Player Discussion: Nikolaj Ehlers

[DashingDane]

I get the sensativity but...

it's.
been.
one.
game.

if this continues for the next 10-12 games, i absolutely understand where danish and ehlers fans and jets fan's in general will be coming from with their concern.

but really, it's been one game. Preseason counts for nothing. those are not games. those are practices.

unless you feel this issue started last year and is continuing? I don't recall seeing much in the way of misuse last season IMO

I get your point and definitely agree that one game doesn't constitute a trend. Aka there is a good chance we are overreacting. I'm guessing the reason is because a lot of us had issues with the TOI distribution last season as well. Most players outside of that top line has actually seen their ATOI drop from two years ago to last season. A lot of that can be explained with the team getting better of course and that is definitely a valid point. We also can't ague with the results! I get that 1st lines play more than the rest but based off last season they are playing around 4 min more per game. That seems high to me but I could be wrong.

My problem is more so the signal it sends to the rest of the team and the sustainability of that approach. You will have a hard time finding any players in the league that produced as much as Ehlers and Laine with as little ATOI. Yet that is being rewarded with less playing time. I don't think that is a sustainable approach if you want to keep your best young players around in the long term. It would be like you preforming better at work but getting less and less responsibility. Personally it wouldn't take long before I started looking elsewhere.

In Ehlers case I think some of us (at least me) are a bit bitter in terms of opportunity handed to Connor vs Ehlers. I'm sure some of that is our inherent bias/affinity towards someone from our country but I also think there is some truth to it. Nikky has preformed as well as Connor did last season every time he has gotten the chance on the 1st line but has always been bumped down for some reason. Connor on the other hand, pretty much walked right in to that situation at Ehlers expense. He has only been moved off for a handful of games though most metrics point to Ehlers being the more impactful player. An argument could be spreading the talent which would be fair if the TOI followed... It hasn't. I think the likely reason is that Chef and Wheels prefer to play with Connor and because they are leadership they get their way. That's also fair to some extent but certainly validates the thesis that one player is being handed more opportunity than the other regardless of how they are preforming.

Sorry, that was long... Not all relevant to your post but I started writing and couldn't stop lol.

 

[Tommigun]

There is no doubt that both are more offence minded players - they probably receive a more wiggle room based on their effectiveness on offence and their tenure.
Not saying it's right - but that might be why it is.

That definitely is it. And they are effective as hell so why not?

 

[Tommigun]

I also find it a bit weird when people are talking about spreading out the scoring (which I personally do believe in), but in the same sentence say that CSW can’t be broken up (and especially not Scheifele+Wheeler).

 

[Trinity]

I also find it a bit weird when people are talking about spreading out the scoring (which I personally do believe in), but in the same sentence say that CSW can’t be broken up (and especially not Scheifele+Wheeler).

Scheifele and Wheeler call the shots on the team...Maurice is not going to contradict their wishes.

 

[Tommigun]

Scheifele and Wheeler call the shots on the team...Maurice is not going to contradict their wishes.

I don’t think I believe in this. I have respect for Wheeler and don’t think he’s forcing Maurice’s hand just so he can play with Scheifele/first line minutes, in case other lines needed him as a driver and it benefited the team. He’s the captain and I do believe he puts the team first.

 

[Trinity]

I don’t think I believe in this. I have respect for Wheeler and don’t think he’s forcing Maurice’s hand just so he can play with Scheifele/first line minutes, in case other lines needed him as a driver and it benefited the team. He’s the captain and I do believe he puts the team first.

I don't think Wheeler is "forcing" anything either. It's just Maurice probably tries to accommodate his captain and best player's (Scheifele) wishes.

 

[kcin94]

So why is he getting 4th line minutes?
I appreciate the fact that you don't agree with my post but it would be nice if you could provide your own take on why he's on the 4th.
The only opinion I seem to be hearing on this board is that Maurice is an idiot and doesn't see what everyone else is clearly seeing.
I'm in the camp that feels Maurice is doing a good job and he's moved Nic down for reasons. I gave you what I thought were the possible reasons.

Could it be that the reasons are that the two lines worked better in the preseason as they were. It's possible this is a team whose performance as a whole is more important than the performance of an individual. As the game went on Maurice tried to rotate Ehlers in to get more minutes and our lack of PP2 time limited his minutes as well.

I think way to many people are reading too much into one game, and not even the whole game. By the end of the game, Ehlers was with Little and Liane and Perreault was with Roslo and Ves.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

i could see a rotating star on the fourth throughout the season. give them a break from the heavy minutes.

 

[JetsFan815]

I get your point and definitely agree that one game doesn't constitute a trend. Aka there is a good chance we are overreacting. I'm guessing the reason is because a lot of us had issues with the TOI distribution last season as well. Most players outside of that top line has actually seen their ATOI drop from two years ago to last season. A lot of that can be explained with the team getting better of course and that is definitely a valid point. We also can't ague with the results! I get that 1st lines play more than the rest but based off last season they are playing around 4 min more per game. That seems high to me but I could be wrong.

My problem is more so the signal it sends to the rest of the team and the sustainability of that approach. You will have a hard time finding any players in the league that produced as much as Ehlers and Laine with as little ATOI. Yet that is being rewarded with less playing time. I don't think that is a sustainable approach if you want to keep your best young players around in the long term. It would be like you preforming better at work but getting less and less responsibility. Personally it wouldn't take long before I started looking elsewhere.

In Ehlers case I think some of us (at least me) are a bit bitter in terms of opportunity handed to Connor vs Ehlers. I'm sure some of that is our inherent bias/affinity towards someone from our country but I also think there is some truth to it. Nikky has preformed as well as Connor did last season every time he has gotten the chance on the 1st line but has always been bumped down for some reason. Connor on the other hand, pretty much walked right in to that situation at Ehlers expense. He has only been moved off for a handful of games though most metrics point to Ehlers being the more impactful player. An argument could be spreading the talent which would be fair if the TOI followed... It hasn't. I think the likely reason is
that Chef and Wheels prefer to play with Connor and because they are leadership they get their way. That's also fair to some extent but certainly validates the thesis that one player is being handed more opportunity than the other regardless of how they are preforming.

Sorry, that was long... Not all relevant to your post but I started writing and couldn't stop lol.

Connor's ice-time is not too out of line with Laine and Ehlers,

2017 Season:

Connor: 16:54
Ehlers: 16:28
Laine: 16:04

Moreover that is very much in line with what "star young players" on the Leafs play, a team with similarly deep forward corps.

Nylander: 16:41
Marner: 16:23

Scheifele and Wheeler's numbers are heavily inflated by playing on the PK. Maybe Maurice should consider putting Ehlers on the PK...

The reason we see guys like Ehlers and Perreault playing on that 4th line is that these guys are capable of driving a line in a way that I don't see Connor or Laine doing at this stage of their career. If it was Laine or Connor playing on that Roslovic line, I would have almost no hope for that line. With Ehlers, he can get them into the offensive zone from where they can do their thing.

It is also ridiculous to suggest that Scheif/Wheeler are forcing the coach's hand to play Connor on their line. Connor was taken off that line a couple of times last season and quickly earned his way back up with great play. The reality here is that Laine and Connor need to be carried by veteran players to some extent as there are holes in certain parts of their games, whereas many fans and presumably Maurice believes that Ehlers is a guy capable of being a Scheifele/Wheeler and carrying other guys on his line.

 

[JetsFan815]

I also find it a bit weird when people are talking about spreading out the scoring (which I personally do believe in), but in the same sentence say that CSW can’t be broken up (and especially not Scheifele+Wheeler).

I don't think anyone is opposed to breaking up CSW, just that you are going to be hard pressed to have an NHL coach make sweeping changes to the lineup when the team is winning and lots of goals are being scored.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't think anyone on that line is defensively conscious to any degree - they are all working on that part of their game in an effort to be better all around players.
Maybe the issue isn't necessarily his defensive game but more to do with his over all game.
Ehlers is highly skilled - but I doubt he's spent much of his career working on the part of his game where he doesn't have the puck. I believe Maurice is trying to help him with that.

Yeah, sorry I disagree Ehlers is playing on that line as some of punishment or to learn to play a more responsible two way game. As @Grind points out, he's largely there to help drive that line out of its own zone, he's much better at that than you give him credit for.

Learning some more responsibility might be a byproduct of his role but I don't think it's the goal. Personally I think it's more about balancing the lines, seeing whether he can achieve 3 true scoring lines while keeping CLT together.

 

[DashingDane]

Connor's ice-time is not too out of line with Laine and Ehlers,

2017 Season:

Connor: 16:54
Ehlers: 16:28
Laine: 16:04

Moreover that is very much in line with what "star young players" on the Leafs play, a team with similarly deep forward corps.

Nylander: 16:41
Marner: 16:23

Scheifele and Wheeler's numbers are heavily inflated by playing on the PK. Maybe Maurice should consider putting Ehlers on the PK...

The reason we see guys like Ehlers and Perreault playing on that 4th line is that these guys are capable of driving a line in a way that I don't see Connor or Laine doing at this stage of their career. If it was Laine or Connor playing on that Roslovic line, I would have almost no hope for that line. With Ehlers, he can get them into the offensive zone from where they can do their thing.

It is also ridiculous to suggest that Scheif/Wheeler are forcing the coach's hand to play Connor on their line. Connor was taken off that line a couple of times last season and quickly earned his way back up with great play. The reality here is that Laine and Connor need to be carried by veteran players to some extent as there are holes in certain parts of their games, whereas many fans and presumably Maurice believes that Ehlers is a guy capable of being a Scheifele/Wheeler and carrying other guys on his line.

Swap Ehlers and Laine's TOI and it is correct... Connors TOI was also impacted when his pp1 time was taken away and given to Statsny. Couldn't care less what the Leafs are doing... I think when players are putting up 1st line performances with 16 min of play it is reasonable to play them more, but that's just me...

I agree Ehlers is more of a driver than Laine/Connor (outside of last night where they both drove their lines imo). I disagree that Ehlers is enough of a driver to support a rookie and a first time NHL center with minimal toi though. I think Frenchie would be more successful in that role but then you are waisting him too imo. I don't know that there is a good solution but so far I haven't heard any reasoning that makes perfect sense for me.

At no point did I suggest Wheeler and Scheif forced anything. I very intentionally wrote prefer. I think it is a question of PoMo not having the balls to separate them out of fear of loosing the leadership and as a result his job. I've got zero issue with any of the players really. It's PoMo and how he is managing his assets I have issues with.

 

[DashingDane]

I should also mention that this isn't only a result of last nights game. Sure that emphasized it and made the cup flow over but we also talked about it last season and this off season. Heck @AstrophysicalJet and I have a whole private thread where we've been talking about this for ages

 

[PhilJets]

I can give you a realistic view.

Wheeler and Buff are much more important for this team than Ehlers and aren't going to be traded in the next couple of years.

Trouba, if he is traded, will be needed to be replaced with someone close to his talent and that will cost money. Be it Trouba or someone else.

Little is still a decent hockey player but has a massive contract into his post prime. It would be a very hard task to find a trading partner for Little.

Kulikov is capdump at this point. They might pay some other team to take him or just wait for those 2 years remaining in his contract.

Myers will be let to walk in to free agency.

Perreault is still a decent player and the fact that he only has 3 years remaining in his contract means he has some value left and most likely will be traded before his contract runs out.

So realistically from those players you mentioned Jets can only trade/let go Myers, Perreault and Kulikov and I don't think that is enough to fix cap for the next 3 years. That means someone else has to leave and when you think about it Ehlers is pretty high on that list.

Ehlers is high on your list.
Who trades their 22 yrs old top 10 left wing than can be plug in any line , 1 to 4? Can play left and right. Outproduce everybody in this high octain team except for 54 29 26.
While you can move 18 other players before him to clear cap.

I understand about Wheeler and buff (this year). They can be immovable.
But after this year, dynamics can change for the team and for those 2.

After this year. If we have to choose who the 1st top 5 core we keep going forward?


Easy
Helly
Laine
Schiefele
Morrissey
Ehlers

Why those 3 forwards.
1st they are your 3 best offensive weapon.
2nd 2 of them are in a great cap hit
3rd each of them will drive their own line. 1,2,3

The sixth man is Adam lowry. He drives the remaining line.

But yeah Ehlers is pretty valuable.

Hoping he gets his minutes up and their line clicks.

 

[Weezeric]

I don't think anyone is opposed to breaking up CSW, just that you are going to be hard pressed to have an NHL coach make sweeping changes to the lineup when the team is winning and lots of goals are being scored.

It’s funny how for the first couple years Maurice was bashed for making too many changes to lines too quickly. Now, he’s viewed as totally unchangeable.

The Jets didn’t lose more than 2 games in a row last season. No coach is going to make huge changes when a team is so consistent.

 

[PhilJets]

The Jets didn’t lose more than 2 games in a row last season. No coach is going to make huge changes when a team is so consistent.

Im just quoting the bolded only.

Jets lost 4 in a row and it hurts so bad as it happened at the end of the year

 

[LowLefty]

Yeah, sorry I disagree Ehlers is playing on that line as some of punishment or to learn to play a more responsible two way game. As @Grind points out, he's largely there to help drive that line out of its own zone, he's much better at that than you give him credit for.

Learning some more responsibility might be a byproduct of his role but I don't think it's the goal. Personally I think it's more about balancing the lines, seeing whether he can achieve 3 true scoring lines while keeping CLT together.

What are you disagreeing with -
I stated he's likely there to learn and Maurice is driving that.
As for driving a line, I made no mention of his ability in that capacity so I guess you could say I'm not giving him much credit

 

[DashingDane]

It’s funny how for the first couple years Maurice was bashed for making too many changes to lines too quickly. Now, he’s viewed as totally unchangeable.

The Jets didn’t lose more than 2 games in a row last season. No coach is going to make huge changes when a team is so consistent.

That's a great point!.. I consider last year PoMo's first year of not over shuffling. I was was one of the complainers before and it turns out I still am But in my defense he did shuffle my favorite player down to the 4th line

 

[PhilJets]

I think Ehlers will be playing LD by mid season besides Buff the way its going

That should give him more minutes
He couldnt be any worst that Morrow and Chairot? Can he....


Please please dont propose to trade Nik.

My kid is named after him......

 

[Ducky10]

What are you disagreeing with -
I stated he's likely there to learn and Maurice is driving that.
As for driving a line, I made no mention of his ability in that capacity so I guess you could say I'm not giving him much credit

I'm disagreeing with your assertion that Ehlers is on that line because he needs to work on his overall game, his defensive one in particular.

 

[DashingDane]

I think Ehlers will be playing LD by mid season besides Buff the way its going

That should give him more minutes
He couldnt be any worst that Morrow and Chairot? Can he....


Please please dont propose to trade Nik.

My kid is named after him......

I wouldn't be opposed to it with the lack of faith I have in our left side (JoMo excluded) . He has the speed and clapper to do it but if you think people are complaining about his defensive abilities now could you imagine the fan reaction if he was a defender

 

[PhilJets]

In conclusion:

1)We all love Nik
2)He is in the 4th line not because he sucks, but because he is the most versitile forward we have and he can drive that line without dismantling CSW and CLT.
3) Maurice needs to find him minutes. And in the presser Maurice mentioned that.


Go Ehlers...


This argument about Ehlers is not hot take or bs. Its a good argument and they are all valid argument. Both sides.

The best thing about it is Jets won 5 - 1 yesterday.

 

[DashingDane]

In conclusion:

1)We all love Nik
2)He is in the 4th line not because he sucks, but because he is the most versitile forward we have and he can drive that line without dismantling CSW and CLT.
3) Maurice needs to find him minutes. And in the presser Maurice mentioned that.


Go Ehlers...


This argument about Ehlers is not hot take or bs. Its a good argument and they are all valid argument. Both sides.

The best thing about it is Jets won 5 - 1 yesterday.

Bolded is the only thing that matters really! The organization should do whatever they think puts the team in the best possible situation to win a cup. Regardless of that meaning they loose a couple of good players in the process..

I happen to think they could win and make people happy but enough of that. At least until tomorrow and a toi repeat

 

[LowLefty]

I'm disagreeing with your assertion that Ehlers is on that line because he needs to work on his overall game, his defensive one in particular.

You could be right -
I know in the past he's moved players down (Ehlers and Laine as examples) usually as a reminder to pay a little more attention to other aspects of the game.
His motive could be different this time - who knows. But we all know Maurice preaches a complete game and this smells a bit like a situation where he might be working on Ehlers a bit.
I doubt the plan is to move him there as a line driver at less than 10 minutes a game (at his salary).
Look forward to see if this lasts and if the minutes increase

 

[Ducky10]

It’s funny how for the first couple years Maurice was bashed for making too many changes to lines too quickly. Now, he’s viewed as totally unchangeable.

The Jets didn’t lose more than 2 games in a row last season. No coach is going to make huge changes when a team is so consistent.

Exactly this, Maurice's only concern is winning hockey games, his lineup accomplished that better than 29 other teams last year. There is no catalyst for breaking up CSW, he's not keeping it together out of some fear of losing the room, or doing his buddy Wheeler a favour. He's doing it because it's been winning hockey games at a really good rate.

If that stops being the case, let's see what he does.