Value of: Nikolaj Ehlers to the Canucks

[Rydgar]

Garland is worth more to the Canucks, because of his chemistry on the third line, than he is in trade value. Even if Ehlers is the better player, I'm not sure the Canucks get any better.

Canucks don't really have any other contracts they could move to make sense for an Ehlers trade other than Boeser.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Garland is worth more to the Canucks, because of his chemistry on the third line, than he is in trade value. Even if Ehlers is the better player, I'm not sure the Canucks get any better.

Canucks don't really have any other contracts they could move to make sense for an Ehlers trade other than Boeser.

Boeser is likely extended at some point this season. Wether it being healthy or Tochett, his game reached another level last season and he was our best forwards in the playoffs.

 

[Qwijibo]

And the idea of losing him for nothing doesn't bother you?

I'm just saying if you're maybe on the outside of the playoffs but in with a chance are you going to let the asset play out and get nothing for him? It'll be a tough call. And I don't think you'll get a ready made fwd much better than Garland for Ehlers just looking around the league of him would make the move for a rental.

I never understand this argument. Like Winnipegs only two options are trade Ehlers for Garland or lose him for nothing. Like no other team could possibly present an attractive alternative.

 

[Johnsie19]

If you think Garland and Ehlers are both middle 6 players there is nothing to be discussed as we are in complete disagreement. Ehlers is totally a top 6 player. You want him to play with Petey.
Ehlers is one of the top line drivers in the league. No one is lining up to play Garland with team’s best.
Jets are not thinking who can we trade to get Garland. People are asking how can we get Ehlers and if you really believed they were interchangeable a) you wouldn’t have come up with a proposal b) you are not offering to add a 2nd to get a player that’s interchangeable.

The wording is just all wrong. Ehlers is the 4th best fwd on the Jets (probably?) that's 2nd line, his minutes played put him as a 3rd line player however. Garland also plays low minutes and is also the Canucks 4th best fwd. He is a 2nd liner by basically any statistical measure besides raw toi. So we are talking about similar players in terms of output.

Ehlers is more productive offensively without question. The numbers are there to see. But the gap isn't crazy. Garland also drives play at an extremely high level.

You are talking about trading Ehlers for Marner. That is way more obtuse.

True in this trade the Canucks want Ehlers but the idea behind proposing it has to do with the fact Ehlers is a UFA to be, and the Jets might be competitive this yr. This would be a slight move backwards in terms of on ice output, but you'd get an extra yr, lower aav, and 2 futures.

Any other deal is likely going to be purely futures.

If we were on the bubble near the deadline it would probably be a tougher choice, but if we're #3 or higher in the division and playing well I'd be fine losing him to UFA and keeping him as a rental

Very fair

 

[Johnsie19]

I never understand this argument. Like Winnipegs only two options are trade Ehlers for Garland or lose him for nothing. Like no other team could possibly present an attractive alternative.

What makes you think those are the only two options? You're being willfully ignorant if you think that's what I am saying. Now that doesn't mean that those aren't market forces. Things to consider. Of course you can trade him for futures as well. But that becomes tough if you are wanting to compete this yr. In terms of getting a player back, not many teams make trades that include top 6 players out, especially when the one potentially coming in (Ehlers) isn't a top line all star type guy.

 

[Qwijibo]

What makes you think those are the only two options? You're being willfully ignorant if you think that's what I am saying. Now that doesn't mean that those aren't market forces. Things to consider. Of course you can trade him for futures as well. But that becomes tough if you are wanting to compete this yr. In terms of getting a player back, not many teams make trades that include top 6 players out, especially when the one potentially coming in (Ehlers) isn't a top line all star type guy.

You suggested that they should trade for Garland and when you met with a lukewarm response you came back with "are you OK with losing him for nothing?" I'm.saying there are most likely far better alternatives to either of those options. That Saud it's not unheard of fir a teamnthst believes they're a cup contender to retain one if thier expiring ufa's as an own rental. If I'm Winnipeg I keep Ehlers over taking a disappointing return

 

[Adam da bomb]

The wording is just all wrong. Ehlers is the 4th best fwd on the Jets (probably?) that's 2nd line, his minutes played put him as a 3rd line player however. Garland also plays low minutes and is also the Canucks 4th best fwd. He is a 2nd liner by basically any statistical measure besides raw toi. So we are talking about similar players in terms of output.

Ehlers is more productive offensively without question. The numbers are there to see. But the gap isn't crazy. Garland also drives play at an extremely high level.

You are talking about trading Ehlers for Marner. That is way more obtuse.

True in this trade the Canucks want Ehlers but the idea behind proposing it has to do with the fact Ehlers is a UFA to be, and the Jets might be competitive this yr. This would be a slight move backwards in terms of on ice output, but you'd get an extra yr, lower aav, and 2 futures.

Any other deal is likely going to be purely futures.


Very fair

I only brought up Marner as I was trying to play your theoretical game. Also, TO may trade Marner for less to get the cap. Jets just gained a bunch of cap space losing Dillion, mono, tofolli.

Many ppl would argue Ehlers is our 2nd best forward. They separated ehlers and schief to each drive a line. At worst he is jets 3rd worst forward if you put Connor ahead of him. We hope the new coach will put him in a better position to succeed.

That means to us he is closer to trading Boeser than Garland.

Once again if it’s not that far apart why is Vancouver doing the Jets a favour? After all your argument is all benefiting jets. For a slight upgrade?
They are trading the cheaper player signed for longer and tossing in 2 futures. Only reason they do it is for a significant upgrade.

I’d feel better if you just said jets have no choice, they will lose any deal for ehlers so they may as well as bend over and take it.
If we actually had a choice,
I’d prefer to trade Ehlers for a d. We have better forward prospects in chin and Lambert.

I think in this scenario jets still get confident they can resign him, did it with Helly and Schief. They promise him a bigger role and they give him an overpay rather than trading for garland.

 

[Xirik]

Isn't Ehlers a very "soft" player? does Vancouver enjoy collecting those types of players or what?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Isn't Ehlers a very "soft" player? does Vancouver enjoy collecting those types of players or what?

Not really. He can play with some sandpaper and be an agitator.

 

[hn777]

Isn't Ehlers a very "soft" player? does Vancouver enjoy collecting those types of players or what?

He is tough as nails. You may confuse him with Kyle Connor?

 

[Johnsie19]

You suggested that they should trade for Garland and when you met with a lukewarm response you came back with "are you OK with losing him for nothing?" I'm.saying there are most likely far better alternatives to either of those options. That Saud it's not unheard of fir a teamnthst believes they're a cup contender to retain one if thier expiring ufa's as an own rental. If I'm Winnipeg I keep Ehlers over taking a disappointing return

Absolutely you can hang onto him if you are in a division title race or something. One scenario I've mentioned is the Jets are in and around the last playoff spot, not sure they'll make it at trade deadline or they know that they wont be resigning Ehlers early enough in the season that they make a trade. I've made the case that it's a good return, many Canucks fans chiming in they wouldn't want to do it tells you something about how highly Garland is thought of in Van. The alternative trade proposals I'm hearing aren't realistic in my mind but we'll see. At any rate I've made my case. We all want to level up.

 

[Johnsie19]

I only brought up Marner as I was trying to play your theoretical game. Also, TO may trade Marner for less to get the cap. Jets just gained a bunch of cap space losing Dillion, mono, tofolli.

Many ppl would argue Ehlers is our 2nd best forward. They separated ehlers and schief to each drive a line. At worst he is jets 3rd worst forward if you put Connor ahead of him. We hope the new coach will put him in a better position to succeed.

That means to us he is closer to trading Boeser than Garland.

Once again if it’s not that far apart why is Vancouver doing the Jets a favour? After all your argument is all benefiting jets. For a slight upgrade?
They are trading the cheaper player signed for longer and tossing in 2 futures. Only reason they do it is for a significant upgrade.

I’d feel better if you just said jets have no choice, they will lose any deal for ehlers so they may as well as bend over and take it.
If we actually had a choice,
I’d prefer to trade Ehlers for a d. We have better forward prospects in chin and Lambert.

I think in this scenario jets still get confident they can resign him, did it with Helly and Schief. They promise him a bigger role and they give him an overpay rather than trading for garland.

The point of the theoretical game is picking players whos profiles, contract situations, availability make sense. Marner is also a UFA next summer so how is that a good option when it's the only reason Ehlers is being discussed in any trades.

Fair enough ya he's probably 3rd best fwd.

Theres a thing on here where when you take a certain side of an argument and try and sell the other team why it's a good proposal, it somehow comes across like "well why are you doing us a favour then". I'm just arguing the side I feel you're not considering fully.

Ehlers is a better player. He might be able to play top line (underlying numbers are good but he never really has). Canucks might have a better chance at signing him long term. Canucks would be getting the best player in the deal. And Jets would be getting a slightly lesser. but really good fwd and some futures.

A scenario I've suggested as well is one where the Jets are in a playoff contention but not sure they'll make it at the deadline and they make a lateral trade to maximize an asset. You'd be slightly worse this yr and next yr you'd have Garland and two prospects instead of nothing.

Trading purely for futures might appeal to some but if you're in a playoff race it's not a popular or viable option. If you want dmen for him it's the same thing as a Garland trade. Who's giving a top d man for a winger rental?

If they think they can resign him they probably will youre right.