League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[bacchist]

The year we won a cup, we were not a favorite. Many thought that our window had closed. I'm not saying that we are in that situation now, but there are plenty of teams who have won despite not being considered a true contender.

We had 105 points and were first in the division that year. There was no reason to consider us dead money in the playoffs.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

We had 105 points and were first in the division that year. There was no reason to consider us dead money in the playoffs.

Except that's actually what most people thought (including a lot of people on these boards). Nobody picked the Caps to get very far that year. What they are saying about Toronto now, is what they were saying about us then.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Impossible, as far as I can tell.

This is accurate. No way for it to not matter. Caps have to beat the Flyers (or get a point at worst), to make the playoffs.

After all of that. Sigh

 

[Corby78]

The year we won a cup, we were not a favorite. Many thought that our window had closed. I'm not saying that we are in that situation now, but there are plenty of teams who have won despite not being considered a true contender.

We may have not been a favorite but going into the playoffs we were playing good hockey and we had the tallent to make a run. Comparing 2018 and 2024 is silly. We are in a completely different place.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

We may have not been a favorite but going into the playoffs we were playing good hockey and we had the tallent to make a run. Comparing 2018 and 2024 is silly. We are in a completely different place.

I agree, the situation is different, and said as much in my previous post.

In the old NHL, you would suck for a few years, draft a franchise player or two and start the cycle all over again. With the expansion of the league, dilution of talent, and salary cap, I don't know if the old way of building a championship team is viable anymore. I still think draft picks matter, but when you look at the teams that had successful rebuilds, they had some success picking outside the 1st round.

With the parity the league has now, it's very difficult to build a team that will contend year after year (Like the Caps and Pens of the last 15 years). That's why I think it's a more effective strategy to give yourself as many shots as you can and hope that you can get the chemistry and momentum to go your way.

 

[Kuz]

We may have not been a favorite but going into the playoffs we were playing good hockey and we had the tallent to make a run. Comparing 2018 and 2024 is silly. We are in a completely different place.

Still the Caps teams on paper on in 2016 and 2017 where considered better than the 2018 team. All where great and at least one of the other teams could have won it if they had the bounces going there way vs Pens.

From the 2017 season Caps lost Williams and Johansson their 4th and 6th in points and tied for third in goals. Also Winnik left. So the 2018 team was considered to have less depth than the 2017 team. Also Schmidt, Alzner and the failed signing of Shattenkirk where leaving.

The replacement on defence was Kempny (A steal) and Djoos on defence and on forward Smith-Pelly, Stephenson, Vrana and Chiasson.

The biggest thing for 2018 over 2017 was mostly players like Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Wilson, Carlson and Eller being a lot more productive and had a better season than in 2017. In 2017 the 5 players mentioned had 209 points in 2018 they had 311. Wilson's progress was more developmental and usage increasing 16 points. While the other where veterans having a weak 2017 season and a good 2018 season.

 

[g00n]

We may have not been a favorite but going into the playoffs we were playing good hockey and we had the tallent to make a run. Comparing 2018 and 2024 is silly. We are in a completely different place.

I recall Holtby being totally out of form going into the playoffs, and the team stumbling a bit at the end of the regular season. Through his last 12 games BH was above .900 only 4 times. That's why Gruby got the nod to start the playoffs.

They lost 2 of the last 5 games which may not seem like much but their hot streak was only 8 or 9 games in the 2 1/2 weeks preceding. Prior to that, from mid-January to mid-March, they were a .500 team at best and the coach was on thin ice.

So reverting to that .500 or so form was worrying. Then they lost the first 2 to Cbus which made the hot streak seem like even more of a blip to many.

Personally, I thought that was their year so it didn't bother me all that much, but they certainly weren't big time favorites. Having BOS, TOR, and TB fight it out before we had to face any of them was a HUGE bonus.

I'm not sure how the seedings will shake out this year but another favorable draw and some early upsets in other matchups could make another deep run possible, though not at all expected.

That's why they play the games.

 

[bacchist]

I recall Holtby being totally out of form going into the playoffs, and the team stumbling a bit at the end of the regular season. Through his last 12 games BH was above .900 only 4 times. That's why Gruby got the nod to start the playoffs.

They lost 2 of the last 5 games which may not seem like much but their hot streak was only 8 or 9 games in the 2 1/2 weeks preceding. Prior to that, from mid-January to mid-March, they were a .500 team at best and the coach was on thin ice.

So reverting to that .500 or so form was worrying. Then they lost the first 2 to Cbus which made the hot streak seem like even more of a blip to many.

Personally, I thought that was their year so it didn't bother me all that much, but they certainly weren't big time favorites. Having BOS, TOR, and TB fight it out before we had to face any of them was a HUGE bonus.

I'm not sure how the seedings will shake out this year but another favorable draw and some early upsets in other matchups could make another deep run possible, though not at all expected.

That's why they play the games.

If we win these last two games, which might be necessary to make the playoffs, we will have 91 points. Florida had 92 points last year to barely make it into the postseason. They stunned everyone by beating a historic Bruins team in 7 and then just glided into the finals with 1 total loss in rounds 2 & 3.

Not saying we're at all likely to do the same, but 1 point over 82 games in a loser point league is meaningless, so yeah... That's why they play the games

 

[Calicaps]

If we win these last two games, which might be necessary to make the playoffs, we will have 91 points. Florida had 92 points last year to barely make it into the postseason. They stunned everyone by beating a historic Bruins team in 7 and then just glided into the finals with 1 total loss in rounds 2 & 3.

Not saying we're at all likely to do the same, but 1 point over 82 games in a loser point league is meaningless, so yeah... That's why they play the games

I hate the loser point so much. Without those points... that is, if any loss was just zero points... here's the East standings and point totals as of today:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Atl[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. FLA[/TD]
[TD]102[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Bos[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. TML[/TD]
[TD]92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Met[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. NYR[/TD]
[TD]108[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Car[/TD]
[TD]104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Was[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. TBL[/TD]
[TD]88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Det[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Phi[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Buf[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. NJD[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. NYI[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. Pit[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8. Ott[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9. Mtl[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10. CBJ[/TD]
[TD]52[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[bacchist]

I hate the loser point so much. Without those points... that is, if any loss was just zero points... here's the East standings and point totals as of today:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Atl[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. FLA[/TD]
[TD]102[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Bos[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. TML[/TD]
[TD]92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Met[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. NYR[/TD]
[TD]108[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Car[/TD]
[TD]104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Was[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. TBL[/TD]
[TD]88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Det[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Phi[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Buf[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. NJD[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. NYI[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. Pit[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8. Ott[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9. Mtl[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10. CBJ[/TD]
[TD]52[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Unfortunately I don't think it's going anywhere. Bringing back ties would basically mean eliminating the shootout, and I think casual fans like it and the league and networks like it. And although I think the loser point was originally a response to purists who didn't want a team game to be decided by a skills competition, the logjam it can lead to is probably good for ratings overall. So I think we'll be stuck with it for a lot longer.

 

[Calicaps]

Unfortunately I don't think it's going anywhere. Bringing back ties would basically mean eliminating the shootout, and I think casual fans like it and the league and networks like it. And although I think the loser point was originally a response to purists who didn't want a team game to be decided by a skills competition, the logjam it can lead to is probably good for ratings overall. So I think we'll be stuck with it for a lot longer.

I'm not arguing for ties... although I'd be totally happy with that. I'm saying if you win, you win. And if you lose, you lose. Period. This notion that some losses are less lose-y than others is silly. And if you look at those standings, they're not really less logjammed.

 

[bacchist]

I'm not arguing for ties... although I'd be totally happy with that. I'm saying if you win, you win. And if you lose, you lose. Period. This notion that some losses are less lose-y than others is silly. And if you look at those standings, they're not really less logjammed.

I'm right there with you. What I meant about the logjam is those loser points create more of a logjam, so they can sell more "big games" at the end with all these teams bunched up on the bubble. The league and networks see $$$, so it's probably here to stay.

 

[Ridley Simon]

The simple solution is 3-2-1-0 for results. 3 for win, 2 for OT/SO win, 1 for OT/SO loss, 0 for loss.

 

[DWGie26]

I recall Holtby being totally out of form going into the playoffs, and the team stumbling a bit at the end of the regular season. Through his last 12 games BH was above .900 only 4 times. That's why Gruby got the nod to start the playoffs.

They lost 2 of the last 5 games which may not seem like much but their hot streak was only 8 or 9 games in the 2 1/2 weeks preceding. Prior to that, from mid-January to mid-March, they were a .500 team at best and the coach was on thin ice.

So reverting to that .500 or so form was worrying. Then they lost the first 2 to Cbus which made the hot streak seem like even more of a blip to many.

Personally, I thought that was their year so it didn't bother me all that much, but they certainly weren't big time favorites. Having BOS, TOR, and TB fight it out before we had to face any of them was a HUGE bonus.

I'm not sure how the seedings will shake out this year but another favorable draw and some early upsets in other matchups could make another deep run possible, though not at all expected.

That's why they play the games.

I went to most of the playoff games that year. Remember Holtby coming back in and it was magical. We also got contributions from several black aces and depth players who stood out. Takes a total team effort. But let’s just get in and see what happens. Worst case scenario, our litany of young guys gets the experience of the playoffs because it is a totally different level than regular season.

 

[Calicaps]

The simple solution is 3-2-1-0 for results. 3 for win, 2 for OT/SO win, 1 for OT/SO loss, 0 for loss.

I get the argument and used to agree, but to me, it's very 2007. When OT and especially SO were new, everyone was all freaked out about it, so this would have made sense then. But it's been a generation that we've had the OT/SO format to end regular season games. There are players and fans who don't remember anything else. So, absent ties, it seems to me there's really only 2 outcomes: a win or a loss. And parsing degree within those 2 is ridiculous and (I think) unique to pro hockey. It's embarrassing that only our game says some wins are better than others and some losses are less bad than others. WTH?

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Ducks signed a pretty good player in Gauthier.

I hate the loser point so much. Without those points... that is, if any loss was just zero points... here's the East standings and point totals as of today:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Atl[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. FLA[/TD]
[TD]102[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Bos[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. TML[/TD]
[TD]92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Met[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. NYR[/TD]
[TD]108[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Car[/TD]
[TD]104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Was[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. TBL[/TD]
[TD]88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Det[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Phi[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Buf[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. NJD[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. NYI[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. Pit[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8. Ott[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9. Mtl[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10. CBJ[/TD]
[TD]52[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Participation trophies. I hate the current system.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

We had 105 points and were first in the division that year. There was no reason to consider us dead money in the playoffs.

NBCS and all the so called experts were against the Caps. Even in the finals, they were sad the Caps won. I'll always hate Vegas for it because they weren't the 1991 North Stars with washed up veterans. They were a team setup for success by the league and most of the fans jumped on that ship while making fun of the Caps. It was so great for the Caps to give a big FU to the league that year including the NBCS crew.

 

[Corby78]

I get the argument and used to agree, but to me, it's very 2007. When OT and especially SO were new, everyone was all freaked out about it, so this would have made sense then. But it's been a generation that we've had the OT/SO format to end regular season games. There are players and fans who don't remember anything else. So, absent ties, it seems to me there's really only 2 outcomes: a win or a loss. And parsing degree within those 2 is ridiculous and (I think) unique to pro hockey. It's embarrassing that only our game says some wins are better than others and some losses are less bad than others. WTH?

I don’t care much about the points, it’s even for all the teams. I just hate what 3v3 has turned into and the shootout is an abomination

 

[Calicaps]

I don’t care much about the points, it’s even for all the teams. I just hate what 3v3 has turned into and the shootout is an abomination

totally agree about 3-on-3 and the SO. but I truly hate the idea that teams can somehow "lose better" and be rewarded for it. WTF is that?

 

[Roric]

I don't give a damn if we don't go far, I want to see some playoff hockey. Get it done tonight

 

[Ridley Simon]

totally agree about 3-on-3 and the SO. but I truly hate the idea that teams can somehow "lose better" and be rewarded for it. WTF is that?

Because the NHL views the game as a tie. And then the teams play “gimmicky” products to earn the extra point.

I can’t find myself agreeing w your view. It would be a total joke of a team battles for 60min and then loses that point because gimmicks.

I hate the 3pt games. I hate the 3on3 OT. I hate the SO.

But I’d hate for a zero on those even more, were they to go that direction. Losing in regulation is a loss. Losing in the gimmicky portion is a joke.

 

[um]

I hate the loser point so much. Without those points... that is, if any loss was just zero points... here's the East standings and point totals as of today:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Atl[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. FLA[/TD]
[TD]102[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Bos[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. TML[/TD]
[TD]92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Met[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. NYR[/TD]
[TD]108[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Car[/TD]
[TD]104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Was[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. TBL[/TD]
[TD]88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Det[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Phi[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Buf[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. NJD[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. NYI[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. Pit[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8. Ott[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9. Mtl[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10. CBJ[/TD]
[TD]52[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Points for ties after 60 have been around a long time. Getting two points for winning a gimmick is more egregious.

The 3 point system always made the most sense.

 

[Calicaps]

Points for ties after 60 have been around a long time. Getting two points for winning a gimmick is more egregious.

The 3 point system always made the most sense.

true, but that was an even split for a non-win/loss outcome.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You haven’t lived until you’ve sat through a 0-0 tie AND a 1-0 shootout loss….

 

[Hivemind]

Philly post-game thread is an entertaining read right about now. They're rightfully livid at the Laughton-Hatheway line playing more than half of the final minute, while trailing by a season ending goal. And just Torts' roster decisions in general, benching Frost in a game where they only scored one goal and vanished for much of the third period.