Value of: Niemi and Lehtonen
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Trapper
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Skinnyjimmy08
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Involving a key young piece with one of them. Ex. Nichushkin or Honka or something
I still like the idea doing something like that to get Bishop.. sending a package deal for him
I still like the idea doing something like that to get Bishop.. sending a package deal for him
MMC
Global Moderator
Considering Bishop's contract is off the books next summer and both Niemi's and Lehtonen's run another season, we would have to send salary back the other way just to balance out whichever one we took. Between the two we would most likely take Niemi as Lehtonen's buyout is horrendous - the only way we can take Lehtonen is if Dallas takes a cap dump and retains 50% on him and I don't see them being able to do that. The cap dump we would send back the other way would be either Filppula or (assuming he would be willing to waive) Callahan. Cally is the better player but also has a higher AAV and longer term.
At this point (Niemi for Filppula/Callahan) we would at best be even, and that's being generous to Dallas considering we'd be trading a quality third line forward and penalty killer for a backup goalie (both being overpaid for their roles but the player Dallas receives at least being a quality player who will contribute in a big way on defense and possibly somewhat on offense as well should he happen to have a bounce-back season.) Then we would have to settle the issue of compensation for Bishop, which would at a minimum have to include Honka for Tampa to even consider moving a top two goalie in the league before our last chance to win a Cup before losing several key players to the cap. If the cap dump Dallas takes is Callahan then Honka alone might be enough; otherwise Dallas would have to add.
So a deal could be made, but it hinges on Dallas not expecting to take Yzerman for a ride because that won't happen. We're under much less pressure to make a deal than they are and Stevie Y knows this.
That's probably true. Next summer you'll have an easier time finding someone willing to take on a year of an overpaid goalie and you can try to sign Bishop as a free agent without having to give anything up for him.
As a Stars fan, understand the TB side. However, they might lose a goalie for nothing after next year. Maybe the deal gets made mid year, but still makes some sense for both sides. I think they will do it, but there is the typical disparity of value seen.
For an extra year of Stars true Cup contention (which I think they would be among favorites with Bishop) I can see giving up a first. I can see giving up a prospect. TB needs futures rather than immediate salary.
Maybe a Nemeth and more will go back if not the first. Not sure if TB needs any more D, they are pretty strong. I know Nill won't part with Honka, but Guriyanov, Dickenson, Shore, even Nuke or Lindell seem like they would be available.
A bit of an overpay from the Stars perspective, but at the TDL, they gave a lot for a mediocre Russell, so why not give a lot for the key piece in Bishop, and a full year to boot?
For an extra year of Stars true Cup contention (which I think they would be among favorites with Bishop) I can see giving up a first. I can see giving up a prospect. TB needs futures rather than immediate salary.
Maybe a Nemeth and more will go back if not the first. Not sure if TB needs any more D, they are pretty strong. I know Nill won't part with Honka, but Guriyanov, Dickenson, Shore, even Nuke or Lindell seem like they would be available.
A bit of an overpay from the Stars perspective, but at the TDL, they gave a lot for a mediocre Russell, so why not give a lot for the key piece in Bishop, and a full year to boot?
The problem is we absolutely cannot take on salary, nor do we have any protection spots to spare. So the only players of value to us are expansion-exempt ELC players and prospects, and without Honka involved it would take a massive haul of those (of the sort Dallas doesn't have) to even approach Bishop's value. Futures don't interest us unless they'll be ready to fill a key need within the next couple years and Honka is the only piece Dallas has that fits that description.
That being the case they only way I see a deal for Bishop working without Honka coming back our way is if Dallas takes Callahan and either doesn't send a goalie back or sends back Niemi with 50% retained. Basically without Honka involved the only thing Dallas can really offer us as a main piece worthy of Bishop is cap space, and taking Callahan off our hands is the only incentive sufficient to potentially entice us to move Bish. What Dallas would have to add beyond that would depend on whether or not we have to take on Niemi.
And just to clarify: right now Yzerman's likely plan for next summer (if he can't somehow move Filppula or Callahan before then) is to buy out Filppula and sign a cheap backup goalie. If Dallas were to take Callahan off our hands Yzerman would follow the same plan and being rid of Cally would give us a much needed extra $5.8M (minus the cost of his replacement) in cap space. With Niemi coming back at 50% retention Yzerman would again buy out Filppula; Niemi at $2.25M is more than we'd like to pay a backup given our cap crunch but balanced against Callahan's $5.8M off the books we'd still be up $3.55M.
Without retention on Niemi however we're only saving $1.3M swapping him for Callahan; the term would obviously be shorter but that doesn't help us when it matters next summer. And we'd be going from overpaying a skilled defensive and penalty killing forward who simply doesn't score enough to be worth his contract to vastly overpaying a backup goalie. This is a wash at best for us, and certainly doesn't entice us to move Bishop.
Without retention on Niemi however we're only saving $1.3M swapping him for Callahan; the term would obviously be shorter but that doesn't help us when it matters next summer. And we'd be going from overpaying a skilled defensive and penalty killing forward who simply doesn't score enough to be worth his contract to vastly overpaying a backup goalie. This is a wash at best for us, and certainly doesn't entice us to move Bishop.
glovesave_35
Name
Would be very surprised if Nill doesn't stand pat.
Neither Niemi or Lehtonen are ideal Cup contender goalies, but this whole idea of them being a massive hole for Dallas is not only overstated, but at a basic level, untrue. The main difference between last year and the year before was the addition of Niemi. Riding the hot hand in goal took Dallas from out of the playoffs to the top of the standings.
Neither Niemi or Lehtonen are ideal Cup contender goalies, but this whole idea of them being a massive hole for Dallas is not only overstated, but at a basic level, untrue. The main difference between last year and the year before was the addition of Niemi. Riding the hot hand in goal took Dallas from out of the playoffs to the top of the standings.
Honour Over Glory
#firesully
- Jan 30, 2012
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Option 1 - Eat salary, add in sweetener, see if anyone bites.
Option 2 - Increase salary you can retain, take on bad contract at a different position.
You only have those 2 imo.
Shark Finn
∀dministrator
WPG for Pavelec? DET for Howard? Lots of short-term, change of scenery goalie trades out there.
They both have 2 year deals. Hardly crushing.
Both of them!?!? LOL Rongos spending $19m on goalies.
Liferleafer
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What would be wrong with swapping Lupul for one of them?
bad money in, bad money out
why would any team want either one of these players when they also could trade for Bishop?
It will be tough no matter what. Probably the best chance is to wait until during the season and find
- a team needing to get some help do to injury, poor play, etc
- a team looking to reallocate cap from one position or the other
- a team looking at expansion issues. ex: if Colorado decides Pickard is ready to take the #1 spot, they may move Varly. Niemi + something of high value where Niemi could serve a year as a vet backup (or be the expansion selection) and the Avs could get something of value rather than risk exposing Varly to expansion.
Liferleafer
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Lupul will likely end up LTIR....and Enroth can be signed much cheaper. Hell, i would rather buy out Lupul and sign Enroth.
