League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2022-23 season, Vol. 4, Off-season Edition

[CapitalsCupReality]

Reimer boycotts Sharks' warmup on Pride Night

San Jose Sharks goaltender James Reimer boycotted the team's warmup skate before its home game against the New York Islanders on Saturday because his teammates wore jerseys that support the LGBTQIA+ community on Pride Night.

www.espn.com

 

[usiel]

Reimer boycotts Sharks' warmup on Pride Night

San Jose Sharks goaltender James Reimer boycotted the team's warmup skate before its home game against the New York Islanders on Saturday because his teammates wore jerseys that support the LGBTQIA+ community on Pride Night.

www.espn.com

Hey America where one has the freedom to share what ever opinion on whatever. That freedom doesn't include immunity of criticism for said opinion.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Pens trying hard to miss playoffs and try to get in on Bedard.

 

[um]

Pens trying hard to miss playoffs and try to get in on Bedard.

Don’t you dare.

 

[Corby78]

I have this feeling it’s going to be either Montreal or Phili. Leaning Montreal, and the Canadian fans will be insufferable

 

[g00n]

Reimer boycotts Sharks' warmup on Pride Night

San Jose Sharks goaltender James Reimer boycotted the team's warmup skate before its home game against the New York Islanders on Saturday because his teammates wore jerseys that support the LGBTQIA+ community on Pride Night.

www.espn.com

Glad he's not a Cap.

 

[bacchist]

Glad he's not a Cap.

I can't believe this stuff is tolerated.

 

[Corby78]

I can't believe this stuff is tolerated.

Because people still have religious freedoms? He isn’t stopping anyone from doing what they feel right, just choosing not to participate. I have no issue with this at all. I can’t expect to vioce my beliefs but tel someone else they can’t do the same.

 

[g00n]

Because people still have religious freedoms? He isn’t stopping anyone from doing what they feel right, just choosing not to participate. I have no issue with this at all. I can’t expect to vioce my beliefs but tel someone else they can’t do the same.

When your "religious freedom" threatens someone else's right to simply be equal in society (or even exist at all) then you lose that freedom.

He may not be directly making such a threat but he's going out of his way to show support for it, however misguided or innocent his explanation might be.

 

[Corby78]

When your "religious freedom" threatens someone else's right to simply be equal in society (or even exist at all) then you lose that freedom.

He may not be directly making such a threat but he's going out of his way to show support for it, however misguided or innocent his explanation might be.

Disagree, just because you don’t participate doesn’t mean you want to oppress. That’s a jump of assumption to justify silencing a different viewpoint. People do not need to agree or support in order not to be oppressive.

But we are jumping away from hockey so I’ll leave this topic there.

 

[g00n]

Disagree, just because you don’t participate doesn’t mean you want to oppress. That’s a jump of assumption to justify silencing a different viewpoint. People do not need to agree or support in order not to be oppressive.

But we are jumping away from hockey so I’ll leave this topic there.

There is no other reason for it. He may not think it's oppression but that's the entire point of this: people who oppress OR allow oppression and think they're only following their religious doctrines.

Case in point his hypocritical comments:

This makes absolutely no sense.

If you have nothing but love and respect for everyone including LGBTQ and they "should be welcomed in all aspects of the game of hockey" then why are you publicly boycotting a very simple symbolic gesture like wearing the warm up jersey?

How is that a violation of some unspecified religious conviction, but this contradictory cluster of "don't cancel me" comments is not?

 

[max21]

There is no other reason for it. He may not think it's oppression but that's the entire point of this: people who oppress OR allow oppression and think they're only following their religious doctrines.

Case in point his hypocritical comments:

View attachment 671935

This makes absolutely no sense.

If you have nothing but love and respect for everyone including LGBTQ and they "should be welcomed in all aspects of the game of hockey" then why are you publicly boycotting a very simple symbolic gesture like wearing the warm up jersey?

How is that a violation of some unspecified religious conviction, but this contradictory cluster of "don't cancel me" comments is not?

“I welcome them to the sport of hockey I also don’t hate them, but I’m not going to wear a jersey because it supports them being welcomed into hockey”

 

[YippieKaey]

I respect everyones faith. The problem with religion though is that it is borderline schizophrenic. Like "Jesus loves everyone, it's in the Bible". "Gay people are not ok, it's in the bible".

I really hope Reimer refuses to play games on Sundays, cause violating the Sabbat is punishable by death, according to the Bible.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Be cognizant of forum rules when discussing this topic. It’ll get shut down real quick if it starts moving away from how this relates to hockey.

 

[kicksavedave]

How it relates to hockey is, one can wear a jersey that says "everyone is welcome in this sport" even if one doesn't actually approve of every 'lifestyle' . Wearing the jersey says "you're welcome here", not "I think you're lifestyle is approved". Reimer even tried to say this in words, but won't say it with a jersey. His own words are hypocritical to his own decision.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

When your "religious freedom" threatens someone else's right to simply be equal in society (or even exist at all) then you lose that freedom.

He may not be directly making such a threat but he's going out of his way to show support for it, however misguided or innocent his explanation might be.

What “Threat“ is he making against someone else's right to be equal?

The imaginary man in the sky has inspired many to commit atrocities, but I’m not seeing a threat that would void his own personal freedoms/beliefs.

I see one of hundreds of millions of humans on earth who have a certain faith (that I don’t) that leads them to make all sorts of life decisions based on that faith.

IMO, he’s misguided because he believes in an imaginary figure, and allows that to guide his life, but this Country allows for that and even protects those like him.

He’s just too inconsequential for him to matter on this issue, so I say let him out himself, but he doesn’t really matter (big picture), so live and let live…….

 

[g00n]

What “Threat“ is he making against someone else's right to be equal?

The imaginary man in the sky has inspired many to commit atrocities, but I’m not seeing a threat that would void his own personal freedoms/beliefs.

I see one of hundreds of millions of humans on earth who have a certain faith (that I don’t) that leads them to make all sorts of life decisions based on that faith.

IMO, he’s misguided because he believes in an imaginary figure, and allows that to guide his life, but this Country allows for that and even protects those like him. He’s just too inconsequential for him to matter on this issue.

I never said JR's action itself was a threat. But it is a symptom of the threat.

The comment was made that his "religious freedom" was behind the move and is the reason it should be "tolerated". I'm saying religious freedom is not absolute, and that's why simply citing it is not enough to just excuse every action, especially in this case because those exact religious beliefs are behind much of the persecution of LGBTQ in society.

The news is full of stories about militia groups and lawmakers attacking these people in some way, whether it's physical intimidation or dehumanizing them in some way, so I don't need to rehash them. These events across most professional sports leagues these days are a reaction to those problems.

The threat is coming from the same source Reimer is using to defend his contradictory stance, which suggests his own refusal to participate in a symbolic gesture while espousing inclusion is ignorant, misguided, or disingenuous.

Whatever the explanation for his actions it's all the more reason to stage events like this, as shows how disconnected many people are with the problems being addressed.

tl;dr "methinks he doth protest too much"

 

[HTFN]

What “Threat“ is he making against someone else's right to be equal?

The imaginary man in the sky has inspired many to commit atrocities, but I’m not seeing a threat that would void his own personal freedoms/beliefs.

I see one of hundreds of millions of humans on earth who have a certain faith (that I don’t) that leads them to make all sorts of life decisions based on that faith.

IMO, he’s misguided because he believes in an imaginary figure, and allows that to guide his life, but this Country allows for that and even protects those like him.

He’s just too inconsequential for him to matter on this issue, so I say let him out himself, but he doesn’t really matter (big picture), so live and let live…….

They said he wasn't making a threat overtly, it's more about how the man in the sky has got his thought process so twisted that wearing some rainbow clothes is more harmful to him and his culture than creating a safe place to embolden people who don't believe in his "you belong but you don't really belong" double talk and are just fine if they never see another Pride night again.

They're bricks in the wall and they add up. I don't know how you can think anything else just by looking at the momentum this anti-Pride night movement is gaining in the players. It's hard to say "live and let live" when some people in this conversation aren't being allowed to live, literally and figuratively, in streets and legislation.

You can't stay neutral on a moving train like that. Trying to "abstain" on something so basic and simple and trying to have it both ways in your statement is still moving in a direction, and not a positive and accepting one. I think that's been the whole point of the Hockey is for Everyone thing, and you can't pretend to be a part of that without actually being a part of it.

The comment was made that his "religious freedom" was behind the move and is the reason it should be "tolerated". I'm saying religious freedom is not absolute, and that's why simply citing it is not enough to just excuse every action.

The threat is coming from the same source Reimer is using to defend his contradictory stance, which suggests his own refusal to participate in a symbolic gesture while espousing inclusion is ignorant, misguided, or disingenuous.

This is a good way to say it too.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I never said JR's action itself was a threat. But it is a symptom of the threat.

The comment was made that his "religious freedom" was behind the move and is the reason it should be "tolerated". I'm saying religious freedom is not absolute, and that's why simply citing it is not enough to just excuse every action, especially in this case because those exact religious beliefs are behind much of the persecution of LGBTQ in society.

The news is full of stories about militia groups and lawmakers attacking these people in some way, whether it's physical intimidation or dehumanizing them in some way, so I don't need to rehash them. These events across most professional sports leagues these days are a reaction to those problems.

The threat is coming from the same source Reimer is using to defend his contradictory stance, which suggests his own refusal to participate in a symbolic gesture while espousing inclusion is ignorant, misguided, or disingenuous.

Whatever the explanation for his actions it's all the more reason to stage events like this, as shows how disconnected many people are with the problems being addressed.

tl;dr "methinks he doth protest too much"

so he’s a symptom, not a threat. Therefor we honor his individual beliefs…I guess…

They said he wasn't making a threat overtly, it's more about how the man in the sky has got his thought process so twisted that wearing some rainbow clothes is more harmful to him and his culture than creating a safe place to embolden people who don't believe in his "you belong but you don't really belong" double talk and are just fine if they never see another Pride night again.

They're bricks in the wall and they add up. I don't know how you can think anything else just by looking at the momentum this anti-Pride night movement is gaining in the players. It's hard to say "live and let live" when some people in this conversation aren't being allowed to live, literally and figuratively, in streets and legislation.

You can't stay neutral on a moving train like that. Trying to "abstain" on something so basic and simple and trying to have it both ways in your statement is still moving in a direction, and not a positive and accepting one. I think that's been the whole point of the Hockey is for Everyone thing, and you can't pretend to be a part of that without actually being a part of it.


This is a good way to say it too.

What “momentum“ and what “anti-pride movement among players“ are you referring to? A few players said they won’t wear a warmup jersey, so there’s a “movement”? Sounds like alarmist terminology to incite fear the other way.

 

[HTFN]

so he’s a symptom, not a threat.


What “momentum“ and what “anti-pride movement among players“ are you referring to? A few players said they won’t wear a warmup jersey, so there’s a “movement”? Sounds like alarmist terminology to incite fear the other way.

I mean, I wasn't intending to invoke some sinister shadow cabal imagery.

I don't think it's any coincidence at all that someone finally got into a public stink about it (was it... Provorov? I think that's right), then suddenly the Rangers as a team had their Pride jerseys scrapped not too long after (to the disappointment of the players, it sounds, to be fair. Fans believe it's a Dolan thing), and now here we are again. These people are fighting to move backwards.

Rather than giving a safe space to persecuted folk, elements of publicized NHL content are fighting to make a safe space where "gay" doesn't have to be seen. That's not really reasonably "live and let live".

The only logical outcome would be if the NHL were swearing off any and all theme jerseys

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I mean, I wasn't intending to invoke some sinister shadow cabal imagery.

I don't think it's any coincidence at all that someone finally got into a public stink about it (was it... Provorov? I think that's right), then suddenly the Rangers as a team had their Pride jerseys scrapped not too long after (to the disappointment of the players, it sounds, to be fair. Fans believe it's a Dolan thing), and now here we are again. These people are fighting to move backwards.

Rather than giving a safe space to persecuted folk, elements of publicized NHL content are fighting to make a safe space where "gay" doesn't have to be seen. That's not really reasonably "live and let live".

The only logical outcome would be if the NHL were swearing off any and all theme jerseys

gotcha….

I think if we saw every team, including our own force the jersey issue, vs stick tape, we would see more players opt out…..certainly not some “movement”, just a larger sample. I don’t think a player refusing to wear a warmup also thinks he doesn’t want certain people at games….I think that’s the easy assumption to villainize him.

Anyway interesting topic.

 

[HTFN]

gotcha….

I think if we saw every team, including our own force the jersey issue, vs stick tape, we would see more players opt out…..certainly not some “movement”, just a larger sample. I don’t think a player refusing to wear a warmup also thinks he doesn’t want certain people at games….I think that’s the easy assumption to villainize him.

Anyway interesting topic.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the majority of hockey players are very aware, socially conscious people either. I don't think there's a lot of room in their traditional stereotypical upbringing for it, so sometimes it comes through friends and family but overall I don't expect the majority of them to be aware of this ripple effect.

I do think that someone in Team/NHL PR should be proactively sitting anyone opting out down and explaining this type of optic first though. Formulating a PR statement where you try to be accepting and cool while missing the mark and not actually being accepting and cool is a misfire from all parties, and it's not even really the first time.

It's becoming an alarming misunderstanding of the problem at an organizational level

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the majority of hockey players are very aware, socially conscious people either. I don't think there's a lot of room in their traditional stereotypical upbringing for it, so sometimes it comes through friends and family but overall I don't expect the majority of them to be aware of this ripple effect.

I do think that someone in Team/NHL PR should be proactively sitting anyone opting out down and explaining this type of optic first though. Formulating a PR statement where you try to be accepting and cool while missing the mark and not actually being accepting and cool is a misfire from all parties, and it's not even really the first time.

It's becoming an alarming misunderstanding of the problem at an organizational level

Totally agree…..but I think it’s more than singling out individuals, the NHL should present the program to each team of players….right now, it’s half-hearted voluntary support by the league.

I suspect the NHLPA would immediately be against it if they made it mandatory for all teams/players….which would create and interesting situation If they were forced to defend the minority of their members against being forced to participate.

 

[Calicaps]

There is no other reason for it. He may not think it's oppression but that's the entire point of this: people who oppress OR allow oppression and think they're only following their religious doctrines.

Case in point his hypocritical comments:

View attachment 671935

This makes absolutely no sense.

If you have nothing but love and respect for everyone including LGBTQ and they "should be welcomed in all aspects of the game of hockey" then why are you publicly boycotting a very simple symbolic gesture like wearing the warm up jersey?

How is that a violation of some unspecified religious conviction, but this contradictory cluster of "don't cancel me" comments is not?

this. what a load of garbage that statement is. either you love everyone and support them or you don't. can't have it both ways.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Well done moneypuck