Player Discussion Nikita Zadorov - Protecting Our Investment

[Chairman Maouth]

ored to be seeking 6x6 in free agency. Will sign with Canucks for a bit less (5.5?). Likes Vancouver, wants to come back. Canucks don't want to pay that much for him but also want him back.

Thanks bud. I know he wants to stay and I think we need guys like him.

Didn't it used to be said about Jonathan Toews that it was the intangibles? He brought more to the table than just stats? I see intangibles in Z. I see a guy who will bring a team together and who will be a positive influence on the ice, in the dressing room, and even away from the rink.

 

[theguardianII]

The stakes are less with Zadorov since he has shown himself capable of stepping up in the playoffs. He might frustrate us a bit when his attention is elsewhere but come playoff time he has usually been real solid. With that said, we're probably talking about $1M apart. Give it to Hronek instead of Zadorov and you keep Hronek. You give Z the extra $1M and you keep Z but maybe not re-sign Hronek.

New thinking, two top pairings

Keeping Zadorov after signing the Hronek extension doesn't line-up capwise. You'd be super light on the right-side after Hronek and have extremely limited cap space to address that, especially if you're adding significant salary to the top six. You basically need to downgrade cap hit on the bottom-pair leftside to balance the line-up.

Hronek less than the 8 mil ask, savings for Z?

Soucy is a better player than Z

For his 50 games per year? Can't compare Z's been much more healthy.

If they think they have a realistic shot at Guentzel on July 1st, I can't see them signing Zadorov before then.

Sure, they can go over the cap after July 1.

Some think the ask was 6X6 but Zadorov poo pooed those numbers in his end of season media scrum. He called those numbers silly.

He wants term, something like 5 X 7/8 yrs with a clause and a signing bonus. His family likes it here and he will get endorsements here, lots. The family really like it here. He would need the signing bonus to buy a house in the west end.

 

[Quinton Byfield]

Soucy is a better player than Z and signed to a good contract for two more years. I don't give a shit about this left /right weighted theory. If Wilander balances that in 25/26 and Myers comes back on a reasonable deal, the D is set. All that said I want Big Z back.

A solid and BIG mobile D is the wagon of every good team. When I think of the scrubs that Elmer rolled out for years, it makes me puke. Abject moron who made a few good picks while mangling the cap for the better part of a decade.

That's not true. Soucy's profile from when he first signed was mostly a 3rd pairing defenseman with good results against weak competition. And that's how we mostly deployed him, until Cole's play deteriorated.

Zadorov's results are better at 5v5 against more difficult competition and has been trending upwards as he's matured. I think by the eye test, Zadorov has more upside than Soucy, because Zadorov is a great skater with size and a mean streak. I think that kind of player profile is very rare, and his attitude is infectious. He's completely unafraid of the moment, and allows us to play a lot bigger.

I'm not saying he should be re-signed at all costs, but if we lose him, I think it'll be a pretty big loss. We'll just pine away for someone like Zadorov.

I think if the Canucks think they can turn Soucy into a 2nd pairing defenseman, I'd have to imagine that they think that way about Zadorov as well. I remember Zadorov saying that he thinks he's getting better and better as a player, that he is growing and learning all the time. That's a great mental attitude to have, and the stats do support that.

 

[Hodgy]

I agree with the above.

I think people are rightfully concerned about giving Zadorov a big pay day given that he's mostly been a bottom pairing defensemen. However, there is something to be said for potential and development. I know most players of his age probably don't develop much, if anything, but Zadorov is a rare case based on his size and skating abilities. And for the most part, comparisons aren't going to be very apt because the players being referenced are not going to have anywhere near the physical stature and athleticism of Zadorov. And of course we saw Zadorov play as a number three defensemen in the playoffs and play quite well at that position.

So, over all, I think its way too simple to just conclude that paying Zadorov $5 million is "too much" based on his past history. Of course giving him a big contract comes with risk (i.e., he plays as a number five) but you also have to recognize that Zadorov has the potential to be a very special player, that frankly, is virtually never available to acquire.

To put it another way, if the Canucks don't sign Zadorov and he goes on to play as a top 3 or 4 defensemen in the NHL for the next 4 years or whatever, and does so playing a physical punishing brand of hockey while also being a competent puck mover, that will haunt this management and easily be one of their biggest misses.

 

[F A N]

Soucy is a better player than Z a

In the playoffs, he clearly isn't. I like Soucy a lot as a #5 Dman and I think he can be serviceable as a #4 but that's it. Zadorov at his best is a top 4 Dman who can make an impact at both ends of the ice. Overall, Zadorov might be similar to Soucy half the time but the other half of the time Zadorov is much better.

 

[Nucker101]

Soucy got injured a couple of times this season, people were loving the guy until the injuries happened. I think he’ll be fine.

 

[pitseleh]

I think people are rightfully concerned about giving Zadorov a big pay day given that he's mostly been a bottom pairing defensemen. However, there is something to be said for potential and development. I know most players of his age probably don't develop much, if anything, but Zadorov is a rare case based on his size and skating abilities.

The thing with Zadorov is he doesn’t even necessarily have to develop - he may just need be supported in a role that he may already have the skills for. There’s a lot to like in his underlying numbers when it comes to things like zone exits and entries, scoring chance creation, etc. that suggest he could be a Bieksa type player - one who can drive possession but may give up a few ugly goals against in doing so.

But he’s generally been pigeonholed in the big shutdown defender role so hasn’t had much opportunity to showcase what he can do, so it’s hard to disentangle whether what we saw from him in the playoffs is a sustainable level of play or a hot run. I’m glad I don’t have to make that call.

 

[Regal]

There’s a lot of comparison between Zads and Soucy but it seems like the talk is solely about how both would fit in. But if they think Zads is better is there a chance they move Soucy and go with a cheaper bottom pairing?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I don't think Soucy is going anywhere. I've been banging this drum for a bit, but I think Zadorov staying hinges on Mikheyev moving.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if they have something potentially in the mix contract wise with Zadorov but are trying to create a market for Mikheyev. I really hope if it comes down to it, they're ready to just eat the pick cost and move on.

Getting Mik's whole contract off the board gives us so much more flexibility. You and I both championed Duclair. I hope, if we do land Guentzel and move out Mikheyev for Zadorov, he's on their radar as a depth option.

 

[hookshott]

The thing with Zadorov is he doesn’t even necessarily have to develop - he may just need be supported in a role that he may already have the skills for. There’s a lot to like in his underlying numbers when it comes to things like zone exits and entries, scoring chance creation, etc. that suggest he could be a Bieksa type player - one who can drive possession but may give up a few ugly goals against in doing so.

But he’s generally been pigeonholed in the big shutdown defender role so hasn’t had much opportunity to showcase what he can do, so it’s hard to disentangle whether what we saw from him in the playoffs is a sustainable level of play or a hot run. I’m glad I don’t have to make that call.

Far too much "recency bias" in this thread.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Thanks bud. I know he wants to stay and I think we need guys like him.

Didn't it used to be said about Jonathan Toews that it was the intangibles? He brought more to the table than just stats? I see intangibles in Z. I see a guy who will bring a team together and who will be a positive influence on the ice, in the dressing room, and even away from the rink.

Which is great if you can make up for that overpaid player with cheap, producing players. Something the Canucks lack after years of not rebuilding.

I was ready to jump at giving Zadorov whatever he asked during the playoffs. But after thinking about it critically and analytically it doesn’t make sense. He’s a 4/5D. You can’t pay him $5M+

 

[F A N]

I was ready to jump at giving Zadorov whatever he asked during the playoffs. But after thinking about it critically and analytically it doesn’t make sense. He’s a 4/5D. You can’t pay him $5M+

Same. I think there's good reasons why he hasn't established himself as a top 4 Dman in the NHL. He's certainly capable of it and it certainly hasn't been for a lack of opportunities given his pedigree, size, and skillset. Still I'm comfortable giving him a long term deal with the expectation that he's going to be a frustrating player at times in the regular season but steps it up in the playoffs.

 

[Cancuks]

Unloading Mikheyev at full salary without a buyout should be enough to re-sign Zadorov. Might have to offer $4.75 @ 8 years though. I think Calgary might be interested in Mikheyev if the Canucks give up future a second round pick and maybe a B prospect like Klimovich.

 

[HairyKneel]

There’s a lot of comparison between Zads and Soucy but it seems like the talk is solely about how both would fit in. But if they think Zads is better is there a chance they move Soucy and go with a cheaper bottom pairing?

I think one of them, or both should have cross checked McDavid a lot harder and maybe it's Vancouver in the finals

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i would love to see zad back, really don’t want to see myers back

but ultimately my thinking is this: with hronek now re-signed we realistically have hughes on the top pair, with no partner, and soucy and hronek on the second pair.

and as much as zad adds majorly to this team in important ways he is a high event dman and that’s not what a contending team wants in its bottom pair. so if we are going to be a real serious contender i don’t see a place for zad on this team (nor, for the same reasons, myers on a super discount) unless zad can play the right side with hughes or we pair him with hronek on the second pair and soucy slides down to anchor a safe third pair… which actually now that i am typing it maybe isn’t a terrible idea. but where are we going to get two dependable and cost-effective RDs who aren’t myers?

 

[docbenton]

In the playoffs, he clearly isn't. I like Soucy a lot as a #5 Dman and I think he can be serviceable as a #4 but that's it. Zadorov at his best is a top 4 Dman who can make an impact at both ends of the ice. Overall, Zadorov might be similar to Soucy half the time but the other half of the time Zadorov is much better.

Agreed, I wouldn't even be opposed to trading Soucy to make room for Zadorov. More upside in every respect with Z with his skating, flashes of puck-moving ability and power, although Soucy has been fine. Bigger defensemen often peak later.

Zadorov looked like a top pairing defenseman in the playoffs. Obviously you don't count on that moving forward, but I think projecting him as a second pair defenseman is reasonable. And it wouldn't be a complete shock if he was able to become a legit star.

On the right side Myers on a cheap deal is fine for now, and we have Willander coming soon. Juulsen is more than capable on the 3rd pair, and McWard has upside to make the team as well with his skating, skill and relative youth.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I think the thing to do with Big Z is offer him an 8 x $4.5 front loaded contract with signing bonuses; the will give him the pay day he wants and not hurt us to bad. Limited trade protection.

 

[EpochLink]

Mah ******

 

[Nuckles]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806760377331392666

Fly high you magnificent beast...towards the East coast preferably

 

[MikeK]

Would love to have him back. But if the dollars and term don't make sense you have to walk away. I have faith in our front office so if they couldn't find a common ground for a framework I have to believe big Z is looking for the last big payday he'll see in the NHL. Good on management for keeping a cool head and not getting in too deep.

 

[VanJack]

The one thing I admire about the current regime over the previous one is their cap management. They're in a different league.

I'm sure they have a number in mind for all their own UFA's, as well as others who will come on the market on July 1st. They know what they can afford to pay Zadorov, and they're not going to move off of it. And even when they make a mistake--like they did with Mikheyev--they don't let it linger.

So if Zadorov and his agent get stupid money from somebody out there, then you just have to tip your cap to them and move on. In today's NHL, there are very few examples of 'irreplaceable players'.

 

[F A N]

He’s gone to UFA before and re-signed with Calgary. Not surprised he wants to have a look around again. There’s still hope that he comes back unless Allvin moves on.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I agree with the above.

I think people are rightfully concerned about giving Zadorov a big pay day given that he's mostly been a bottom pairing defensemen. However, there is something to be said for potential and development. I know most players of his age probably don't develop much, if anything, but Zadorov is a rare case based on his size and skating abilities. And for the most part, comparisons aren't going to be very apt because the players being referenced are not going to have anywhere near the physical stature and athleticism of Zadorov. And of course we saw Zadorov play as a number three defensemen in the playoffs and play quite well at that position.

So, over all, I think its way too simple to just conclude that paying Zadorov $5 million is "too much" based on his past history. Of course giving him a big contract comes with risk (i.e., he plays as a number five) but you also have to recognize that Zadorov has the potential to be a very special player, that frankly, is virtually never available to acquire.

To put it another way, if the Canucks don't sign Zadorov and he goes on to play as a top 3 or 4 defensemen in the NHL for the next 4 years or whatever, and does so playing a physical punishing brand of hockey while also being a competent puck mover, that will haunt this management and easily be one of their biggest misses.

There's a few things there are at issue here:

- The assumption he only wanted $5m AAV.
- We don't know that if they give him what he wants, that they can still get Guentzel signed.
- That the probability of further development is treated as an equal proposition, at 29 years of age.
- That physical stature and athleticism equate to a high level defender (he's been 3rd pair for the majority of his career).
- Unique traits are worth overpaying for simply because they are unique.

This was a good decision by management. Zadorov gave them a great short sample of play, but they have to re-sign him based upon the total body of his work. In that regard, paying him more that #4 money would have been a mistake.

He could go on to dominate at a level never before seen (the narrow part of the curve) and it still would be the right call based upon what they know to this point.

 

[Jyrki]

Such a shame there's little chance of retaining him now, he was a big part of the playoffs push/run. But if he's going to command stupid money/term we just can't spend the rest of the cap room on our #5.

 

[Jack Burton]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806760377331392666