League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2020 Offseason Edition - Vol. 10

[tenken00]

Yep. There has been a slight uptick recently which you don’t want to see, I was just pointing out that it’s not nearly as bad right now as the raw case numbers would indicate.

The hospitalization and death rate actually did slightly decrease last week according to the CDC chart so we’ll see in the next few weeks if that reverses and becomes a third wave or if it keeps plateauing/decreasing. Hopefully if there is a third wave, it follows suit from the second wave and is less lethal than the previous one.

Well your link shows up to Oct 17. All indicators has went up in the last week. But I take all your points and agree.

 

[Kalopsia]

Daily Testing Trends in the US - Johns Hopkins

According to this chart, the positivity rate is actually near the all-time lows right now. And cases don’t necessarily correlate to sick people, hospitalized people or number of deaths. Obviously, the less cases the better, but that’s not really the best statistic to be looking at when you realize how much the US tests and how large the population is.

Deaths/hospitalizations (the people that are getting extremely sick) are a better statistic to look at and the daily deaths for the country are generally at their lowest points since mid June - mid July, while the hospitalization rate is the lowest since March, according to this chart from the CDC.

COVIDView, Key Updates for Week 42


Not saying this thing is in the rear view mirror by any means, just that cases are going to keep rising as testing increases. And while the positivity rate has increased slightly in October, it has been nowhere near as concerning as the raw number of cases would lead you to believe. Just some context (and positivity!).

Looking at the US as a whole isn't particularly useful since outbreaks are so regional. Some states are doing really well right now like New York and California and that pulls the national numbers down, but there are a lot of states seeing spikes. If you go state by state, you'll see that the upper middle of the country is getting hit hard right now. Cross reference that with a temperature map and you'll see why people are freaking out about what's going to happen over the winter.

 

[895]

Coyotes are a joke of a franchise.

It's one thing to make the Miller pick. It's another to renounce it after the media gets a bit too hot.

Either do your due diligence on the kid and be prepared for the firestorm or don't make the pick at all.

 

[tenken00]

Coyotes are a joke of a franchise.

It's one thing to make the Miller pick. It's another to renounce it after the media gets a bit too hot.

Either do your due diligence on the kid and be prepared for the firestorm or don't make the pick at all.

Well to be somewhat fair, their GM Bill Armstrong wasn't allowed to be a part of the draft process.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Coyotes are a joke of a franchise.

It's one thing to make the Miller pick. It's another to renounce it after the media gets a bit too hot.

Either do your due diligence on the kid and be prepared for the firestorm or don't make the pick at all.

They made the right choice after making a very bad one. No tears will be shed from me for Miller; he deserves every bit of the backlash and negative press he's getting and more and so do the Coyotes for making the pick in the first place.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Painful lesson, but happy to see a-hole bullying dealt with harshly. And yes they are a joke.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

They made the right choice after making a very bad one. No tears will be shed from me for Miller; he deserves every bit of the backlash and negative press he's getting and more and so do the Coyotes for making the pick in the first place.

They were fully aware of what had happened when they made the pick. They changed their minds because it was making them look bad. They deserve less than zero credit. It's two wrong choices, not a right one after a wrong one.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

They were fully aware of what had happened when they made the pick. They changed their minds because it was making them look bad. They deserve less than zero credit. It's two wrong choices, not a right one after a wrong one.

Don't totally agree. They didn't double down on their mistake by digging in their heels and claiming they did due diligence and are confident he's grown and moved forward and blah blah. They definitely shouldn't receive "credit," per se, but to say it's the wrong choice is not accurate in my opinion. Two wrong choices would have been drafting them and then keeping him. He should have never been drafted but cutting him loose is better than keeping him in the organization, even if they only made that decision due to publish backlash.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

Don't totally agree. They didn't double down on their mistake by digging in their heels and claiming they did due diligence and are confident he's grown and moved forward and blah blah. They definitely shouldn't receive "credit," per se, but to say it's the wrong choice is not accurate in my opinion. Two wrong choices would have been drafting them and then keeping him. He should have never been drafted but cutting him loose is better than keeping him in the organization, even if they only made that decision due to publish backlash.

Well, a right decision in terms of result but made for the wrong reason.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Paralyzed ex-BU hockey player Roy dies at 45

Sad....RIP.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Paralyzed ex-BU hockey player Roy dies at 45

Sad....RIP.

Agreed. (Can’t “Like” this post, obvious reasons)

 

[HTFN]

Don't totally agree. They didn't double down on their mistake by digging in their heels and claiming they did due diligence and are confident he's grown and moved forward and blah blah. They definitely shouldn't receive "credit," per se, but to say it's the wrong choice is not accurate in my opinion. Two wrong choices would have been drafting them and then keeping him. He should have never been drafted but cutting him loose is better than keeping him in the organization, even if they only made that decision due to publish backlash.

I mean, they sort of did the first time around, with that statement about how they were committed to being a part of the solution and showing him a better way and whatever else.

 

[Ajax1995]

Painful lesson, but happy to see a-hole bullying dealt with harshly. And yes they are a joke.

So if I am understanding correctly the issue is that he never actually apologized to the kid he bullied? My understanding is he wrote a letter to every team, acknowledging the bullying, taking full responsibility, and apologizing. I believe he was 14 when this occurred also. But again maybe I’m not understanding the issue.

 

[Ridley Simon]

So if I am understanding correctly the issue is that he never actually apologized to the kid he bullied? My understanding is he wrote a letter to every team, acknowledging the bullying, taking full responsibility, and apologizing. I believe he was 14 when this occurred also. But again maybe I’m not understanding the issue.

The issue is that he did it. From where I sit. That’s the root problem....and if you read about what he did, it’s rather disturbing. Some stuff that is really cruel, maybe even demented.

ok, so fast forward to now. Sure, he wrote letters to perspective employers. That’s nice. However it seems he never really apologized to the kid be tortured, and to some people, hasn’t shown any remorse for his actions.

this country is really good at giving 2nd chances, but you gotta earn it. Doesn’t seem like Miller has done anything to earn his 2nd chance. A memo you can copy and send doesn’t move the needle much.

at least, not for me.

 

[g00n]

The issue is that he did it. From where I sit. That’s the root problem....and if you read about what he did, it’s rather disturbing. Some stuff that is really cruel, maybe even demented.

ok, so fast forward to now. Sure, he wrote letters to perspective employers. That’s nice. However it seems he never really apologized to the kid be tortured, and to some people, hasn’t shown any remorse for his actions.

this country is really good at giving 2nd chances, but you gotta earn it. Doesn’t seem like Miller has done anything to earn his 2nd chance. A memo you can copy and send doesn’t move the needle much.

at least, not for me.

I'm not up on the details of the story and probably don't want/need to hear more to make my minor point, which is that America is good at giving second chances not because of maturity as a culture but rather crappy long-term memory and powerful short-term self interest. If you can get past being cancelled entirely you generally just have to wait long enough for someone else to become the pariah and then you reappear with a shiny new whatever that turns on the "gimme" reaction.

For a draftee with some bad shit in his past that probably means formally apologizing to everyone and then keeping his mouth shut while finding some way to perform and get another look next year.

 

[Hivemind]

So if I am understanding correctly the issue is that he never actually apologized to the kid he bullied? My understanding is he wrote a letter to every team, acknowledging the bullying, taking full responsibility, and apologizing. I believe he was 14 when this occurred also. But again maybe I’m not understanding the issue.

Apologizing to NHL teams isn't the same as apologizing to his victim. That letter to NHL teams was a strategic choice to try and further his career, and didn't help reconcile with his victim. He doesn't owe NHL teams an apology, he owes his victim an apology. Further still, multiple teams that interviewed him came away with the impression that he was not remorseful about his actions.

He bullied this kid for seven+ years. It wasn't just a momentary lapse in judgement, but rather a sustained series of behavior that drew attention for adults, school administrators, and even the legal system. He's had years to attempt to reconcile his behavior and show true remorse, and he hasn't done so.

 

[OV Rocks]

Apologizing to NHL teams isn't the same as apologizing to his victim. That letter to NHL teams was a strategic choice to try and further his career, and didn't help reconcile with his victim. He doesn't owe NHL teams an apology, he owes his victim an apology. Further still, multiple teams that interviewed him came away with the impression that he was not remorseful about his actions.

He bullied this kid for seven+ years. It wasn't just a momentary lapse in judgement, but rather a sustained series of behavior that drew attention for adults, school administrators, and even the legal system. He's had years to attempt to reconcile his behavior and show true remorse, and he hasn't done so.

What sucks is that on paper, and in the headlines, all that people read about the situation is that he bullied a kid (pretty badly) when he was 14 years old. In a vacuum we all did stupid stuff, wrong stuff, when we are 14 and it is brutal to see that a young man's career, and life, will be changed forever because of something he did before he even had peach fuzz on his face.

In most situations you hope the person would be remorseful, learn, and move on with his life a better person, and I think that the Coyotes cannot be blamed for wanting to be a solution or a resource for him.

HOWEVER.....

This is not like most situations, the kid really hasn't shown any genuine remorse (from what I read and hear) and the only reason he has said anything was to get drafted and home that it got kept under the rug. The kid is a jerk, I think that anyone who grew up playing youth hockey always had that one kid on the team that was an a-hole through and through, that is who this kid is.

 

[Ajax1995]

Apologizing to NHL teams isn't the same as apologizing to his victim. That letter to NHL teams was a strategic choice to try and further his career, and didn't help reconcile with his victim. He doesn't owe NHL teams an apology, he owes his victim an apology. Further still, multiple teams that interviewed him came away with the impression that he was not remorseful about his actions.

He bullied this kid for seven+ years. It wasn't just a momentary lapse in judgement, but rather a sustained series of behavior that drew attention for adults, school administrators, and even the legal system. He's had years to attempt to reconcile his behavior and show true remorse, and he hasn't done so.

Ok I honestly didn’t have any clue about this story until I read it on Yahoo this morning. Just so I’m not confusing things, Miller was ages 7-14 when this was occurring?

I’m not sure what true remorse looks like in this scenario exactly but I agree it includes apologizing to the victim.

 

[Hivemind]

Ok I honestly didn’t have any clue about this story until I read it on Yahoo this morning. Just so I’m not confusing things, Miller was ages 7-14 when this was occurring?

I’m not sure what true remorse looks like in this scenario exactly but I agree it includes apologizing to the victim.

It started when they were in 2nd grade, and continued at least until the legal system had to become involved when he was 14. The victim's mother alleges that Miller has harassed her son as recently as 2 years ago. The mother also alleges the only reason he agreed to plea out in the case what that they had security camera footage showing Miller bashing her son's head into a brick wall.

I think almost all of us could forgive him for dumb actions as a child/teenager. We all make dumb decisions during those years. But when it's a continued streak for many years, including drawing the attention of parents, school administration, and even the legal system, it's not something you can pin on being an isolated dumb incident. At that point it's a sustained pattern of behavior that Miller continued to perpetrate in spite of authority figures. We may still be able to forgive him as he matures, but repentance and reconciliation need to be the first steps. And that places on the onus on Miller, not anyone else.

I can't say what true remorse looks like from a distance, either. But the fact that neither the mother (who has accepted the apology of another perpetrator) nor several NHL franchises have seen that remorse (with at least one NHL scout saying their interview with Miller about the incident caused them to place Miller on their Do Not Draft list) is pretty convincing to me.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Paralyzed ex-BU hockey player Roy dies at 45

Sad....RIP.

I was 10 when this happened and remember it having a profound impact on me. I was a kid playing ice hockey living in the Northeast so playing at BU or BC or Maine might as well have been the NHL as far as I was concerned and it was the dream for all of us. I don't think I even knew what the word paralyzed was or meant until this happened and when my dad explained that he could never use his arms or legs again, I remember feeling shocked that something like that could happen from hockey... almost like a loss of innocence in some regards. Can't even imagine what he went through the past 25 years but he's improved the lives of thousands of people through his work and that's a life well lived.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

It started when they were in 2nd grade, and continued at least until the legal system had to become involved when he was 14. The victim's mother alleges that Miller has harassed her son as recently as 2 years ago. The mother also alleges the only reason he agreed to plea out in the case what that they had security camera footage showing Miller bashing her son's head into a brick wall.

I think almost all of us could forgive him for dumb actions as a child/teenager. We all make dumb decisions during those years. But when it's a continued streak for many years, including drawing the attention of parents, school administration, and even the legal system, it's not something you can pin on being an isolated dumb incident. At that point it's a sustained pattern of behavior that Miller continued to perpetrate in spite of authority figures. We may still be able to forgive him as he matures, but repentance and reconciliation need to be the first steps. And that places on the onus on Miller, not anyone else.

I can't say what true remorse looks like from a distance, either. But the fact that neither the mother (who has accepted the apology of another perpetrator) nor several NHL franchises have seen that remorse (with at least one NHL scout saying their interview with Miller about the incident caused them to place Miller on their Do Not Draft list) is pretty convincing to me.

Couldn't put it any better than what you've mentioned your last few comments on the subject. He was borderline sadistic towards a disabled kid for the better part of a decade. That's not a mistake or a lapse in judgment, it's cruelty to the core.

I'm honestly almost more appalled by his parents. Their comments are so nonchalant about the whole thing and they're almost pegging their son as the victim for receiving all of this negative press. It's no wonder the kid hasn't shown any remorse.

 

[g00n]

Couldn't put it any better than what you've mentioned your last few comments on the subject. He was borderline sadistic towards a disabled kid for the better part of a decade. That's not a mistake or a lapse in judgment, it's cruelty to the core.

I'm honestly almost more appalled by his parents. Their comments are so nonchalant about the whole thing and they're almost pegging their son as the victim for receiving all of this negative press. It's no wonder the kid hasn't shown any remorse.

Just from what I've read today it doesn't sound good. Teams may look at this guy as "a violent jerk with a bad upbringing who happens to be good at hockey" and pass on him entirely.

TBH if bashing a disabled kid's head into a brick wall is part of the complaint, and this went on for years, then apologies may not be enough to clear the waters. I would hope for some serious therapy and community service over a few years before maybe giving the guy another shot in his 20s, if I were an NHL team.

edit: the more I read the more disgusted I become. No NHL team should want to be associated with this unless he spends an equal amount of time showing the opposite behavior. Some of us who are older remember when mainstream culture actually promoted all sorts of bullying, racism, homophobia, etc far more than it does today. Someone growing up in this era really, really has to know better even as a teenager.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

This made me think of that college baseball player that was revealed to have molested his niece when he was 15. He forgot to register as a sex offender when he moved to a different state and that's how the story got out. Except no one dared to draft him, thank God. And how does this Miller guy get the nerve to bully anyone when he's missing a damn forehead?!? Brain the size of a golf ball probably.

 

[Corby78]

The issue is that he did it. From where I sit. That’s the root problem....and if you read about what he did, it’s rather disturbing. Some stuff that is really cruel, maybe even demented.

ok, so fast forward to now. Sure, he wrote letters to perspective employers. That’s nice. However it seems he never really apologized to the kid be tortured, and to some people, hasn’t shown any remorse for his actions.

this country is really good at giving 2nd chances, but you gotta earn it. Doesn’t seem like Miller has done anything to earn his 2nd chance. A memo you can copy and send doesn’t move the needle much.

at least, not for me.

I agree with everything you said (it’s about his attitude now and if he had changed and is really remorseful). In no way should we be condemning people’s future because of a horrible decision when they are 14.

my only question is, what changed since the draft? How much interaction with this kid did they have to say “this kid hasn’t changed”.

 

[g00n]

I agree with everything you said (it’s about his attitude now and if he had changed and is really remorseful). In no way should we be condemning people’s future because of a horrible decision when they are 14.

my only question is, what changed since the draft? How much interaction with this kid did they have to say “this kid hasn’t changed”.

From what I read he was still bullying up until 2 years prior to the draft, or 16yrs old. Did I read that wrong?

Lightning Round: Mother of bullying victim pens letter to Arizona Coyotes, Mitchell Miller

With this kind of record the burden of proof is not going to be on the team to show why they think he HASN'T changed. It will be on the perpetrator who has a very bad track record extending back many years, including at least within the last 2 years.

From my experience kids don't change for the better between 16 and 18 if they were already doing this stuff, they just have access to more resources, like cars/friends/alcohol/drugs/etc.

Is it possible there was a miracle transformation in the last 2 years? Maybe. But MM has to show that progress in order to overpower the stink of the fairly recent behavior.

Kids pay for dumb things they do all the time, even at 14. Stupid decisions you make leading to discipline, or bad grades tanking your placement, or not making the team...it all affects your prospects. Why should this be any different? It's not a court of law, it's a business decision that's often based on character.

His future is not being condemned by anyone but himself. He can choose to right the wrongs. His unwillingness to do so, even as noted by a judge and as recently as apologizing to the NHL teams but not the victim, is on him.