Niagara IceDogs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread

[coolhandluc44]

you already answerd your own question, its by percentage of the team he played on.

but. conditions of the deals could be that the team accepting the player could agree to take on 100 percent of Niagara's liability on the fees for the year, so niagara's share of that year would be 0 instead of 10k. the other 10k would have went to brantford regardless, but because of how they negotiated the deal, niagara passed the entire 20k for the year over to brantford. there were other trades that were better but did not agree to eat the entire 20k, so niagara didnt explore those.

That makes sense I have a better understanding now of why Niagara fans would fell the ownership is making moves more based on cost rather than the best available return. It is unfortunate if you have bad ownership as Niagara would be an owners dream. Beautiful new arena and a great market to draw fans.

 

[Sam14]

Okay people here have talked about dumb trades BUT my question is

What does this team that you have right now look like is it a competitive team.

As of September 4, Brantford, Brampton, Oshawa, Barrie, Kingston, Sudbury, Ottawa and even North Bay all return stronger rosters than Niagara. IceDogs, who only have one NHL drafted player, needs at least one of those last three teams to be sellers. The only team with fewer are the Petes, they have zero

When this owner, continues to make trades that involve multiple high draft picks and young promising players in attempt to save money and balance the books, it’s disingenuous to a paying fan base entrusting the organization make decisions to build a championship team.

Know this finishing 8th has been Darren's goal and measure of success each of the last 3 years. He has failed twice and it’s possible he could fail a third time, although, I think this year they get in by default. Kind of embarrassing but that happens in junior hockey when only two teams are eliminated.

This is the truth, it will be no different next season, as the fan base and cash flow dwindles, Darren will need to turn draft picks and players into cash. Until there is a change in ownership, expect Niagara to be a bottom feeder.

 

[beastintheeast]

As of September 4, Brantford, Brampton, Oshawa, Barrie, Kingston, Sudbury, Ottawa and even North Bay all return stronger rosters than Niagara. IceDogs, who only have one NHL draft player, needs at least one of those last three teams to be sellers. The only team with fewer are the Petes, they have zero

When this owner, continues to make trades that involve multiple high draft picks and young promising players in attempt to save money and balance the books, it’s disingenuous to a paying fan base entrusting the organization make decision to build a championship team.

Know this finishing 8th has been Darren's goal and measure of success each of the last 3 years. He has failed twice and it’s possible he could fail a third time, although, I think this year they get in by default. Kind of embarrassing but that happens in junior hockey when only two teams are eliminated.

This is truth, it will be no different next season, as the fan base and cash flow dwindles, Darren will need to turn draft picks and players into cash. Until there is a change in ownership, expect Niagara to be a bottom feeder.

Why is it so hard for Niagara fans to answer a simple question? I could really give a crap about other teams unless, of course, it is a fronts or 67.

My question was, what is the team you are icing now look like? Does Boudreau have them playing well?

As far as Sam is concerned it seems that they should just all go home and give the league the points because they don't have a team with NHL players.

Just as trades can mess a team up they can also help.

If the team is so bad why do you even bother to watch them Sam

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I think Sam's assessment is really failing to factor in the growth of some high end young talent. Roobroeck would be a first round NHL pick this year if his birthday had been sooner.

 

[beastintheeast]

One question that people in Kingston had to realize when Springer took over?

I will ask here.

When Burkes went to sell, how many people were offering to buy the team?

You do realize that you have a rookie GM who has little experience so he is going to need assistance from Boudreau and may make some mistakes.

I think Sam's assessment is really failing to factor in the growth of some high end young talent. Roobroeck would be a first round NHL pick this year if his birthday had been sooner.

That is my point. I look at this team, and it has a lot of early-round draft picks. It has a coach that has a pedegree,



I has had some strrange crap happen in the past that has to of affected things BUT all I am asking is what this team looks like at this stage of the season. How are they playing? what seems to be Boudreaus system?

 

[Sam14]

Why is it so hard for Niagara fans to answer a simple question? I could really give a crap about other teams unless, of course, it is a fronts or 67.

My question was, what is the team you are icing now look like? Does Boudreau have them playing well?

No one in Niagara is questioning that they have (and had) some good young talent, but like Niagara did this year with Artem Frolov, there is absolutely no reason to believe the owner will not repeat the same pattern next year (or even this year year don't rule that out yet) and trade more young promising players and draft picks to balance his books and finish 8th. It's just what he does!

The point I'm trying to make is that Darren has no loyalty to players or fans and zero interest in building a championship team.

So, if you want me to answer your question, if by "competitive this year" you mean 8th the answer is maybe.

 

[Sam14]

I think Sam's assessment is really failing to factor in the growth of some high end young talent. Roobroeck would be a first round NHL pick this year if his birthday had been sooner.

No doubt they have some high end talent, but I'll tell you this, if trading Roobroeck at some point during Darren's tenure, can get him out of financial hardship, he will not blink an eye or think twice. Trust me! Don't trust him!

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

One question that people in Kingston had to realize when Springer took over?

I will ask here.

When Burkes went to sell, how many people were offering to buy the team?

You do realize that you have a rookie GM who has little experience so he is going to need assistance from Boudreau and may make some mistakes.


That is my point. I look at this team, and it has a lot of early-round draft picks. It has a coach that has a pedegree,



I has had some strrange crap happen in the past that has to of affected things BUT all I am asking is what this team looks like at this stage of the season. How are they playing? what seems to be Boudreaus system?

I talked to one scout who finally noticed structure under Boudreau. They were playing well and staying in games against high end teams.

I think they'll be 6-8 in the conference this year.

No doubt they have some high end talent, but I'll tell you this, if trading Roobroeck at some point during Darren's tenure, can get him out of financial hardship, he will not blink an eye or think twice. Trust me! Don't trust him!

Chances are slim that Roobroeck ever needs to cash in a scholarship. I don't see him or He ever being traded. But I of course don't trust anything with the other young players at this point.

 

[dirty12]

No one in Niagara is questioning that they have (and had) some good young talent, but like Niagara did this year with Artem Frolov, there is absolutely no reason to believe the owner will not repeat the same pattern next year (or even this year year don't rule that out yet) and trade more young promising players and draft picks to balance his books and finish 8th. It's just what he does!

The point I'm trying to make is that Darren has no loyalty to players or fans and zero interest in building a championship team.

So, if you want me to answer your question, if by "competitive this year" you mean 8th the answer is maybe.

Get over Frolov; he was not going to help the team much this season, and he is definitely not one of the ‘top 4-5 ‘07 born D’.

 

[Sam14]

Get over Frolov; he was not going to help the team much this season, and he is definitely not one of the ‘top 4-5 ‘07 born D’.

Oh ok. Glad we were able to resolve that because you said so. Great insight appreciate it

 

[dirty12]

Oh ok. Glad we were able to resolve that because you said so. Great insight appreciate it

Uncle Sam14, you’re quite welcome.

 

[Sam14]

Uncle Sam14, you’re quite welcome.

Name calling is so childish my goodness. Curious, tell me who was a better 2007 defenseman in the OHL last year than Schaefer, Reid, Cameron, Frolov (Beauchesne would have been in that group if not for the injury). So who bumps Frolov 2 spots down and out of the top 5?

 

[Petes1987]

Name calling is so childish my goodness. Curious, tell me who was a better 2007 defenseman in the OHL last year than Schaefer, Reid, Carson, Frolov (Beauchesne would have been in that group if not for the injury). So who bumps Frolov 2 spots down and out of the top 5?

Peterborough Petes Carson Cameron

 

[OHL4Life]

Peterborough Petes Carson Cameron

petes are the best!

but sorry, hes not as good as schaefer, even if you report me

 

[dirty12]

Name calling is so childish my goodness. Curious, tell me who was a better 2007 defenseman in the OHL last year than Schaefer, Reid, Cameron, Frolov (Beauchesne would have been in that group if not for the injury). So who bumps Frolov 2 spots down and out of the top 5?

Maybe I misunderstood, you meant top 4-5 TOI among ‘07 D?

 

[Sam14]

Maybe I misunderstood, you meant top 4-5 TOI among ‘07 D?

Here is what I wrote. Frolov’s play last season put him among the top 4-5 2007 blue-liners in the entire OHL.
Hey, I like Beauchesne A LOT lets include him. So who bumps Frolov out?

 

[dirty12]

Here is what I wrote. Frolov’s play last season put him among the top 4-5 2007 blue-liners in the entire OHL.
Hey, I like Beauchesne A LOT let’s include him. So who bumps Frolov out?

Schaefer, Reid, Cameron, Barr; Beauchense Dragusica, and (Brustewicz?) but with less TOI; most of Jackson, Singh, Wilson, Handsor, and Velliaris will prove to be better OHL players I think; and probably some other 3-4 round and import picks as well.

I think what matters is Brauti > Frolov over the next two seasons. The pick over payment …can only hope there is a generous part II at the deadline or next off-season.

 

[Sam14]

Schaefer, Reid, Cameron, Barr; Beauchense Dragusica, and (Brustewicz?) but with less TOI; most of Jackson, Singh, Wilson, Handsor, and Velliaris will prove to be better OHL players I think; and probably some other 3-4 round and import picks as well.

I think what matters is Brauti > Frolov over the next two seasons. The pick over payment …can only hope there is a generous part II at the deadline or next off-season.

If you had the time or desire to watch the IceDogs last 15-20 games, no way would you say that any one of the D you mentioned were better than Frolov. No way!
He was phenomenal in all situations and all aspects of the game last year. The kid is an elite talent! Played beyond his years.

 

[dirty12]

If you had the time or desire to watch the IceDogs last 15-20 games, no way would you say that any one of the D you mentioned were better than Frolov. No way!
He was phenomenal in all situations and all aspects of the game last year. The kid is an elite talent! Played beyond his years.

I watched 3 central division games per week, more if counting games with off-set intermissions; including some of the IceDogs’ misfortune of playing 7-16 yr olds in games at the end of the season.
Of first year players I saw a lot of, I like Dragusica > Brauti > Frolov; Frolov is by no means elite.

 

[dogs777]

Looks like Loshko is at practice today

 

[Sam14]

I watched 3 central division games per week, more if counting games with off-set intermissions; including some of the IceDogs’ misfortune of playing 7-16 yr olds in games at the end of the season.
Of first year players I saw a lot of, I like Dragusica > Brauti > Frolov; Frolov is by no means elite.

Second post I’ve screenshot. I’ll repost them after the NHL draft. You clearly have not seen enough of Frolov last year to have any of the ones you named ahead of him in the 2007 draft class.

Further to your post, the picks 2,3,3 (and just for the sake of argument add another pick into the deal if you want) for an undrafted 06 would have been fair enough and a good trade for the rebuild around the 07-08 core. The obvious overpay was 07 Frolov. Including him in the deal is an EMBARRASSMENT!!!
You can argue that all you want but it doesn’t make trading him right for this franchise! It was an idiotic trade by any OHL standard. You can’t build around an 07-08 core when you trade your best and only 07 D. SFS! Fans in Niagara are completely fed up and are demanding change; doing so the only way they can, by not renewing their season tickets and trying to bleed him financially in hopes he sells.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I watched 3 central division games per week, more if counting games with off-set intermissions; including some of the IceDogs’ misfortune of playing 7-16 yr olds in games at the end of the season.
Of first year players I saw a lot of, I like Dragusica > Brauti > Frolov; Frolov is by no means elite.

My own assessment, and based on others that I've talked to is that last season Brauti was much better than Frolov, but the skillset of Frolov was really coming through.

By mid season there's a good chance he would have worked the top powerplay and played at worst, decent 2nd pair minutes. I think next season (25-26) he had a shot at being a #1. I don't see that for Brauti.

The trade made Niagara better today. By mid-season, it could already be a wash, and even already start to sway against them. By next season, I think it's a loss.

I could honestly see Frolov being a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick in the NHL if he puts it together. (He also miss entirely)

 

[dirty12]

My own assessment, and based on others that I've talked to is that last season Brauti was much better than Frolov, but the skillset of Frolov was really coming through.

By mid season there's a good chance he would have worked the top powerplay and played at worst, decent 2nd pair minutes. I think next season (25-26) he had a shot at being a #1. I don't see that for Brauti.

The trade made Niagara better today. By mid-season, it could already be a wash, and even already start to sway against them. By next season, I think it's a loss.

I could honestly see Frolov being a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick in the NHL if he puts it together. (He also miss entirely)

There is nothing wrong with Frolov. He just is not elite, and probably not on PP1 ahead of Wycisk, Virgilio, and all the more offensively talented forwards.

Preseason Top 30 for the 2025 NHL Draft

It's the end of August and that means a new OHL season is right around the corner. It also means that it's time for me to release my first d...

ohlprospects.blogspot.com

Currently, Frolov is not among this list of top 30 OHL first time NHL draft eligible players. The list does not even include this years imports.
Knowing that there will likely be less than 40 OHL 2005-07 born players selected, a Frolov selection inside the top 200 seems a stretch to me at this time.

 

[knowescape]

Why is it so hard for Niagara fans to answer a simple question?

Mostly because the vast majority of us have given up. We aren't in the arena giving DDD our support, or our cash. When the regular season starts I'll contemplate getting an OHL action pack to watch some games.

 

[Sam14]

I watched 3 central division games per week, more if counting games with off-set intermissions;

So it would be fair for me to surmise…you’re not an IceDogs’ fan, you’re not an IceDogs’ season ticket holder, you have not watched all 68 of their games 34 in person (or Artem Frolov’s 67 OHL games), you are not privy to the insider information that is shared among fans in the region or totally aware of the mismanagement associated with this franchise under DeDobbelaer or really know the depths of the problems connected with this team on and off the ice.

Sincere question, do you know why Frolov was traded?