Prospect Info: Nikita Tryamkin | VI

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ChilliBilly

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He will also make much more money here ....

So anyone know what the rules are as far as signing him when his season ends next year? Can they agree to a deal during the season to commence the second his season ends next year?
 

Lindgren

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I think i remember seeing that he was still used as their #1 dman.. in terms of ice time and matchups.
he dropped off offensively in yr 2 after leading his D in scoring in yr 1 due to the addition of Vishnevsky ...
But people look the points and presume he has had a some drop big off in play.
If he did, it wasn't reflected in his ice time.

That's consistent with my recollection that he consistently led his team in ice-time through the playoffs.
 
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ProstheticConscience

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Patrick Johnston: Tryamkin, Canucks could be a partnership again

So basically, Benning talked to Tryamkin's agent in Buffalo, and said agent is still making the same non-committal noises he always has when the question of Tryamkin returning to the Canucks is raised.

Sorry, but it really doesn't look to me like there's any new development here.

*edit* Unless I'm missing something. If anyone has a more substantial report, feel free to correct me.
 
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DL44

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Patrick Johnston: Tryamkin, Canucks could be a partnership again

So basically, Benning talked to Tryamkin's agent in Buffalo, and said agent is still making the same non-committal noises he always has when the question of Tryamkin returning to the Canucks is raised.

Sorry, but it really doesn't look to me like there's any new development here.

*edit* Unless I'm missing something. If anyone has a more substantial report, feel free to correct me.
I would say exactly correct..
No new development.
Was always, and still expected to explore coming back after his contract expires.
Was the case the day he signed it... still the case now.

People have just swayed on their belief on whether he would come back or not. Some don't think so... I've held a strong belief he would be back.


Nikita Tryamkin Struggling In KHL, Stripped Of Captaincy

Makes some sense he's posturing about coming back to N.A.

Naming him captain was surprising and I thought a blatant political attempt of extending him.
Stripping him after the team's 20-1 start screams of another ridiculous political move...

The captaincy issue imo has nothing to do with his play on the ice, and everything to do with politics... if anything it probably supports a return to the NHL and the stripping was a saving-face move so the KHL team doesn't end up losing their captain to the NHL.
 

Lindgren

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What's new in this story, at least to me, is on the Vancouver side.

We now know that Benning is staying in touch with the agent and trying to make something of the asset. In other organizations, that wouldn't be news, because it would go without saying that management would take such an obvious step. In Vancouver, not so much.
 

VanJack

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They're making a big deal out of Tryamkin finishing out his three-year contract in the KHL. But at this point he could probably buy his way out of it, and still be far ahead financially with what he's earn playing the NHL.

You have to assume that Benning and Tryamkin's agent are at least exploring that option. Why waste another productive season in the KHL?
 

ProstheticConscience

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What's new in this story, at least to me, is on the Vancouver side.

We now know that Benning is staying in touch with the agent and trying to make something of the asset. In other organizations, that wouldn't be news, because it would go without saying that management would take such an obvious step. In Vancouver, not so much.
Of course Benning's in touch with the agent. Obviously he's in touch with the agent. The Canucks D is a garbage fire, Edler might be on his way out, Tryamkin's still Canucks property, and Benning knows the clock is ticking.

The Canucks want Tryamkin here. The Canucks have always wanted Tryamkin here aside from the one idiotic time they tried to send him to Utica despite having given him a contract with a clause that said he didn't have to. Nothing has changed except for Benning's desperation level.
 

DL44

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They're making a big deal out of Tryamkin finishing out his three-year contract in the KHL. But at this point he could probably buy his way out of it, and still be far ahead financially with what he's earn playing the NHL.

You have to assume that Benning and Tryamkin's agent are at least exploring that option. Why waste another productive season in the KHL?

But why would he burn that bridge in his home country for an additional 1 yr's worth of $.
Clearly money isn't the priority driver with Tryamkin, or he wouldn't have gone home in the first place. It's also probably the primary reason people fear he may not come over..

He'll likely honor the contract.... then decide whether coming here for his prime earning years is worth putting up with the smell of weed for the next 8-10 yrs. A projected $20-30mil in career NHL earnings for his sacrifice doesn't hurt.
 

Lindgren

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Of course Benning's in touch with the agent. Obviously he's in touch with the agent. The Canucks D is a garbage fire, Edler might be on his way out, Tryamkin's still Canucks property, and Benning knows the clock is ticking.

The Canucks want Tryamkin here. The Canucks have always wanted Tryamkin here aside from the one idiotic time they tried to send him to Utica despite having given him a contract with a clause that said he didn't have to. Nothing has changed except for Benning's desperation level.

I've seen nothing up till now that has made it obvious that Benning has been in touch with Tryamkin's agent.

Of course it's obvious that he should have been in touch, but it's also obvious that he should be exploring weaponizing cap space, that he should have been attempting to arrange a trade for Edler months before the deadline, that he should at least explore trading down in the draft, that he should make sure the Canucks' analytics department is among the best in the league, etc. I don't think he's done/is doing any of those obvious things.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that he's been in touch with the agent?
 

ProstheticConscience

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I've seen nothing up till now that has made it obvious that Benning has been in touch with Tryamkin's agent.

Of course it's obvious that he should have been in touch, but it's also obvious that he should be exploring weaponizing cap space, that he should have been attempting to arrange a trade for Edler months before the deadline, that he should at least explore trading down in the draft, that he should make sure the Canucks' analytics department is among the best in the league, etc. I don't think he's done/is doing any of those obvious things.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that he's been in touch with the agent?
Okay, my bad. Sometimes I guess I still have the hope that Benning has even the tiniest shred of competence to keep in touch with potential impact players in key positions who remain the Canucks' property.
 

settinguptheplay

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I've seen nothing up till now that has made it obvious that Benning has been in touch with Tryamkin's agent.

Of course it's obvious that he should have been in touch, but it's also obvious that he should be exploring weaponizing cap space, that he should have been attempting to arrange a trade for Edler months before the deadline, that he should at least explore trading down in the draft, that he should make sure the Canucks' analytics department is among the best in the league, etc. I don't think he's done/is doing any of those obvious things.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that he's been in touch with the agent?

I find it a bit ironic that you ask for evidence for a claim when you yourself made several claims without evidence. Something just doesn't jive there.
 

Lindgren

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I find it a bit ironic that you ask for evidence for a claim when you yourself made several claims without evidence. Something just doesn't jive there.

I said I didn't think he had done those things. If I said that it was obvious he had done none of those things, that would require evidence in support.

Having said that, Benning has acknowledged in the past that he wasn't looking to take advantage of his salary cap room by taking on bad contracts in order to get other assets. It was also clear that he didn't start on trade work for Edler till close to the deadline, and it's also clear that the analytics department is pretty small. Do you genuinely doubt these points? If so, I'll look around for some sources.
 

Lindgren

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Okay, my bad. Sometimes I guess I still have the hope that Benning has even the tiniest shred of competence to keep in touch with potential impact players in key positions who remain the Canucks' property.

When you say "my bad," are you then acknowledging that his being in touch with the agent is news?
 

settinguptheplay

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I said I didn't think he had done those things. If I said that it was obvious he had done none of those things, that would require evidence in support.

Having said that, Benning has acknowledged in the past that he wasn't looking to take advantage of his salary cap room by taking on bad contracts in order to get other assets. It was also clear that he didn't start on trade work for Edler till close to the deadline, and it's also clear that the analytics department is pretty small. Do you genuinely doubt these points? If so, I'll look around for some sources.

I have no objection at all to what you have said. It is a hockey forum. It is all about discussion. But when we start tossing out "should's" in regards to something we have no real knowledge of it comes across... as I said... A bit ironic. Allow me to explain.

1) He should have been in contact with Tryamkin's agent. Why is this? He left under iffy circumstances. It would not be out of order to leave him in Russia. Or trade away his rights. We do not know exactly how it all went down. The Canucks owe Tryamkin nothing. That said I am glad he has kept in touch. He was a favorite of mine when he was here.

2) Benning should be weaponizing cap space. Do we know for sure he hasn't considered it? I am not sure of this one at all. Could very well be true. Was this a trade deadline thing or an off season?

3) Attempt to trade Edler. This one is nonsense and used only to further bash management. Edler had a NTC and on numerous times said he would not waive it. But you wanted Benning to spend time seeking trade partners for him? That would be poor management. Not the other way around.

4) Explore trading down. Not everyone agree's that trading down from a top 10 spot is a good idea. I tend to agree. Take BPA and go from there. I do not recall Benning saying that was not a possibility. Again, perhaps I missed it.

5) Canucks analytics dept. Not everyone shares the opinion that analytics have real world application. Didn't Florida have a massive analytics dept? Where are they now?

So you don't believe Benning has done any of these things. Yet I see no real evidence that he hasn't and in a couple of the cases I see know reason why he should.
 
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Lindgren

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I have no objection at all to what you have said. It is a hockey forum. It is all about discussion. But when we start tossing out "should's" in regards to something we have no real knowledge of it comes across... as I said... A bit ironic. Allow me to explain.

1) He should have been in contact with Tryamkin's agent. Why is this? He left under iffy circumstances. It would not be out of order to leave him in Russia. Or trade away his rights. We do not know exactly how it all went down. The Canucks owe Tryamkin nothing. That said I am glad he has kept in touch. He was a favorite of mine when he was here.

2) Benning should be weaponizing cap space. Do we know for sure he hasn't considered it? I am not sure of this one at all. Could very well be true. Was this a trade deadline thing or an off season?

3) Attempt to trade Edler. This one is nonsense and used only to further bash management. Edler had a NTC and on numerous times said he would not waive it. But you wanted Benning to spend time seeking trade partners for him? That would be poor management. Not the other way around.

4) Explore trading down. Not everyone agree's that trading down from a top 10 spot is a good idea. I tend to agree. Take BPA and go from there. I do not recall Benning saying that was not a possibility. Again, perhaps I missed it.

5) Canucks analytics dept. Not everyone shares the opinion that analytics have real world application. Didn't Florida have a massive analytics dept? Where are they now?

So you don't believe Benning has done any of these things. Yet I see no real evidence that he hasn't and in a couple of the cases I see know reason why he should.

There's evidence to support all the things I suggested are likely true: he hasn't considered weaponizing cap space (I recall him saying as much -- that they weren't interested in doing it); he didn't entertain trade proposals for Edler until after beginning negotiations on a new contract (so that when he approached Edler about a trade to Calgary, shortly before the deadline, Edler had little incentive to consider it); the Canucks don't invest much, relative to other teams, in analytics (as your post seems to indirectly acknowledge). So, there's evidence to support my claims of fact, and, as I said, if you genuinely doubt it, I'm willing to do the work to find sources.

There's nothing in my statements about what I think the Canucks "should" be doing that require evidence. Those statements don't purport to be anything other than mere opinion, of the kind most of us enjoy sharing. (For example, some may think analytics aren't that useful. That's fine. If they say that it's obviously the case that analytics aren't useful, that requires evidence to make sense.)

In short, there's nothing ironic in the post you were responding to.
 

settinguptheplay

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There's evidence to support all the things I suggested are likely true: he hasn't considered weaponizing cap space (I recall him saying as much -- that they weren't interested in doing it); he didn't entertain trade proposals for Edler until after beginning negotiations on a new contract (so that when he approached Edler about a trade to Calgary, shortly before the deadline, Edler had little incentive to consider it); the Canucks don't invest much, relative to other teams, in analytics (as your post seems to indirectly acknowledge). So, there's evidence to support my claims of fact, and, as I said, if you genuinely doubt it, I'm willing to do the work to find sources.

There's nothing in my statements about what I think the Canucks "should" be doing that require evidence. Those statements don't purport to be anything other than mere opinion, of the kind most of us enjoy sharing. (For example, some may think analytics aren't that useful. That's fine. If they say that it's obviously the case that analytics aren't useful, that requires evidence to make sense.)

In short, there's nothing ironic in the post you were responding to.

The irony is that you told PC to provide evidence that Benning has reached out to Tryamkin's agent then proceeded to make several claims without evidence. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't exist. Perhaps reread ProstheticConscience's post that you replied to and your reply to him. The irony is there in flashing lights and sirens.

And again to be clear. I don't doubt anything you are saying. I am not claiming to know the truth because there is no way I can know the truth for certain. Just like you. And why do you keep bringing up Edler? Do you know what a NTC is for? Who gives a hoot when or if Benning tried to trade him. It would have been a waste of time. Faux outrage.
 

ProstheticConscience

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When you say "my bad," are you then acknowledging that his being in touch with the agent is news?
No, I'm saying that I just took for granted he'd be doing something that f***ing obvious. If he hasn't been in regular contact it's pretty bloody negligent, isn't it.

But then hey, I also thought it would be bloody obvious to begin work on a new contract for Edler long before now, seeing as how Edler's refused to waive his NTC for two years running, thereby affirming that he wants to remain here. And we've seen how that's turned out.
 

Lindgren

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The irony is that you told PC to provide evidence that Benning has reached out to Tryamkin's agent then proceeded to make several claims without evidence. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't exist. Perhaps reread ProstheticConscience's post that you replied to and your reply to him. The irony is there in flashing lights and sirens.

And again to be clear. I don't doubt anything you are saying. I am not claiming to know the truth because there is no way I can know the truth for certain. Just like you. And why do you keep bringing up Edler? Do you know what a NTC is for? Who gives a hoot when or if Benning tried to trade him. It would have been a waste of time. Faux outrage.

PC's post depended on it being true that Benning had had previous discussions with Tryamkin's agent. My post had no parallel logic.

I brought up Edler once. Then you brought him up. Then I replied. I expressed no outrage. Take your own advice and reread.
 

Lindgren

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No, I'm saying that I just took for granted he'd be doing something that ****ing obvious. If he hasn't been in regular contact it's pretty bloody negligent, isn't it.

But then hey, I also thought it would be bloody obvious to begin work on a new contract for Edler long before now, seeing as how Edler's refused to waive his NTC for two years running, thereby affirming that he wants to remain here. And we've seen how that's turned out.

I agree that he's been negligent if he hasn't been in contact with the agent. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that he's been negligent in precisely that way. It seems consistent with other behaviour.

Why would you assume he hasn't been negligent in this case? Do you see a pattern of competence? If you see lots of incompetence, why wouldn't you agree that it's interesting, particularly in this slow news period before the draft, if there's a moment of management competence?
 

DonnyNucker

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I agree that he's been negligent if he hasn't been in contact with the agent. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that he's been negligent in precisely that way. It seems consistent with other behaviour.

Why would you assume he hasn't been negligent in this case? Do you see a pattern of competence? If you see lots of incompetence, why wouldn't you agree that it's interesting, particularly in this slow news period before the draft, if there's a moment of management competence?
The two of you need girlfriends. You are arguing about whether a GM that’s going to be gone In a year has had enough contact with an agent of a number 6 dman that bailed on the team that drafted him to return to Russia? Who cares
 

Lindgren

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The two of you need girlfriends. You are arguing about whether a GM that’s going to be gone In a year has had enough contact with an agent of a number 6 dman that bailed on the team that drafted him to return to Russia? Who cares

And you have enough time on your hands to chime in and say you don't care. I thought you had more exciting things going on, DN.
 
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