Proposal: NJ/Mon

[Habs Halifax]

Hilarious to Habs fans using Ty Smith as an example of incorrectly projecting a young player on small sample size....and then immediately projecting Cole Caufield as a 50 goal scorer.

Smith is older than Caufield and can't even make it as a full time NHL'er yet. Caufield is producing in the NHL.

I do remember the Devils acting like kids when I said Smith is overrated back a few seasons ago. Those WHL stats man... .

 

[Habs Halifax]

Talk about counting your chickens before they've hatched.

Caufield is closer to 40+ goals in the NHL vs Nemec being a top pairing D man.

Over the last 64 games with MSL as our coach, Caufield has 38 goals and 60 pts. He also was very important for us in the last playoff run.

Habs hype on Caufield is more warranted than Devils saying Nemec will be a #1 or #2 guy at the min.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

How? Go see Bob M comments pre draft. You can peg Nemec as a 1st pairing guy if you wish but Habs are not doing that with Slaf (well not all of us). It's likely both are top of the line-up assets but not dominate top line or top pairing studs.

Bob interviews actual scouts and the narrative heading into that draft was they had 2nd tier type potential and a chance one or two is better. You're taking that "chance' to the bank and that's comical cause you would not think twice to throw out a "Habs overrate our prospects" narrative.

Hughes is not double the player Caufield is. Keep dreaming. Better yes but spare me with the exaggeration

I’ve seen all of his comments predraft. Nothing your saying is news or even supports your argument.
There’s often a good chance 1 or 2 are better. That’s usually what happens in any draft without a Mcdavid or Matthews. Yes everyone knows Slafkovsky and Nemec aren’t top tier 1st and 2nd picks but that doesn’t mean they don’t have very realistic top of the lineup potential. Slafkovsky has 1st line potential and Nemec has top pair potential. I’d take Slafkovsky over Caulfield. But that would be close. Even closer IMO with Nemec. Caulfield is better right now and safer but both of those players have the potential to be more impactful. It’s a trade off. Potential for security.

Every fanbase overrated their prospects btw. I’m generally the guy on the devils board knocking down people’s expectations a bit on prospects. Check the Gritsyuk and Casey threads from the last couple days if you want some evidence of that. But Nemec (and Slafkovsky) are two of the best prospects in the game and absolutely have top of the lineup potential. Suggesting Nemec is expected to be a 2nd pair defensmen is laughable. It could happen but that’s not what he projects as. Same with Slafkovsky.

Hughes is absolutely more than double the player Caulfield is. Has a significantly bigger impact on the game and can dominate shifts. You don’t have to like it.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I'm not talking about the J Hughes vs Caufield anymore than this. Hughes is a 1st line center and Caufield is a 1st line winger. Centers have more value. This is where it needs to stop.

Caufield is the best player in that package today. Who knows how that ages but it could go two ways. Not just one way and you know it.

Montreal don't overrate our players any more than Devils or other fan bases do. You know like another poster saying Nemec is a #1 or #2 at a min? That kind of overate? Go look up what Bob said about this past draft and ignore it if you wish

Yes Caufield is the best player in the package today, hence the Devils would be trading 4 assets to land him.
I don't think you understand packages at all, do you expect the Devils to offer Hughes, Nemec, Holtz and 2 1sts so that you can also have the best asset going to Montreal and still getting a package?

Montreal fans are seriously some of the worst fans for overrating their players, this is the same fanbase that though they should get Nemec ++ for Anderson.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Habs hype on Caufield is more warranted than Devils saying Nemec will be a #1 or #2 guy at the min.

Always know someone has no argument when they start making up stuff other people are saying to argue against. Lol who has said Nemec will be a #1 or #2 at the min. Point me in their direction and I’ll help you out. Most people are aware that top pair is no guarentee.

Montreal don't overrate our players any more than Devils or other fan bases do. You know like another poster saying Nemec is a #1 or #2 at a min? That kind of overate? Go look up what Bob said about this past draft and ignore it if you wish

Lmao again would love to see who’s saying this. You keep bringing it up. I haven’t seen it but could’ve missed it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’ve seen all of his comments predraft. Nothing your saying is news or even supports your argument.
There’s often a good chance 1 or 2 are better. That’s usually what happens in any draft without a Mcdavid or Matthews. Yes everyone knows Slafkovsky and Nemec aren’t top tier 1st and 2nd picks but that doesn’t mean they don’t have very realistic top of the lineup potential. Slafkovsky has 1st line potential and Nemec has top pair potential. I’d take Slafkovsky over Caulfield. But that would be close. Even closer IMO with Nemec. Caulfield is better right now and safer but both of those players have the potential to be more impactful. It’s a trade off. Potential for security.

Every fanbase overrated their prospects btw. I’m generally the guy on the devils board knocking down people’s expectations a bit on prospects. Check the Gritsyuk and Casey threads from the last couple days if you want some evidence of that. But Nemec (and Slafkovsky) are two of the best prospects in the game and absolutely have top of the lineup potential. Suggesting Nemec is expected to be a 2nd pair defensmen is laughable. It could happen but that’s not what he projects as. Same with Slafkovsky.

Hughes is absolutely more than double the player Caulfield is. Has a significantly bigger impact on the game and can dominate shifts. You don’t have to like it.

In 3 years time, who is the best player in this package at age 25 and under? I'm not betting against Caufield. You can

 

[Captain3rdLine]

In 3 years time, who is the best player in this package at age 25 and under? I'm not betting against Caufield. You can

There’s a perfectly reasonable chance that Nemec is better or will be better at some point. Might take more than 3 years as a dman. But that’s a fair argument and discussion.
And then you throw in Holtz and 2 1st round picks (2nd half) and there’s a notably better chance that the devils have more value there.

 

[Faceboner]

Value is close but a dumb trade idea nj doesn't need an undersized but very effective goal scorer for their potential number one rd of the future a better idea would be trading holtz for a top six wing with physical ability obviously adds would need to be made

 

[Captain3rdLine]

In 3 years time, who is the best player in this package at age 25 and under? I'm not betting against Caufield. You can



This is actually your quote

Huh how is Nemec likely a 2nd pair D? He just got taken 2nd overall and without a doubt has #1 potential. 2nd pair is probably his realistic floor.

I’m sorry but since when is 2nd pair a #2 D? Me saying that Nemec is more likely than not a 2nd pairing D at worst is very reasonable. There’s this very small chance he completely tanks but with how good of a prospect he is it’s very likely 2nd pair or better. Same with Slafkovsky. He’s realistically gonna be a middle 6/2nd line winger at worst but has a good chance at being more than that.

Nothing unreasonable about that lol. Also never said Nemec would be a #2 at worst.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There’s a perfectly reasonable chance that Nemec is better or will be better at some point. Might take more than 3 years as a dman. But that’s a fair argument and discussion.
And then you throw in Holtz and 2 1st round picks (2nd half) and there’s a notably better chance that the devils have more value there.

A chance is hope. I'm not saying it's impossible and I have said this can age badly in two different directions. As of today, Caufield is producing in the NHL at a very high rate at age 21.

Caufield is the best player on paper today and I would not bet against it cause you have hope Nemec turns into a top pairing quality and Holtz is a top 6F. And for the record, I like all 3 players.

 

[TBF1972]

that though they should get Nemec ++ for Anderson.

obviously anderson has that value. size and grit are the ingredients for long playoff runs.

back to caufield

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’m sorry since when is 2nd pair a #2 D? Me saying that Nemec is more likely than not a 2nd pairing D a worst is very reasonable. There’s this very small chance he completely tanks but with how good of a prospect he is it’s very likely 2nd pair or better. Same with Slafkovsky. He’s realistically gonna be a middle 6 or 2nd line winger at worst but has a good chance at being more than that.

Nothing unreasonable about that lol. Also never said Nemec would be a #2 at worst.

I'm aware of Nemec's potential and track. I followed him a lot pre draft and post draft. I would peg him as someone close to Guhle on the Habs. Solid top 4D who can play at both ends. Doubt Nemec turns into a top pairing stud but you can hope for that. It's not impossible

So you agree Nemec could be a top 4D in the end? If I had to bet money today, I'd say this...

* Caufield is a top line winger and 40+ goal threat
* Nemec is similar to Guhle on the Habs... Solid top 4D at both ends
* Holtz is a top 9F or middle 6F type.
* late 1st rounders are major guesses

 

[Captain3rdLine]

A chance is hope. I'm not saying it's impossible and I have said this can age badly in two different directions. As of today, Caufield is producing in the NHL at a very high rate at age 21.

Caufield is the best player on paper today and I would not bet against it cause you have hope Nemec turns into a top pairing quality and Holtz is a top 6F. And for the record, I like all 3 players.

No shit he’s the best player. Nemec is 18. It’s a trade off. As you said it could go very badly either way. If we were just discussing Nemec and Caulfield that would be fair. If Nemec doesn’t reach his potential Caulfield is more valuable. If Nemec does reach his potential he’s more valuable as a top all situations defensmen.

When you throw in Holtz who has good top 6 potential and 2 first round picks it becomes a significantly titled trade. Because the chances of Nemec, Holtz, and 2 other first rounds pick being more valuable than Caulfield on his own are much better.

If they all hit their potential you would have a #1 D, a good top 6 goalscorer who isn’t far off Caulfield and two other impactful players. Would be on of the worst trades ever. But the then they all could bust too. But that isn’t that likely. I’d say it’s more likely Caulfield falls off then Nemec, Holtz and two other first round picks completely busting.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I'm aware of Nemec's potential and track. I followed him a lot pre draft and post draft. I would peg him as someone close to Guhle on the Habs. Solid top 4D who can play at both ends. Doubt Nemec turns into a top pairing stud but you can hope for that. It's not impossible

So you agree Nemec could be a top 4D in the end? If I had to bet money today, I'd say this...

* Caufield is a top line winger and 40+ goal threat
* Nemec is similar to Guhle on the Habs... Solid top 4D at both ends
* Holtz is a top 9F or middle 6F type.
* late 1st rounders are major guesses

That’s absurd. Comparing Nemec to Guhle is absurd. Nemec is a probably a top 4 D at worst but has reachable top pair potential. I can’t believe I’m having even having this debate. Guhle isn’t on Nemec’s level as a prospect. Nemec has much better potential. That has to be one of the dumbest comparisons I’ve seen on here and there’s lots.

If you asked fans, prospects people and hockey people in general that aren’t habs fans who they’d rather have I would bet my life savings that 99% of them would take Nemec without even blinking. He’s literally one of the best prospects in the game. Guhle is a solid prospect who isn’t on his level talent and potential wise.
That’s genuinely almost as bad as me comparing Holtz to Slafkovsky. (Except Slafkovsky is a bit better than Nemec and Guhle’s better than Holtz at this point)

 

[HugeInTheShire]

No shit he’s the best player. Nemec is 18. It’s a trade off. As you said it could go very badly either way. If we were just discussing Nemec and Caulfield that would be fair. If Nemec doesn’t reach his potential Caulfield is more valuable. If Nemec does reach his potential he’s more valuable as a top all situations defensmen.

When you throw in Holtz who has good top 6 potential and 2 first round picks it becomes a significantly titled trade. Because the chances of Nemec, Holtz, and 2 other first rounds pick being more valuable than Caulfield on his own are much better.

If they all hit their potential you would have a #1 D, a good top 6 goalscorer who isn’t far off Caulfield and two other impactful players. Would be on of the worst trades ever. But the then they all could bust too. But that isn’t that likely. I’d say it’s more likely Caulfield falls off then Nemec, Holtz and two other first round picks completely busting.

He's a lost cause, not that it matters even in the slightest NJ would never offer anywhere close to this package for another undersized forward even if he's a good player.
The league already thinks the Devils are too soft for playoff hockey, adding one of the smallest forwards in the NHL doesn't help that.
It's a massive overpay that Hab fans will try to discredit just because they don't want to admit this offer would easily get Caulfield.

He seriously thinks Nemec couldn't possibly be better than a 3-4 guy, Holtz at best is a middle 6 winger.
He is also apparently a time traveler as he already knows that the Devils will be drafting late, not just in this draft but the next one as well.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

He's a lost cause, not that it matters even in the slightest NJ would never offer anywhere close to this package for another undersized forward even if he's a good player.
The league already thinks the Devils are too soft for playoff hockey, adding one of the smallest forwards in the NHL doesn't help that.
It's a massive overpay that Hab fans will try to discredit just because they don't want to admit this offer would easily get Caulfield.

He seriously thinks Nemec couldn't possibly be better than a 3-4 guy, Holtz at best is a middle 6 winger.
He is also apparently a time traveler as he already knows that the Devils will be drafting late, not just in this draft but the next one as well.

Lmao might be one of the most delusional people I’ve talked to. Just suggested Guhle and Nemec are similar.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Lmao might be one of the most delusional people I’ve talked to. Just suggested Guhle and Nemec are similar.

Ya they aren't close in level at all, Nemec while he still could bust projects way higher than Guhle.

Unless he's trolling, I can't imagine he's being serious.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Ya they aren't close in level at all, Nemec while he still could bust projects way higher than Guhle.

Unless he's trolling, I can't imagine he's being serious.

Unfortunately I think he’s being serious.

 

[Natey]

This is definitely a huge offer. But the Devils 1st rounders being basically 2nd rounders make it less valuable than presented.

Nemec would be amazing and make Slafkovsky and Mesar happy. Caufield being moved would likely piss off our captain beyond belief though.

It would be very hard to turn down, but I think I would.

15 goals in 26 games is pretty good, I'd say

On a team that has three players who can actually put up points, it's incredible actually.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That’s absurd. Comparing Nemec to Guhle is absurd. Nemec is a probably a top 4 D at worst but has reachable top pair potential. I can’t believe I’m having even having this debate. Guhle isn’t on Nemec’s level as a prospect. Nemec has much better potential. That has to be one of the dumbest comparisons I’ve seen on here and there’s lots.

If you asked fans, prospects people and hockey people in general that aren’t habs fans who they’d rather have I would bet my life savings that 99% of them would take Nemec without even blinking. He’s literally one of the best prospects in the game. Guhle is a solid prospect who isn’t on his level talent and potential wise.
That’s genuinely almost as bad as me comparing Holtz to Slafkovsky. (Except Slafkovsky is a bit better than Nemec and Guhle’s better than Holtz at this point)

Nemec and Guhle are a fair comparable. Very good top 4D's with a chance they can be top pairing if everything lines up well for them. You can act disgruntled on this all you want. You're getting caught in the #2 pick trap where in another draft, Nemec goes 5-10 or later.

I don't know who is going to be better... Slaf of Nemec. Your guess is as good as mine. We are banking on hope at the moment.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ya they aren't close in level at all, Nemec while he still could bust projects way higher than Guhle.

Unless he's trolling, I can't imagine he's being serious.

Not according to Bob. Nemec is projected as a top 4D and not sure shot top pairing. He has done nothing since then to change that narrative. And I had Bob's same opinion pre draft. None of them are sure shot top line assets. Possible but not probable.

Guhle is performing to top 4D level at age 20 right now and he stands to improve. Bob says Nemec is a projected top 4D and you are getting all upset that these two are comparable.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Nemec and Guhle are a fair comparable. Very good top 4D's with a chance they can be top pairing if everything lines up well for them. You can act disgruntled on this all you want. You're getting caught in the #2 pick trap where in another draft, Nemec goes 5-10 or later.

I don't know who is going to be better... Slaf of Nemec. Your guess is as good as mine. We are banking on hope at the moment.

You’re incredibly delusional/bias man. Agree that Nemec isn’t #2 in most drafts but he’s still well in the top 10. And he’s still a significantly better D prospect with more potential.

Not according to Bob. Nemec is projected as a top 4D and not sure shot top pairing. He has done nothing since then to change that narrative. And I had Bob's same opinion pre draft. None of them are sure shot top line assets. Possible but not probable.

Guhle is performing to top 4D level at age 20 right now and he stands to improve. Bob says Nemec is a projected top 4D and you are getting all upset that these two are comparable.

What the hell are you talking about. Bob never said that. Stop throwing his name in to support your bs. They aren’t comparable whatsoever.

Guhle is not performing at a top 4 level whatsoever from everything I’ve seen. Have watched 8 MTL games and he wasn’t very good in any. Strong and solid skater who can defend decently but doesn’t look like the smartest and is not a good puck mover right now at all. Also has horrible analytics.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

@Habs Halifax
Stop making bs up to support your points. Bob never said anything that you’ve claimed. No one here ever said Nemec was a #2 at worst.

And as I’m sure 99% of people would agree Guhle is not comparable to Nemec.

No interest in entertaining your absurd claims backed with made up bs anymore.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You’re incredibly delusional/bias man. Agree that Nemec isn’t #2 in most drafts but he’s still well in the top 10. And he’s still a significantly better D prospect with more potential.


What the hell are you talking about. Bob never said that. Stop throwing his name in to support your bs. They aren’t comparable whatsoever.

Guhle is not performing at a top 4 level whatsoever from everything I’ve seen. Have watched 8 MTL games and he wasn’t very good in any. Strong and solid skater who can defend decently but doesn’t look like the smartest and is not a good puck mover right now at all. Also has horrible analytics.

What the hell is Nemec doing in the AHL? Putting up Rasmus Sandin type production at age 18? Wait, he is going to improve cause he is only 18 right? Sure, but Guhle can't improve at age 20 though right? When he is clearly playing heavy min's and top 4D usage in the NHL right now? That's delusional/bias right?

Is Guhle not performing to top 4D level cause you are looking at his points? I seriuosly doubt you have even watched more than 2 games he has played.

11 pts and 1 goal in 27 games and 20+ min a game at age 20. Tell me you wouldn't pump that up if you had this with the Devils? Tell me with a straight face

 

[Chose]

I will add a +1 on all those "both fanbases are crazy" answers.

MAYBE that would bring a Caufield value wise (Not EASILY), but Montreal is not looking for more depth and would say no IMO. There are already too many young players developping and adding lots more picks this year and next.

Its funny how some NJ fans talk about Caufield not proving anything being on a trend of 40+ goals THIS season IN THE NHL, but in the same breath assure Nemec is a top pairing guy while he hasn't played an NHL game yet.

The truth is probably closer with "Caufield projects to be an awesome goalscorer ans is well on its way, Nemec projects to be an awesome top pair RHD and Hugues is already awesome and a better player than Caufield. Ghule is better than projected, but Nemec is projecting to be a better player. But neither team does this trade".

This devaluing is insane.

Nothing agains't the value of the trade, but Montreal isn't trading the 21yo goal scorer they've been looking for and who has solid chemistry with Suzuki. That's all there is to it. Not devaluing the offer, or the value of any of the elements in the proposal. The package does have incredible value. But chances are it will never happen.