Value of: NJ + BOS + SJ
- Thread starter wintersej
- Start date
It’s probably more of a question for SJ fans, tbh.
Obviously Nemec ain’t happening. I know Devils fans love Casey and a juniors tourney played on big ice is only going to raise his profile in fans eyes. 2024 1st with protection? Holtz? Both? Do other guys from SJ like Barbonov or Kunin need to get involved to increase the prospect return?
I don’t have a great read on what SJ would want.
Groo
Registered User
The Devils 2024 1st round pick is already in play for the Sharks. If the Devils makes it to the ECF, as part of the Meiers trade
The biggest piece to San Jose comes from Boston in this framework. At least a 1st and a prospect of merit.
So Boston give up Ullmark, Forbort , 1st and top prospect and NJ gives up nothing? That doesn’t seem right.
John Mandalorian
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One could argue that Hertl and Ullmark are relative equivalents for their position (SJ might argue Hertl has been good a lot longer than Ullmark. Boston could argue the relevance of 7 years ago compared to today.) But positional value is in SJs favor. So an add by Boston seems appropriate. But what he described was too much. A first or equivalent prospect seems appropriate from Boston (not a first AND a prospect).
But the rest of the picks/prospects should be coming from NJ and going to SJ.
Compliments on the trade idea. Hertl to Boston makes sense based on the Pastrnak connection. The motivation for NJ is there. The biggest potential snag is whether SJ feels it receives enough once NJ decides what they’re willing to give up.
This would be an off season trade if the Bruins perform poorly in the playoffs. I think you could just do a Hertl to Boston trade and remove NJ from it.
1st, prospect, roster player (for cap) is the decent base of a deal. I'm sure the Bruins wouldn't want to give up Lysell but if they got their man C for the next half decade, it'd make sense.
1st, prospect, roster player (for cap) is the decent base of a deal. I'm sure the Bruins wouldn't want to give up Lysell but if they got their man C for the next half decade, it'd make sense.
Come off-season Bruins won’t need to send any salary back.
It’s obvious Boston will give SJ a call this summer, but...
Reasons for Boston doing it now:
1. Potentially will get better value for Ullmark right now with so many teams regretting not getting a goalie this offseason.
2. If you are going to pay Swayman like a top 5 goalie this summer, you better get a preview of him playing more than 50% of the games.
3. Morgan Geekie is currently acting as the Bruins #1C
I assumed it would be NJD 1st or Holtz, B prospect from NJD, another add from Boston that was more valuable than the B prospect but less so than the 1st/Holtz to SJ.
John Mandalorian
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Giving up Lysell is not a problem for me but the first makes me hesitant.
Jerzey Devil
Jerzey-Duz-It
Daws has looked pretty good since being called up. Not saying he’s playoff ready (who knows?) but the desperation for NJ to trade for a goalie might not be as high anymore.
and what does new jersey gain with forbort?
i don't know his exact status, but forbort is listed in capfriendly on ltir. so i assume he is there for cap purpose. i don't think you should list him as a positive asset in a trade proposal.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
Boston gets the best piece here. A 1C, which will cost more than Ullmark so surely add a 1st. New Jersey would need to add something pretty significant.
I'd say Holtz + lottery protected 1st would make sense. Or a 2025 1st lottery protected given NJ isn't playing so well this season. The idea is the NJ pick conveys in the 20s overall so not that great a 1st rounder.
Then you have Hertl moving for two late 1st rounders + a so-so prospect in Holtz. San Jose should make that type of deal for rebuilding purposes. But dang would they suck something awful for a spell.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
Moving Hertl is almost certainly going to be an offseason deal if it gets done. I don't think they're going to want to move Hertl in-season while he's helping to develop William Eklund. If it looks like the Sharks will get the top pick and land Celebrini then I think a move can be made then but only if there's no retention. Under such circumstances, I don't foresee it to be too costly to get something done but it's also not going to be a very enticing deal for the Sharks. Neither Boston nor New Jersey have expendable future assets. They're either too good to give up or the equivalent to a 1st round pick of a playoff team.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
The devils should be just as....hungry...for a goalie as they have been. 2 games from Daws certainly isn't enough to chance that, especially when he was mostly just okay yesterday. Not to mention that he's coming off a hip injury and it would be a heck of a gamble to assume that he's just going to hold up the entire year from here on out and not get fatigued.
Vitek is still the 1a and he's still a hot mess of awful suckiness. He's sporting a sub .880 over his last 10 games and an .880 exactly over his last five.
Desperate is probably not the word to use just because I don't know that Fitz is ever desperate about anything, but absolutely nothing should change about the Devils' need to add a goalie.
Not sure I'd call Holtz a "so-so" prospect. He's still a 21-year old former 7th overall pick that seems to be finding his game rather nicely now, though I understand many impatient fans already think the book has been written on him.
Giving up Holtz and another 1st round pick (the '24 first rounder is still in play for San Jose if NJ makes it to the ECF this season) for a depth defenseman and goalie that has struggled in the playoffs seems like a rather short-sighted move for a young team just getting started on being Cup contenders.
NJ needs to make a move in net. This is just one they could make. There are other goalies available. Boston should hold out here for a nice return because it's not a trade they need to make just yet. They are doing fine in 1st place. NJ is the squad on the outside looking in... so their motivation is different than Boston's. It's more acute. I always factor in leverage and circumstance when I consider value in trade. We all should. It's what drives returns.
I'd target John Gibson. He has nights where he is so incredible on such a bad team. I don't think he'd cost as much either.
Let Boston work out a separate deal for Hertl directly. 3 way trades are too complicated. NJ getting a goalie and Boston getting a 1C can be solved for both teams trading one to one with a particular club that will be seeking futures or prospects.
I'd label Holtz a B+ prospect. So-so was a little harsh. He's higher end than that. But he's not a A prospect anymore either.
Yeah, I don't disagree that NJ probably should make a move in net as I don't trust any of Vanecek, Daws or Schmid to start a playoff series at the moment. That being said, it appears that the current acquisition cost for a goalie is sky high as the demand of teams like the Hurricanes, Oilers, Devils and Maple Leafs outpaces the supply of goalie upgrades, which is why no moves have been made so far. I expect as we approach the TDL that will change. I don't think the Devils are as desperate as the other 3 teams listed though - each of which are much, much further along in their contention windows.
Gibson would seem to make more sense for NJ as they could likely absorb a good chunk if not all of his salary to lessen the acquisition cost given Hamilton's injury opens up a ton of cap space this season. Boston has little incentive to move Ullmark unless it's for a clear upgrade at center.
He will be back. He is there to give them vet depth and, more importantly, help out on their very bad PK.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
The Devils could use Ullmark, but this trade is about Boston acquiring Hertl.
It's a creative idea and workable framework, but the Bruins are grabbing a 1C and the Devils are helping to make the money work. I'd kick in a B prospect and mid-round pick, but the bulk of the return has to come from Boston.
Boston isn't giving up Ullmark for a B prospect and a mid round pick. Bruins can wait until offseason to grab Hertl if Devils won't pay value for Ullmark.
