Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Game Winning Goals Edition

Nick getting recognition.

I'll be crazy a little bit here. But assuming he keeps up his post-4 nation pace and the Habs get in the POs, should he get Hart considerations?

It would give him around 90 points, he would finish between 7 and 12 in scoring.
He might get some votes but hard to imagine him being anywhere close to winning it.
 
But the Habs were must better in 07 than the Habs were in 24.

Just trying to look through the lens of what a voter might look at.

Habs went from no playoffs to 1st in the east, and kovalev was a key catalyst for that turnaround.

The expectation gap was still large.
 
Top 10 LD easy peasy. His claim is as strong as a top 10 LD as Lane.
I want to agree with you based on the eye-test. Ive seen Guhle eat McDavid alive in match-ups, I know how good he is. But the numbers will not necessarily reflect that. Also, there's a LOT of good defensemen around the league. Curious to see your list.
 
Nick Suzuki will never be the habs 3rd best player.

If he is, its because we got insanely lucky and well be a dynasty.

I can definitely see a world where Demidov and Hutson become franchise players in this league while Suzuki is a star. I'm not saying Suzuki will be less valuable to the teams success but he doesn't have the ceiling of the other two who both have close to generational talent
 
I can definitely see a world where Demidov and Hutson become franchise players in this league while Suzuki is a star. I'm not saying Suzuki will be less valuable to the teams success but he doesn't have the ceiling of the other two who both have close to generational talent
If Demi and Hutson are franchise players and we have Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Guhle, Rein and Laine......we will win multiple cups.
 
If Demi and Hutson are franchise players and we have Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Guhle, Rein and Laine......we will win multiple cups.
That's the plan. Gary Bettman personally got involved to try and restore the habs. People talk about his goals before he retires including the new CBA and expansion. I honestly believe one of his goals before he retired was seeing the habs return to being a great franchise.
 
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I want to agree with you based on the eye-test. Ive seen Guhle eat McDavid alive in match-ups, I know how good he is. But the numbers will not necessarily reflect that. Also, there's a LOT of good defensemen around the league. Curious to see your list.
I was strictly talking LDs.
In no order, as of today:

heiskanen (Tough year but his track record is second to none.)
Morrissey
Dahlin
Slavin
Hedman
Theodore
Werenski
Josi (Old, tough year, but Ill give him.
The benefit of the doubt.)
Hughes
Sergachev

Then we got our boys in a pickle with
Byram, Sanderson, Faber and a few vets.

To me Guhle is better defensively than all three, and he hangs offensively despite his incredible defensive deployment. (Outproducing Sanderson and Faber every year theyve played when hes on the ice at 5v5, Byram being the better producer but Guhle being better defensively)

Is Hutson better than Guhle? Hard to say.
I wouldnt take Sanderson ahead of a health guaranteed Guhle or Hutson.
I wouldnt take Faber or Byram either.
Forsling, Toews and Hanifin are three other names Id throw in there.

at worst theyre what? Top 18 at their positions? Immaculate.

I dont think I forgot anyone.
I can definitely see a world where Demidov and Hutson become franchise players in this league while Suzuki is a star. I'm not saying Suzuki will be less valuable to the teams success but he doesn't have the ceiling of the other two who both have close to generational talent
Suzuki IS a star franchise player
 
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Suzuki IS a star franchise player
[/QUOTE]

Okay I'll like Suzuki more than the next guy but people use these title too liberally. It's like the term superstar. Their are probably only 10-15 superstars in this league and that's stretching it. Suzuki is just under superstar status for me. Maybe he gets there if he starts regularly putting up 90+ points and is consistently top 3 in selke voting. When I say franchise player, I mean he completely changes your franchise. Suzuki is great but Lane Hutson is clearly the franchise changer here. Suzuki is just below that imo which is still great. But in terms of tiers, Demidov and Hutson are players that have the ability to compete for the Hart and the Norris respectively in the future
 
I was strictly talking LDs.
In no order, as of today:

heiskanen (Tough year but his track record is second to none.)
Morrissey
Dahlin
Slavin
Hedman
Theodore
Werenski
Josi (Old, tough year, but Ill give him.
The benefit of the doubt.)
Hughes
Sergachev

Then we got our boys in a pickle with
Byram, Sanderson, Faber and a few vets.

To me Guhle is better defensively than all three, and he hangs offensively despite his incredible defensive deployment. (Outproducing Sanderson and Faber every year theyve played when hes on the ice at 5v5, Byram being the better producer but Guhle being better defensively)

Is Hutson better than Guhle? Hard to say.
I wouldnt take Sanderson ahead of a health guaranteed Guhle or Hutson.
I wouldnt take Faber or Byram either.
Forsling, Toews and Hanifin are three other names Id throw in there.

at worst theyre what? Top 18 at their positions? Immaculate.

I dont think I forgot anyone.

Suzuki IS a star franchise player
Okay I'll like Suzuki as much as the next guy but people use these titles too liberally. It's like the term superstar. Their are probably only 10-15 superstars in this league and that's stretching it. Suzuki is just under superstar status for me. Maybe he gets there if he starts regularly putting up 90+ points and is consistently top 3 in selke voting. When I say franchise player, I mean he completely changes your franchise. Suzuki is great but Lane Hutson is clearly the franchise changer here. Suzuki is just below that imo which is still great. But in terms of tiers, Demidov and Hutson are players that have the ability to compete for the Hart and the Norris respectively in the future
 
Okay I'll like Suzuki as much as the next guy but people use these titles too liberally. It's like the term superstar. Their are probably only 10-15 superstars in this league and that's stretching it. Suzuki is just under superstar status for me. Maybe he gets there if he starts regularly putting up 90+ points and is consistently top 3 in selke voting. When I say franchise player, I mean he completely changes your franchise. Suzuki is great but Lane Hutson is clearly the franchise changer here. Suzuki is just below that imo which is still great. But in terms of tiers, Demidov and Hutson are players that have the ability to compete for the Hart and the Norris respectively in the future
Yeah somehow people still find ways to underrate Suzuki. Hes on the level of Barkov. Hes just under the top 5 of centers. Hes a gamebreaker.

right now, theres no contest as to who is the better player between Lane and Nick.
 
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Yeah somehow people still find ways to underrate Suzuki. Hes on the level of Barkov. Hes just under the top 5 of centers. Hes a gamebreaker.

right now, theres no contest as to who is the better player between Lane and Nick.

Right now Suzuki is clearly the best player. Career wise, Hutson has a chance of being the greatest Habs D of all time. And I get it, I was on here saying Suzuki imo has one of the best hockey IQs I've ever seen from a hockey player period. My original point that was implied was if Suzuki is your third best player because Hutson and Demidov are better in the long term, this team is gonna be absolutely nuts.

Hot take, Suzuki is a better player than Toews. There I said it. But Toews was so instrumental to the Hawks dynasty. Probably can be argued that he was either the most or second most important as they won their cups without a legit 2C each time. But take a poll of Blackhawks fans and they'll say Kane and Keith were better
 
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Right now Suzuki is clearly the best player. Career wise, Hutson has a chance of being the greatest Habs D of all time. And I get it, I was on here saying Suzuki imo has one of the best hockey IQs I've ever seen from a hockey player period. My original point that was implied was if Suzuki is your third best player because Hutson and Demidov are better in the long term, this team is gonna be absolutely nuts.

Hot take, Suzuki is a better player than Toews. There I said it. But Toews was so instrumental to the Hawks dynasty. Probably can be argued that he was either the most or second most important as they won their cups without a legit 2C each time. But take a poll of Blackhawks fans and they'll say Kane and Keith were better
Toews was probably the Hawks 3rd best player. Hossa existed too.

The hierarchy of player in the organisation doesnt matter. All that matters is that all of Hutson, Nick, Ivan and Guhle rank in the top percentile of their respective positions. I wouldve put Cole there too but I find hes been disappointing.

Its something all winning teams /STL had, 2-5 players that score top 10-15 at their positions.
 
Toews was probably the Hawks 3rd best player. Hossa existed too.

The hierarchy of player in the organisation doesnt matter. All that matters is that all of Hutson, Nick, Ivan and Guhle rank in the top percentile of their respective positions. I wouldve put Cole there too but I find hes been disappointing.

Its something all winning teams /STL had, 2-5 players that score top 10-15 at their positions.

Agreed. In the team profile Habs have most of the key parts:

2 way 1C - Suzuki
2C - Need to find him
Powerforward - Slafkovsky
Dynamic Winger - Demidov
Top Pair PMD - Hutson
Top Pair 2 way D - Reinbacher?
Total Shutdown D - Guhle
Starting goalie - Fowler?
 
Agreed. In the team profile Habs have most of the key parts:

2 way 1C - Suzuki
2C - Need to find him
Powerforward - Slafkovsky
Dynamic Winger - Demidov
Top Pair PMD - Hutson
Top Pair 2 way D - Reinbacher?
Total Shutdown D - Guhle
Starting goalie - Fowler?

That's a great way of looking at it. It shows the habs at least have good potential to plug in the key holes outside of the 2C.

Still alot question marks, but that is inherent for a team in transition. I think this is the way the habs have mapped out their future, at least, but there's usually twists and turns along the way so let's see what happens.
 
I was strictly talking LDs.
In no order, as of today:

heiskanen (Tough year but his track record is second to none.)
Morrissey
Dahlin
Slavin
Hedman
Theodore
Werenski
Josi (Old, tough year, but Ill give him.
The benefit of the doubt.)
Hughes
Sergachev

Then we got our boys in a pickle with
Byram, Sanderson, Faber and a few vets.

To me Guhle is better defensively than all three, and he hangs offensively despite his incredible defensive deployment. (Outproducing Sanderson and Faber every year theyve played when hes on the ice at 5v5, Byram being the better producer but Guhle being better defensively)

Is Hutson better than Guhle? Hard to say.
I wouldnt take Sanderson ahead of a health guaranteed Guhle or Hutson.
I wouldnt take Faber or Byram either.
Forsling, Toews and Hanifin are three other names Id throw in there.

at worst theyre what? Top 18 at their positions? Immaculate.

I dont think I forgot anyone.

Suzuki IS a star franchise player
Sure, it's close to the point that many players would potentially deserve high spots. The difference is negligible for most. I'd rank Guhle top-20 or 30, but not top-10. Hutson though? He's already in there. One of the most dynamic and intelligent player I've seen play.
 
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Agreed. In the team profile Habs have most of the key parts:

2 way 1C - Suzuki
2C - Need to find him
Powerforward - Slafkovsky
Dynamic Winger - Demidov
Top Pair PMD - Hutson
Top Pair 2 way D - Reinbacher?
Total Shutdown D - Guhle
Starting goalie - Fowler?
Elite 2-way center is often a key component of Cup wins.

Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron, O’Reilly

They may be a notch below the super stars - MacKinnon, Crosby - but still good enough to build a Cup contender around.
 
"Je serais prêt à donner un jeune joueur comme Nick Suzuki pour aller le chercher (Simmonds). Parce que Suzuki, tu vas en avoir des Suzuki dans l'équipe du Canadien. Suzuki c'est comme Byron, Suzuki c'est un petit attaquant qui est bon passeur mais t'as Kotkaniemi qui et là et t'as Lehkonen..."
- Norman Flynn
Reading this it's easier to understand how this organization went from a Turgeon - Damphousse - Koivu center line to the dark ages.

Morons.
 

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