Player Discussion Nikita Zadorov - Protecting Our Investment

[Kryten]

Keeping Myers shouldn't have anything to do with keeping Zadorov. It's term and $ with Zadorov.

Keeping Myers shouldnt have anything to do with money either. Even at league minimum the guy is a detriment.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Keeping Myers shouldn't have anything to do with keeping Zadorov. It's term and $ with Zadorov.

Meyers has had his payday. If he wants back, it should been the $2 -2,25 M range, I want Zadorov back. he was better value for money than Lindholm, Hronek were. I want Joshua back too, but not at 4.

 

[F A N]

Meyers has had his payday. If he wants back, it should been the $2 -2,25 M range, I want Zadorov back. he was better value for money than Lindholm, Hronek were. I want Joshua back too, but not at 4.

It doesn’t matter how much money Myers has made in the past. We signed Cole (who is one year older) last year for 1 year at $3M. It’s hard to argue that Myers’s doesn’t deserve a similar deal. 2x$3M would be a good deal. He likely will get more.

 

[Luck 6]

Joshua wants $4 million not $2 million and Lindholm wants $8 million. I'm certain both are gone July 1 and fine with that. Hronek too if he won't take a reasonable contract. We could recoup some draft picks or a prospect that way. I think Zadorov will be re-signed and likely Guentzel and Tanev will be added as UFAs. I also wish the Canucks would stop wasting Garland on the 3rd line as he can also play LW. Put him up with Miller and Boeser. Put Guentzel, Pettersson and Hoglander together. Go out and get 2 players to add to the 3rd line made up of hungry UFAs on cheap one year prove it deals. I believe Raty isn't too far away from being an effective player. He could surprise a few next season. Stop overpaying 3rd and 4th liners. Spend the leftovers on getting the deepest possible blueline because of injuries and keep some extra cap for waivers or trades during the season.

If we could retain Zadorov and Myers, then sign Dillon and Tanev, we'd have a pretty deep blue line without Hronek. Alternatively, letting Zadorov walk and signing Hronek would be effective as well, likely even better and more balanced..

I agree regarding playing Garland in the top 6, he really should be a perfect support player there. Tocchet seems to like balancing the line up a bit though rather than stacking the top 6, so I suspect we continue to see Garland moved up and down the line up.

The way I'm looking at it is there are a few pinch points:

Zadorov: Is he staying or is he going? There seems to be a surplus of defensemen in UFA that are linked to Vancouver (Dillon, Tanev, Zadorov, Myers). Obviously Zadorov would be someone we want to keep, but if he lets it get to free agency, and other guys sign, there just may not be room for him. Ideally, we need to know if he's staying or going prior to the UFA period. I would say if we don't know, we need to essentially write him off.

Mikheyev: Can we move this guy? And what will it cost us? Honestly, I don't see us being able to pay Guentzel (or any other top tier top 6 forward) unless we find a way to move this guy out. With him in the mix, our budget for a top 6 winger is in the 5-6mil range. That isn't chump change, but it won't get a top tier player either. Ideally we make a decision on this by the draft.

Hronek: I am in the keep Hronek camp. We've been wanting a high level partner for Hughes for years, now that we have one, I'm not wanting to move him out. Tanev returning would be nice, but Tanev only has a couple of good years left in him, I don't think he's the best long term solution on our blue line. With that said, if his ask is ridiculous, I think there is a scenario where moving him would be the right move. If it's looking promising that we will be able to fill out our blue line via UFA, moving Hronek could solve several issues. We could acquire a cost effective top 6 winger in return, or potentially send Mikheyev with him (or use assets to move him after).

In looking back at the Pettersson deal, I'm pretty happy we got that done mid season. With everything that is going on, that would have been another key pinch point to resolve.

 

[theguardianII]

Hronek: I am in the keep Hronek camp. We've been wanting a high level partner for Hughes for years, now that we have one, I'm not wanting to move him out. Tanev returning would be nice, but Tanev only has a couple of good years left in him, I don't think he's the best long term solution on our blue line. With that said, if his ask is ridiculous, I think there is a scenario where moving him would be the right move. If it's looking promising that we will be able to fill out our blue line via UFA, moving Hronek could solve several issues. We could acquire a cost effective top 6 winger in return, or potentially send Mikheyev with him (or use assets to move him after).

This IS a Zadorov thread BUT IMO there is no way the team pays 8 mil for a sidekick. Hughes improved every year regardless of partner, next year whomever his is with will be the best partner he has ever had......again

 

[bandwagonesque]

This IS a Zadorov thread BUT IMO there is no way the team pays 8 mil for a sidekick. Hughes improved every year regardless of partner, next year whomever his is with will be the best partner he has ever had......again

Hughes elevated Hronek as well, their styles were complimentary. Hronek needs a bit of space and makes creative exits if he has it, Hughes generates time and space for his partner. In general, you can't just put a great defenceman with a partner who is somewhat positionally sound, physical and chips the puck off the glass and get a good pairing. It's a pervasive myth.

 

[F A N]

Hughes elevated Hronek as well, their styles were complimentary. Hronek needs a bit of space and makes creative exits if he has it, Hughes generates time and space for his partner. In general, you can't just put a great defenceman with a partner who is somewhat positionally sound, physical and chips the puck off the glass and get a good pairing. It's a pervasive myth.

But we haven't seen Hughes with a partner as good as Luke Schenn since Tanev so it's hard to tell. Tampa paid Sergachev thinking he could be a top pairing guy on his own and he isn't/hasn't been.

The stakes are less with Zadorov since he has shown himself capable of stepping up in the playoffs. He might frustrate us a bit when his attention is elsewhere but come playoff time he has usually been real solid. With that said, we're probably talking about $1M apart. Give it to Hronek instead of Zadorov and you keep Hronek. You give Z the extra $1M and you keep Z but maybe not re-sign Hronek.

 

[bandwagonesque]

But we haven't seen Hughes with a partner as good as Luke Schenn since Tanev so it's hard to tell. Tampa paid Sergachev thinking he could be a top pairing guy on his own and he isn't/hasn't been.

The stakes are less with Zadorov since he has shown himself capable of stepping up in the playoffs. He might frustrate us a bit when his attention is elsewhere but come playoff time he has usually been real solid. With that said, we're probably talking about $1M apart. Give it to Hronek instead of Zadorov and you keep Hronek. You give Z the extra $1M and you keep Z but maybe not re-sign Hronek.

When you watch Hughes with a healthy Hronek it's a not hard to tell at all. You don't need a control group of a mediocre partner. No one is a "top-pairing guy on his own." Some guys are good enough to manage without a capable partner, that's all.

 

[HairyKneel]

Keeping Myers shouldnt have anything to do with money either. Even at league minimum the guy is a detriment.

What a ridiculous post.

 

[F A N]

When you watch Hughes with a healthy Hronek it's a not hard to tell at all. You don't need a control group of a mediocre partner.

I'm not saying Hronek isn't a good partner for Hughes. I'm just saying that Hughes hasn't played with a partner anywhere near the calibre of Hronek since Tanev. Sedins looked great alongside plenty of RWers including Jason King for a short while too. Statistically (small sample size), Hughes with Myers, Cole, Soucey, and Zadorov produced good results.

No one is a "top-pairing guy on his own." Some guys are good enough to manage without a capable partner, that's all.

I'm not sure I can agree. I mean we use categories and labels. "Top pairing defenseman" has meaning. Josi is a top pairing defenseman even when paired with Fabbro (who is not exactly a top 4 Dman). Hughes can play with Schenn or Hronek and be a top pairing Dman.

 

[LordBacon]

If he really is rumoured to be offered 5x5 in the market then he's as good as gone.
Which is a shame because he fits like a f***ing glove here.

 

[F A N]

If he really is rumoured to be offered 5x5 in the market then he's as good as gone.
Which is a shame because he fits like a f***ing glove here.

That would be $500K more a year than Graves' contract (1 year less given Graves signed last year and they are practically the same age). I think Zadorov is better and Graves' contract is terrible so...

 

[theguardianII]

Hughes elevated Hronek as well, their styles were complimentary. Hronek needs a bit of space and makes creative exits if he has it, Hughes generates time and space for his partner. In general, you can't just put a great defenceman with a partner who is somewhat positionally sound, physical and chips the puck off the glass and get a good pairing. It's a pervasive myth.

Were Tanev and Schenn dog food? Schenn was a reclamation project just a few years ago. Niether were dynamically creative but Hughes point totals improved every year.
It would almost be criminal to put 15 million on the top pairing, the rest would have to 2 to 3 mil guys so the remainder of the defence would be less of an offensive threat.
That and it is only one season they played together and not the whole season at that.
The playoffs they ended up being split up because neither were offensively effective together.

 

[F A N]

Were Tanev and Schenn dog food? Schenn was a reclamation project just a few years ago. Niether were dynamically creative but Hughes point totals improved every year.
It would almost be criminal to put 15 million on the top pairing, the rest would have to 2 to 3 mil guys so the remainder of the defence would be less of an offensive threat.
That and it is only one season they played together and not the whole season at that.
The playoffs they ended up being split up because neither were offensively effective together.

I'm actually ok with a dominant top pairing if that is possible. But ideally you have options where if you're not facing Hughes you're facing Hronek. Of course Hronek isn't at that level.

 

[theguardianII]

If doing signing by amount then it is possible that Zadorov is next.
Still think the term is the key.
34 - 36 mil over 7/8 years with a hefty signing bonus and clause.

 

[TruGr1t]

Keeping Zadorov after signing the Hronek extension doesn't line-up capwise. You'd be super light on the right-side after Hronek and have extremely limited cap space to address that, especially if you're adding significant salary to the top six. You basically need to downgrade cap hit on the bottom-pair leftside to balance the line-up.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Keeping Zadorov after signing the Hronek extension doesn't line-up capwise. You'd be super light on the right-side after Hronek and have extremely limited cap space to address that, especially if you're adding significant salary to the top six. You basically need to downgrade cap hit on the bottom-pair leftside to balance the line-up.

It does re-open the possibility of moving out Soucy, which I was initially against. Still don't know how I feel about it but that would make move on the left side, and it isn't like Soucy has no value.

On the whole though, much as I love Z. You just know he's getting a stupid contract and I'd rather it not be us.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

It does re-open the possibility of moving out Soucy, which I was initially against. Still don't know how I feel about it but that would make move on the left side, and it isn't like Soucy has no value.

On the whole though, much as I love Z. You just know he's getting a stupid contract and I'd rather it not be us.

I don't think Soucy is going anywhere. I've been banging this drum for a bit, but I think Zadorov staying hinges on Mikheyev moving.

 

[Nucker101]

If he stays then I think Tocchet/Foote have to comfortable with giving him and/or Soucy minutes at RD, otherwise you're sadly better off allocating the cap space for a top 6 forward or a real top 4 RD

I love the guy but this team sadly can't afford fun luxuries like running Hughes/Zadorov/Soucy at LD.

 

[HairyKneel]

Soucy is a better player than Z and signed to a good contract for two more years. I don't give a shit about this left /right weighted theory. If Wilander balances that in 25/26 and Myers comes back on a reasonable deal, the D is set. All that said I want Big Z back.

It was a good unit. We get another goal or two and/or a healthy Demko, this was a top 4 team.

A solid and BIG mobile D is the wagon of every good team. When I think of the scrubs that Elmer rolled out for years, it makes me puke. Abject moron who made a few good picks while mangling the cap for the better part of a decade.

If he stays then I think Tocchet/Foote have to comfortable with giving him and/or Soucy minutes at RD, otherwise you're sadly better off allocating the cap space for a top 6 forward or a real top 4 RD

I love the guy but this team sadly can't afford fun luxuries like running Hughes/Zadorov/Soucy at LD.

Myers is a capable #4 right handed shot.

 

[Nucker101]

Myers is a capable #4 right handed shot.

I think for this team to take the next step, I'd want Myers on the bottom pairing. He'll turn 35 during next season.

 

[TruGr1t]

I don't think Soucy is going anywhere. I've been banging this drum for a bit, but I think Zadorov staying hinges on Mikheyev moving.

If they think they have a realistic shot at Guentzel on July 1st, I can't see them signing Zadorov before then. It would put them in a heck of a spot unless a move for Mikheyev magically manifests itself in the meantime. Even then you'd be in real tight, you'd have maybe ~$5Mish I believe to address 3c and retain Blueger, and add another RHD, which I think you need.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

I've been dealing with some shit lately and haven't been keeping up. Can anyone give me a brief lowdown on Big Z's situation?

I want this guy back on our team so bad.

 

[Nuckles]

I've been dealing with some shit lately and haven't been keeping up. Can anyone give me a brief lowdown on Big Z's situation?

I want this guy back on our team so bad.

Rumored to be seeking 6x6 in free agency. Will sign with Canucks for a bit less (5.5?). Likes Vancouver, wants to come back. Canucks don't want to pay that much for him but also want him back.

 

[Hit the post]

Rumored to be seeking 6x6 in free agency. Will sign with Canucks for a bit less (5.5?). Likes Vancouver, wants to come back. Canucks don't want to pay that much for him but also want him back.

Hronek is the better player but we'll miss what the Big Russian brings to the table if he we walks (in the post season that is).