Value of: Nikolaj Ehlers to the Canucks

[Flair Hay]

The Jets already have a dominant 3rd line, they need more top end talent. Ehlers is one of their top 3 forwards, need and could get more in return for sure

In hindsight Garland would have been a better pickup than Toffoli by far and maybe even Monahan... missed opportunity for sure!

 

[Johnsie19]

The Jets already have a dominant 3rd line, they need more top end talent. Ehlers is one of their top 3 forwards, need and could get more in return for sure

in a futures package probably yes. In a win now package probably Garland + 2nd + prospect is pretty good.

 

[Freaky Styley]

The guy we are talking about trading for in Ehlers is tied for 193/32 = 6.032 So he is also a third liner according to that logic hahah.

He was 122 in points. 122/32 = 3.8. 86th for even strength points 86/32 = 2.6

You do understand that the lower the number the better right? Your 6.032 rounds to 6 and basically means that he's top 6 on any team.. which was exactly my point. The big knock and attraction around Ehlers is that he has been underused on the Jets and has more to give.

You asked for substance I gave you substance. We both agree that Garland is important to Vancouver my point was that he's not a top 6 player and won't be treated like one on the trade market. He's got more value to the team than on the market and the Jets can do a lot better than getting him as a main piece in a deal. Case closed.

in a futures package probably yes. In a win now package probably Garland + 2nd + prospect is pretty good.

In a win now package getting futures is still best. You can flip the 1st+ from Ehlers into a better asset than Garland

 

[nowhereman]

Not sure why Canucks fans throw Garland into all these trades, considering how good he's proven himself to be. The numbers certainly don't tell the whole story with him. And to scoff at the notion of him being involved in a trade for Ehlers, an undersized winger who disappears every post-season, is an odd take. Any trade for Ehlers has the receiving team hoping he can have a Kessel-lite turnaround in the post-season.

 

[ameselare]

Not sure why Canucks fans throw Garland into all these trades, considering how good he's proven himself to be. The numbers certainly don't tell the whole story with him.

Because he makes $4.95M, typically plays on the 3rd line (even if the 3rd line was more like the 2nd line at many points of this most recent season), and was part of the OEL trade. I think a lot of it is emotional.

 

[GOilers88]

I love how "undersized wingers" has become the new dig at players, regardless of how effective they are.

Fair enough if you don't like the deal, but Garland is getting seriously undervalued here. Pretty sure most teams in the league would love to have him on their roster. Beauty player.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

I love how "undersized wingers" has become the new dig at players, regardless of how effective they are.

Fair enough if you don't like the deal, but Garland is getting seriously undervalued here. Pretty sure most teams in the league would love to have him on their roster. Beauty player.

I completely agree with the bolded part of your comment. The Jets have a 6'6 defenseman who isn't all that physical and aggressive but rarely gets called out by the fans who worry about players being under 6'2.
I think Garland is a great player and I would have loved for the Jets to have picked him up at the beginning of last season, when there was rumors of him being shopped. I also see Garland as an effective middle 6 player. The Canucks are my 2nd favourite team, and I'd be happy to see Ehlers play for the Canucks but as a fan of the Jets first, I'd want full value + for him in a trade.

 

[GOilers88]

I completely agree with the bolded part of your comment. The Jets have a 6'6 defenseman who isn't all that physical and aggressive but rarely gets called out by the fans who worry about players being under 6'2.
I think Garland is a great player and I would have loved for the Jets to have picked him up at the beginning of last season, when there was rumors of him being shopped. I also see Garland as an effective middle 6 player. The Canucks are my 2nd favourite team, and I'd be happy to see Ehlers play for the Canucks but as a fan of the Jets first, I'd want full value + for him in a trade.

Could absolutely understand Jets fans looking for more. Always been a fan of Ehlers.

 

[Johnsie19]

You do understand that the lower the number the better right? Your 6.032 rounds to 6 and basically means that he's top 6 on any team.. which was exactly my point. The big knock and attraction around Ehlers is that he has been underused on the Jets and has more to give.

You asked for substance I gave you substance. We both agree that Garland is important to Vancouver my point was that he's not a top 6 player and won't be treated like one on the trade market. He's got more value to the team than on the market and the Jets can do a lot better than getting him as a main piece in a deal. Case closed.


In a win now package getting futures is still best. You can flip the 1st+ from Ehlers into a better asset than Garland

Sorry that may have been slightly confusing the 2nd numbers were Garland (3.8 points, 2.6 5v5 points)

And you don't round down in the case Ehlers 6.032. 32x6 is 192. He's 193. But obviously the specifics of whether he is technically the 192 or 193 makes no difference. I am just showing you how even Ehlers would be considered a 3rd liner by your own metrics. IE you are lying to yourself if that is how you judge who is a top 6 player.

The substance you gave I think I just proved was quite weak. And essentially invalid if the very guy we are talking about trading for who is supposedly so much better (Ehlers) is also not top 6 by your own metrics.

The reality is they are both top 6 players. Ehlers is probably Jets 4th best fwd? and Garland is definitely the Canucks 4th best fwd.

Ok we could also trade Garland for a 1st at the deadline, and then add a 2nd and a prospect and that oughtta be more than enough to rent Ehlers so basically the value is similar. You can say you personally don't like Garland but the value is there.

Not sure why Canucks fans throw Garland into all these trades, considering how good he's proven himself to be. The numbers certainly don't tell the whole story with him. And to scoff at the notion of him being involved in a trade for Ehlers, an undersized winger who disappears every post-season, is an odd take. Any trade for Ehlers has the receiving team hoping he can have a Kessel-lite turnaround in the post-season.

It's not like Garland has been productive in the post season either to be fair

 

[Johnsie19]

Because he makes $4.95M, typically plays on the 3rd line (even if the 3rd line was more like the 2nd line at many points of this most recent season), and was part of the OEL trade. I think a lot of it is emotional.

It's a simple numbers game. If they want to get a scoring winger to play with Petey they have to move some cap out and there really isn't anyone else who you could reasonably move that makes much money. Most people love Garland and trading him probably isn't going to happen but we all kinda wish Petey could have a some more talent on his line.

I completely agree with the bolded part of your comment. The Jets have a 6'6 defenseman who isn't all that physical and aggressive but rarely gets called out by the fans who worry about players being under 6'2.
I think Garland is a great player and I would have loved for the Jets to have picked him up at the beginning of last season, when there was rumors of him being shopped. I also see Garland as an effective middle 6 player. The Canucks are my 2nd favourite team, and I'd be happy to see Ehlers play for the Canucks but as a fan of the Jets first, I'd want full value + for him in a trade.

Ehlers is a UFA to be so there is probably a decent chance he could be moved this yr. I don't know how much more value you can extract for Ehlers given he is a UFA. 1st, 2nd, prospect seems like a haul, Garland, 2nd, prospect similar thing.

 

[Wildcarder]

Sorry, but as a Canucks fan who values Garland fairly highly, I can completely understand Winnipeg not being excited about a deal for Ehlers where the centerpiece is Garland: a good, play-driving but unspectacular middle 6 winger.

 

[RangerBoy]

If Winnipeg struggles this year and they sell him at the deadline he'll return a fortune.

A 2nd is an insult

How much? Guentzel was supposed to bring Pittsburgh a "fortune". What happened????

 

[DJJones]

How much? Guentzel was supposed to bring Pittsburgh a "fortune". What happened????

They prioritized players and prospects instead of picks. A first for them is useless

 

[Adam da bomb]

It's a simple numbers game. If they want to get a scoring winger to play with Petey they have to move some cap out and there really isn't anyone else who you could reasonably move that makes much money. Most people love Garland and trading him probably isn't going to happen but we all kinda wish Petey could have a some more talent on his line.


Ehlers is a UFA to be so there is probably a decent chance he could be moved this yr. I don't know how much more value you can extract for Ehlers given he is a UFA. 1st, 2nd, prospect seems like a haul, Garland, 2nd, prospect similar thing.

Would rather the 1st than Garland. We already have a pretty good 3rd line and 4th line doesn’t play. If you are sending Garland back because you need the cap space that probably affects the return.

 

[Johnsie19]

Would rather the 1st than Garland. We already have a pretty good 3rd line and 4th line doesn’t play. If you are sending Garland back because you need the cap space that probably affects the return.

This hypothetical has a mind of its now. I think it could be a trade that happens before the season or mid season. Winnipeg with an eye to not wanting to lose Ehlers for nothing and getting a good return. If its a deadline deal then Garland wouldn't need to be part of it but the Jets probably aren't trading a top fwd if theyre in the playoffs too.

 

[Adam da bomb]

This hypothetical has a mind of its now. I think it could be a trade that happens before the season or mid season. Winnipeg with an eye to not wanting to lose Ehlers for nothing and getting a good return. If its a deadline deal then Garland wouldn't need to be part of it but the Jets probably aren't trading a top fwd if theyre in the playoffs too.

Before the season I still think jets need to try to trade him for a top 6 player and run Lowry Appleton Nino. A 1st we can at least try to trade for a top 4 d or a top 6 player.

If nothing other than garland is offered you lose ehlers for nothing at end of season.

 

[Johnsie19]

Before the season I still think jets need to try to trade him for a top 6 player and run Lowry Appleton Nino. A 1st we can at least try to trade for a top 4 d or a top 6 player.

If nothing other than garland is offered you lose ehlers for nothing at end of season.

Do me the exercise if you don't mind if which top 6 fwds would be traded for Ehlers. That are obviously better than Garland let's say. Ehlers himself is only slightly better. I don't think you'll come up with too many honestly. But let me know a few examples of guys.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Do me the exercise if you don't mind if which top 6 fwds would be traded for Ehlers. That are obviously better than Garland let's say. Ehlers himself is only slightly better. I don't think you'll come up with too many honestly. But let me know a few examples of guys.

Garland is still a middle 6 guy, even if we go with your assumption he does his role nearly as well as Ehlers.

So trading for him still does not fill the hole in our line up or our hearts.

Lowry could be argued to do his role as well as our top 6 guys, but, he is still a bottom 6 player who’s first responsibility is shutting things down defensively.

To do your exercise, players who could be on the chopping block.
TO seems willing to move Marner because of cap space.
Necas. Jets might have to add.

Brock Lee could possibly be pried away. He has his warts too, age etc,
but, all top 6 players.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Do me the exercise if you don't mind if which top 6 fwds would be traded for Ehlers. That are obviously better than Garland let's say. Ehlers himself is only slightly better. I don't think you'll come up with too many honestly. But let me know a few examples of guys.

Ehlers is better and a 2nd isn't worth downgrading the team in a contending season for me personally.

Helle is in his 30s now they need to make every shot count

 

[Johnsie19]

Ehlers is better and a 2nd isn't worth downgrading the team in a contending season for me personally.

Helle is in his 30s now they need to make every shot count

And the idea of losing him for nothing doesn't bother you?

I'm just saying if you're maybe on the outside of the playoffs but in with a chance are you going to let the asset play out and get nothing for him? It'll be a tough call. And I don't think you'll get a ready made fwd much better than Garland for Ehlers just looking around the league of him would make the move for a rental.

 

[Johnsie19]

Garland is still a middle 6 guy, even if we go with your assumption he does his role nearly as well as Ehlers.

So trading for him still does not fill the hole in our line up or our hearts.

Lowry could be argued to do his role as well as our top 6 guys, but, he is still a bottom 6 player who’s first responsibility is shutting things down defensively.

To do your exercise, players who could be on the chopping block.
TO seems willing to move Marner because of cap space.
Necas. Jets might have to add.

Brock Lee could possibly be pried away. He has his warts too, age etc,
but, all top 6 players.

Ehlers is a middle 6 fwd as well so Garland can surely fill Ehlers role.

So you wanna add top prospects or 1st round picks for Marner who is also expiring and unlikely to be available?

Necas I suppose could be possible. Again you'd have to add just because Necas is younger.

Brock Lee? ahha is this Anders Lee or Brock Nelson you're talking about? One is a ufa to be the other is 34 with 2 yrs left. Just overtly terrible trade targets for Ehlers.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Ehlers is a middle 6 fwd as well so Garland can surely fill Ehlers role.

So you wanna add top prospects or 1st round picks for Marner who is also expiring and unlikely to be available?

Necas I suppose could be possible. Again you'd have to add just because Necas is younger.

Brock Lee? ahha is this Anders Lee or Brock Nelson you're talking about? One is a ufa to be the other is 34 with 2 yrs left. Just overtly terrible trade targets for Ehlers.

If you think Garland and Ehlers are both middle 6 players there is nothing to be discussed as we are in complete disagreement. Ehlers is totally a top 6 player. You want him to play with Petey.
Ehlers is one of the top line drivers in the league. No one is lining up to play Garland with team’s best.
Jets are not thinking who can we trade to get Garland. People are asking how can we get Ehlers and if you really believed they were interchangeable a) you wouldn’t have come up with a proposal b) you are not offering to add a 2nd to get a player that’s interchangeable.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

And the idea of losing him for nothing doesn't bother you?

I'm just saying if you're maybe on the outside of the playoffs but in with a chance are you going to let the asset play out and get nothing for him? It'll be a tough call. And I don't think you'll get a ready made fwd much better than Garland for Ehlers just looking around the league of him would make the move for a rental.

If we were on the bubble near the deadline it would probably be a tougher choice, but if we're #3 or higher in the division and playing well I'd be fine losing him to UFA and keeping him as a rental

 

[bossram]

Not sure why Canucks fans throw Garland into all these trades, considering how good he's proven himself to be. The numbers certainly don't tell the whole story with him. And to scoff at the notion of him being involved in a trade for Ehlers, an undersized winger who disappears every post-season, is an odd take. Any trade for Ehlers has the receiving team hoping he can have a Kessel-lite turnaround in the post-season.

Because he makes $4.95M, typically plays on the 3rd line (even if the 3rd line was more like the 2nd line at many points of this most recent season), and was part of the OEL trade. I think a lot of it is emotional.

Yep, bolded is correct. People have this idea in their head that Garland is a small, third liner and are emotionally attached to it. Cannot be corrected, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

Tocchet played Garland like a top-six forward, he scores points at a 1st line rate at ES, and he is an elite scoring chance driver/playdriver. To consider him not a top-six forward at all is just nonsensical.

 

[Golden_Jet]

When I came into thread was expecting the Hoglander/Podzlokin offer.
Wasn’t disappointed