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Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Game Winning Goals Edition

Mrb1p said:
Produced more and was his usual self defensively, how was Cole better? Is it only because Cole was shooting 35%?
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Wrong. Suzuki at the begining of the year looked slow and out of shape and not even close to his usual self.defensively. Caufield looked way more dangerous and suzuki production was basicaly because of Caufield goals
 
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Mrb1p said:
Produced more and was his usual self defensively, how was Cole better? Is it only because Cole was shooting 35%?
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Nick was definitely better the first 25 games. The only stretch Caufield has an argument is the first 11 games and only if you value goals over everything else. There is no stretch of a significant amount of games where Caufield was better.

Production matters, so I won’t downplay his hot start, but even with it, he was being outplayed all over the ice and on the scoresheet.
 
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bud12 said:
Wrong. Suzuki at the begining of the year looked slow and out of shape and not even close to his usual self.defensively. Caufield looked way more dangerous and suzuki production was basicaly because of Caufield goals
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He assisted on 5 of Coles 12 goals to start the season, he had 17 points in that time frame. Cole had 13.
 
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Mrb1p said:
He assisted on 5 of Coles 12 goals to start the season, he had 17 points in that time frame. Cole had 13.
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Suzuki got 22pts in the first 23games. Caufield got 20 pts in the first 23games.
Suzuki got 9 goals during that span.
Caufield got 14 goals during that span

We can even go to 37 games.
36pts for Suzuki and 34pts for Caufield
11g for Suzuki and 19g for Caufield
 
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bud12 said:
Suzuki got 22pts in the first 23games. Caufield got 20 pts in the first 23games.
Suzuki got 9 goals during that span.
Caufield got 14 goals during that span

We can even go to 37 games.
36pts for Suzuki and 34pts for Caufield
11g for Suzuki and 19g for Caufield
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So Suzuki outproduced him at every single time you choose, didnt rely on all-time luck and was of course much better defensively.

So?
 
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bud12 said:
He was definitely not better the first 25 or so game.
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There was definitely a stretch when I was watching where Cole was the most dynamic offensive forward on the team. It reminded me of the Cup run when Caufield was getting non stop breakaway chances but even better.

Trivializing either of him or Suzuki is beyond ridiculous. They’re both studs. Caufield still has plenty of room to improve. Nick might JUST be entering his prime. They’re virtual babies.

Many here short changed both but a bunch of others could tell from that Cup run that they were both gonna be studs.
 
Mrb1p said:
So Suzuki outproduced him at every single time you choose, didnt rely on all-time luck and was of course much better defensively.

So?
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Outproduced him by 2pts while scoring 8 less goals isn't a flex lol. And Im not even going with 5v5 stats because I know it's not even close
 
bud12 said:
Outproduced him by 2pts while scoring 8 less goals isn't flex lol. And Im not even going with 5v5 stats because I know it's not even close
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But you know Suzuki is a selke worthy C and Cole is at best a net neutral player, right?

He would need to severly outproduce him to be worth more than Nick.

Also since when are goals, especially when youre shooting 35%, make you a bettet player? Is Ovechkin the best player of all time?
 
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Mrb1p said:
But you know Suzuki is a selke worthy C and Cole is at best a net neutral player, right?

He would need to severly outproduce him to be worth more than Nick.

Also since when are goals, especially when youre shooting 35%, make you a bettet player? Is Ovechkin the best player of all time?
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I said that Suzuki was not definitely better than Caufield during that SPAN. Suzuki is definitely the better player overall
 
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Mrb1p said:
But you know Suzuki is a selke worthy C and Cole is at best a net neutral player, right?

He would need to severly outproduce him to be worth more than Nick.

Also since when are goals, especially when youre shooting 35%, make you a bettet player? Is Ovechkin the best player of all time?
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Was Guentzel ever better than Crosby for any stretch? Very close in points but outscored him.

When the *primary* task is to get to quiet ice and finish, it’s an entirely different workload.
 
Mrb1p said:
Can you find actual evidence of Cole outproducing Nick this year? Can you make the argument that Cole was a better defensive player than Nick ?

It just seems like an incredible uphill battle.
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It's not. Cole Caufield was our best player in the first half. He was clicking around a point per game and was in the top five for goalscoring.

Defensive usage is a different story. Suzuki is more versatile than pretty much everyone on the team. From that perspective he provides value that others don't. But I'd argue that you can use defensive players in that role regardless. In the first half, Caufield really drove the offense for us. He was electric. I'm not sure where you got the idea that he was Mike Hoffman or that Suzuki has nobody to play with but it's absolute nonsense.

All that being said, it doesn't matter. Suzuki (for the 2nd year in a row) has taken his play up to best player in the league level. Overall, he'll be this year's best player again. Huge props to him. He's put the team on his back. I'd give equal credit to Hutson who's been absolutely phenomenal in the 2nd half as well.

This team is far from the one man show you're saying it is. We've got a top tier sniper. Another guy who's the best PP scorer in the league. A top five scoring blueliner... team is coming along nicely and next year will be better.
 
Ozmodiar said:
Was Guentzel ever better than Crosby for any stretch? Very close in points but outscored him.

When the *primary* task is to get to quiet ice and finish, it’s an entirely different workload.
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Mrb1p said:
Im 100% sure Guentzel was never better than Crosby for any stretch, just like Nick and Cole.
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Players go on streaks for production, a lot of times it is puck luck. When your shooting % is > 30% there’s a huge amount of puck luck involved. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re playing any better either. Nick will always be the better player, almost universally. There will be the odd night where Caufield is more impactful. We are lucky to have both and they both bring different things to the table.

Even when Caufield goes on a tear Nick still outproduces him and then there are all the different ways Nick helps you win that aren’t on the scoresheet. He’s a borderline superstar and only the Habs fanbase could downplay his impact.
 
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BehindTheTimes said:
Players go on streaks for production, a lot of times it is puck luck. When your shooting % is > 30% there’s a huge amount of puck luck involved. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re playing any better either. Nick will always be the better player, almost universally. There will be the odd night where Caufield is more impactful. We are lucky to have both and they both bring different things to the table.

Even when Caufield goes on a tear Nick still outproduces him and then there are all the different ways Nick helps you win that aren’t on the scoresheet. He’s a borderline superstar and only the Habs fanbase could downplay his impact.
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I'm not sure what it is with you and this player. You've just said it's beyond debate, we show you it's not. Now you acknowledge that others can better better in stretches... and then you say people insist on downplaying him. :laugh: Caufield's percentage in the first half was 18 percent btw. And since 4 Nations Suzuki is 25...

Stop with this. It's dumb.

The guy has levelled up in the past two years and he's incredible right now. Just enjoy the ride and stop fixating on anything remotely negative as some kind of insult towards him.
 
BehindTheTimes said:
He put a poll a few years ago and expected CC to come out ahead. NZ, blew him away in it and he’s been stubbornly arguing against Nick ever since. He’ll never admit it, but no offense to Cole, who was super hot in October with 10 Goals in 11 games, but that is the only stretch where you could argue he was better than Nick. He only had 1 assist.
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The “who would you build the team around” poll?

Yeah, that wasn’t close. 90%/10% probably. Should be 100-0 if done today. … We know it wouldn’t tho. :)
 
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Ozmodiar said:
The “who would you build the team around” poll?

Yeah, that wasn’t close. 90%/10% probably. Should be 100-0 if done today. … We know it wouldn’t tho. :)
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Nick Suzuki has been our best player for several years now. The only player who's been as good or better has been Caufield and it's only happened in stretches - not seasons. I've never disputed this.

My arguments for Caufield have always been future based. This is the first real healthy season he's had. I still think he's got the potential for 50+ goal years. His best years are ahead.

As for Suzuki, I felt his ceiling with good teammates would be around 90 points. He might even do that this year. I would never have predicted him being as good as he was down the stretch last year or this year. And I don't think anyone here would either. If you have, please show me.

Suzuki will probably exceed the ceiling I had set. If he's doing 90 now (and he will probably hit that) then he might get to 100 next season. We'll see. That side of the equation I think will exceed my expectations. As for CC, I'll wait until next season before I change my mind. Hopefully a full healthy year one year removed from his shoulder issues. I'll put him down for fifty. We'll see. I think I've underestimated Suzuki (we'll see what he does next year) and I may have overestimated Caufield... but I'm not ready to change my mind yet. He's tracking ahead of where Suzuki was a couple of years ago and I think next year he'll blow it up. But we'll see.
 
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Lafleurs Guy said:
I'm not sure what it is with you and this player. You've just said it's beyond debate, we show you it's not. Now you acknowledge that others can better better in stretches... and then you say people insist on downplaying him. :laugh: Caufield's percentage in the first half was 18 percent btw. And since 4 Nations Suzuki is 25...

Stop with this. It's dumb.

The guy has levelled up in the past two years and he's incredible right now. Just enjoy the ride and stop fixating on anything remotely negative as some kind of insult towards him.
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The only thing dumb is your continued stance on this subject. You’re wrong again about Nick Suzuki. What else is new?
 
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