NHL Playoff VsX, 1918-2016

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Still not seeing the VsX angle when GP and opponent strength are so wildly different for every player's raw numbers. For instance, 4 points in 7 games against 2012 Philadelphia should not be held on the same level as 4 points in 4 games against 1999 Dallas. And you're obviously more likely to have five "deep" runs in the Original Six when 33.3% of teams are in the Finals than you are now.

Isn't this exactly the same for literally every stat in the book, because different teams play in different divisions/conferences against different teams? I think at a certain level you have to "assume" that a lot of the quality of competition "comes out in the wash" by the time you aggregate 5 or more seasons/playoffs into the sample. Otherwise you have to just throw out every single raw stat (goals, assists, GAA, SV%, everything) as "inconclusive and meaningless".

To back up, I agree with you in the strictest theoretical sense, but I believe it would be uselessly cumbersome to come up with detailed enough correction factors to satisfy you for EVERYTHING. By the same token, I think it would be foolish NOT to judge players on some level by their stats, as imperfect as they may be at a "raw" level. I mean, it's mostly just for conversation anyway, but I'm not suggesting that attempts to improve what can be discerned from stats shouldn't be made.

 

[seventieslord]

...And then again, there's no way Coffey puts up similar numbers if he's lining up with, say, the Flyers instead.

And also, if he puts up, say, 4 more points, it's probably because Kurri (or whoever the benchmark is) put up 5 more, and his score ends up about the same as it would have been.

 

[seventieslord]

I just put together all the numbers going to the start of the stanley cup era.

I wanted every player to have just one line per season, which means their league playoff (if any) and cup final/challenge are included in one line.

Just for fun, I did a VsX of those numbers. These are the players from before the NHL, outside of the NHL, or NHL players whose time overlapped the challenge era who are affected by these changes:

Frank McGee | 539
Frank Foyston | 469
Frank Nighbor | 432
Jack Walker | 398
Nels Stewart | 393
Mickey MacKay | 391
Howie Morenz | 380
Bill Cook | 346
Punch Broadbent | 334
Frank Frederickson | 332
Bernie Morris | 328
Newsy Lalonde | 324
Harry Oliver | 307
Cy Denneny | 305
Jack Darragh | 305
Art Duncan | 295
Marty Walsh | 292
Smokey Harris | 287
Alf Smith | 283
Alf Skinner | 283
Aurele Joliat | 277
Cyclone Taylor | 270
Ernie Russell | 267
Joe Malone | 263
Didier Pitre | 254
Harry Trihey | 253

Notes:

- Frank McGee was a bloody dominant scorer. In the type of playoffs that he participated in, his competition was mostly crap, so his raw numbers overrate him. But, he's compared in this system to the next highest scoring member of his own team, and that should be good competition, and he still looks excellent.

- His only teammate to make this list was Alf Smith.

- Foyston does appear to be the most prolific scorer of this era. He got into a lot of playoffs, advanced often, and was often among the scoring leaders.

- Nighbor looks good here.

- Bet you thought Jack Darragh would look better here... so did I.

- Alf Skinner was like the Dick Duff of his day.

- Bernie Morris and Nels Stewart are on this list just by having one monster year and padding their score with a few pedestrian playoffs.

- Really nice showing by a guy like Punch Broadbent, whose weak regular season numbers see him take a kicking around here.

- Art Duncan is the only defenseman to show up. He and Cook were two of the pioneers of the idea that defensemen should participate in the offense.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Differences

The differences between Frank Nighbour and Cyclone Taylor or Frank Foyston and Cyclone Taylor are striking and demand an explanation.

If Alf Skinner is the Dick Duff then what do we make of Aurele Joliat? Contemporary of Morenz. Played six more playoff games. Both scored 22pts in the playoffs. Joliat 9G 13 A, Morenz 13G 9 A.

 

[seventieslord]

The differences between Frank Nighbour and Cyclone Taylor or Frank Foyston and Cyclone Taylor are striking and demand an explanation.

Nighbor just had a lot more opportunities in the playoffs - nearly twice as many - and so he only had to hit the jackpot half as often to do well by playoff VsX.

In 1915 he was dominant with 10 points, earning a score of 167.
In 1920, he met the benchmark of 7 points (100 score)
His decent 1921, 1922 and 1923 playoffs earned scores of 63, 60 and 43.

Taylor was dominant in 1915 with 9 points and earned a score of 150.
He met the 1918 benchmark with 11 points and a score of 100.
His only three other playoffs saw him earn 1 in 3, 1 in 2, and 0 in 1 (scores of 13, 8 and 0) which adds little to nothing to his playoff record.

Basically, they both had two excellent playoff runs but nighbor supplemented his with more decent playoffs (18 more points in 33 more games as opposed to 2 in 6)

Foyston's best 5 years are even better than Nighbor's:

1920: A very dominant 10 points that earns a 143 score
1917: a dominant 10 points that earns a 111 score
1919: meets the benchmark of 13 points for a score of 100
1914: a solid 3 points for a 75 score
1926: 2 points for a 40 score

If Alf Skinner is the Dick Duff then what do we make of Aurele Joliat? Contemporary of Moren. Played six more playoff games. Both scored 22pts in the playoffs. Joliat 9G 13 A, Morenz 13G 9 A.

My comment about Alf Skinner was making note of the fact that he was never close to the best player on his team, yet at playoff time his timely scoring made him more important. His 1918 and 1921 playoffs both saw him finish 2nd in points.

I believe you were just summing up Joliat and Morenz's NHL playoff points. They both played in two finals against western teams which are now included here. Joliat scored 28 points in 53 playoff games in his career, and Morenz scored 33 in 47, for 33% more points per game, so it should not be surprising that he'd be ahead in Playoff VsX by almost that exact proprtion.

Morenz:
125 (1924)
100 (1925)
63 (1931)
50 (1930)
43 (1933)

Joliat:
75 (1924)
67 (1929)
50 (1931)
43 (1937)
43 (1930)

Similar bones, but lacking the meat.

 

[MXD]

...This begs the question : how did you treated "separate" playoffs? Did you put in two benchmarks?

Not much comments other than not being surprised at the three Franks at the top. If anything, I thought MacKay would've been closer to Nighbor (and not in some kind of virtual tie with Nels Stewart).

I also expected Lloyd Cook and Babe Dye to at least show up.

 

[seventieslord]

...This begs the question : how did you treated "separate" playoffs? Did you put in two benchmarks?

Not much comments other than not being surprised at the three Franks at the top. If anything, I thought MacKay would've been closer to Nighbor (and not in some kind of virtual tie with Nels Stewart).

I also expected Lloyd Cook and Babe Dye to at least show up.

It all got consolidated into one leaderboard.

And, not sure if you realize this, but Babe Dye was scoreless (as in, zero points) in five of the six playoffs he appeared in.

 

[MXD]

It all got consolidated into one leaderboard.

And, not sure if you realize this, but Babe Dye was scoreless (as in, zero points) in five of the six playoffs he appeared in.

OOOOPPPS. That's what happens when HR is your main source of info : you might ****up somewhere.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Thank You

Nighbor just had a lot more opportunities in the playoffs - nearly twice as many - and so he only had to hit the jackpot half as often to do well by playoff VsX.

In 1915 he was dominant with 10 points, earning a score of 167.
In 1920, he met the benchmark of 7 points (100 score)
His decent 1921, 1922 and 1923 playoffs earned scores of 63, 60 and 43.

Taylor was dominant in 1915 with 9 points and earned a score of 150.
He met the 1918 benchmark with 11 points and a score of 100.
His only three other playoffs saw him earn 1 in 3, 1 in 2, and 0 in 1 (scores of 13, 8 and 0) which adds little to nothing to his playoff record.

Basically, they both had two excellent playoff runs but nighbor supplemented his with more decent playoffs (18 more points in 33 more games as opposed to 2 in 6)

Foyston's best 5 years are even better than Nighbor's:

1920: A very dominant 10 points that earns a 143 score
1917: a dominant 10 points that earns a 111 score
1919: meets the benchmark of 13 points for a score of 100
1914: a solid 3 points for a 75 score
1926: 2 points for a 40 score



My comment about Alf Skinner was making note of the fact that he was never close to the best player on his team, yet at playoff time his timely scoring made him more important. His 1918 and 1921 playoffs both saw him finish 2nd in points.

I believe you were just summing up Joliat and Morenz's NHL playoff points. They both played in two finals against western teams which are now included here. Joliat scored 28 points in 53 playoff games in his career, and Morenz scored 33 in 47, for 33% more points per game, so it should not be surprising that he'd be ahead in Playoff VsX by almost that exact proprtion.

Morenz:
125 (1924)
100 (1925)
63 (1931)
50 (1930)
43 (1933)

Joliat:
75 (1924)
67 (1929)
50 (1931)
43 (1937)
43 (1930)

Similar bones, but lacking the meat.

Thank you for shedding some light. Still there seems to be a disparity between the game opportunities in the NHL and for the western players.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=31198

1920 Nighbor did not have any NHL playoff games since the Senators won both halves of the regular season, going directly to the SC final against the west.Likewise players on the western finalist in the SC tended to have played an extra series. Best of three versus two game total goals makes a difference as well.

Realize that the Joliat/Morenz comparison data was NHL only. Basically the 1925 SCF against the west where Morenz scored 11 pts - 8G and 3A versus Joliat scoring only 2G seems to carry a value of 103 points.

Would be interesting, not necessarily practical, to see within the NHL, within the west, maybe each western league and the SC final.

 

[seventieslord]

Thank you for shedding some light. Still there seems to be a disparity between the game opportunities in the NHL and for the western players.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=31198

1920 Nighbor did not have any NHL playoff games since the Senators won both halves of the regular season, going directly to the SC final against the west.Likewise players on the western finalist in the SC tended to have played an extra series. Best of three versus two game total goals makes a difference as well.

This is all true. Luckily, the west only had that extra series a couple of times so it doesn't affect a whole lot.

Realize that the Joliat/Morenz comparison data was NHL only. Basically the 1925 SCF against the west where Morenz scored 11 pts - 8G and 3A versus Joliat scoring only 2G seems to carry a value of 103 points.

Also, in 1924, with Morenz having 10 points and Joliat 6, that's a 50 point swing. 1925 is worth 75 extra points, and then they kind of go back and forth from there.

Would be interesting, not necessarily practical, to see within the NHL, within the west, maybe each western league and the SC final.

Correct, interesting but not practical. For one thing, despite the disparities it creates, i like the amalgamated data that at least turns most post-1913 seasons into something with a legit playoff bracket and a sample size worth taking about. The numbers from the little 2-game PCHA finals, for example, wouldn't tell us much.

That said, if I could have easily put it together, I might have, but my source was SIHR, and they combine all league and cup playoffs into one line when looking at a season panel for convenience. There would be too many extra steps on my part to separate it out.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Defensive Hockey

This is all true. Luckily, the west only had that extra series a couple of times so it doesn't affect a whole lot.



Also, in 1924, with Morenz having 10 points and Joliat 6, that's a 50 point swing. 1925 is worth 75 extra points, and then they kind of go back and forth from there.



Correct, interesting but not practical. For one thing, despite the disparities it creates, i like the amalgamated data that at least turns most post-1913 seasons into something with a legit playoff bracket and a sample size worth taking about. The numbers from the little 2-game PCHA finals, for example, wouldn't tell us much.

That said, if I could have easily put it together, I might have, but my source was SIHR, and they combine all league and cup playoffs into one line when looking at a season panel for convenience. There would be too many extra steps on my part to separate it out.

Starting to see how applications for defensive performance may derive. The benefits of playing with Nighbor - Taylor 1915. 1920 Nighbor vs Foyston, 1925 what defensive strategy/player(s) produced the Joliat/Morenz gap.

O6 is where it could start getting interesting.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Is there any way to fix this one? Tables are missing.

 

[seventieslord]

Is there any way to fix this one? Tables are missing.

Good point. I'll eventually update this and post new tables.

 

[ImporterExporter]

@seventieslord Any chance you've had time to work on this? Would really love to see these tables especially with the ATD going on.

Thanks sir!

 

[Hockey Outsider]

@seventieslord Any chance you've had time to work on this? Would really love to see these tables especially with the ATD going on.

Thanks sir!

If someone has the yearly benchmarks saved it should be fairly easy for me to calculate everything.

 

[ImporterExporter]

If someone has the yearly benchmarks saved it should be fairly easy for me to calculate everything.

Darn, I think the regular season benchmarks are readily available but not sure about the postseason #'s. Hopefully 70's can chime in. If he has them, as you said, the calculations shouldn't take to long.

 

[seventieslord]

# | Name | VsX5P 1 | Wayne Gretzky | 685 2 | Gordie Howe | 583 3 | Maurice Richard | 575 4 | Jean Beliveau | 559 5 | Bernie Geoffrion | 550 6 | Phil Esposito | 549 7 | Joe Sakic | 543 8 | Guy Lafleur | 528 9 | Mario Lemieux | 518 10 | Ted Kennedy | 517 11 | Evgeni Malkin | 512 12 | Sidney Crosby | 505 13 | Frank Boucher | 501 14 | Dickie Moore | 498 15 | Bobby Hull | 497 16 | Ted Lindsay | 496 17 | Mike Bossy | 492 18 | Mark Messier | 490 19 | Jacques Lemaire | 485 20 | Frank Mahovlich | 484 21 | Peter Forsberg | 481 22 | Sergei Fedorov | 481 23 | Stan Mikita | 476 24 | Bryan Trottier | 475 25 | Doug Gilmour | 471 26 | Toe Blake | 466 27 | Jari Kurri | 461 28 | Elmer Lach | 456 29 | Yvan Cournoyer | 456 30 | Howie Morenz | 455 31 | Steve Yzerman | 449 32 | Norm Ullman | 447 33 | Cy Denneny | 446 34 | Patrick Kane | 435 35 | Sid Abel | 435 36 | Max Bentley | 434 37 | Marty Barry | 429 38 | Mike Modano | 427 39 | Rick MacLeish | 424 40 | Alex Delvecchio | 420 41 | Denis Savard | 412 42 | Johnny Bucyk | 410 43 | Henri Richard | 408 44 | Marian Hossa | 406 45 | Brett Hull | 404 46 | Gordie Drillon | 404 47 | Carl Liscombe | 403 48 | Fleming MacKell | 397 49 | Glenn Anderson | 397 50 | Syl Apps | 397 51 | Patrik Elias | 394 52 | Jaromir Jagr | 393 53 | Bobby Clarke | 392 54 | Mark Recchi | 390 55 | Ron Francis | 389 56 | Charlie Conacher | 388 57 | Jonathan Toews | 387 58 | Daniel Briere | 386 59 | Brian Propp | 383 60 | Milt Schmidt | 383 61 | Ryan Getzlaf | 382 62 | Henrik Zetterberg | 379 63 | Syd Howe | 377 64 | Bill Cowley | 376 65 | Bobby Rousseau | 372 66 | Ken Hodge | 367 67 | Claude Lemieux | 363 68 | Newsy Lalonde | 363 69 | Bobby Smith | 359 70 | Dick Duff | 357 71 | Martin St. Louis | 354 72 | Kevin Stevens | 353 73 | Brad Richards | 348 74 | Chris Drury | 348 75 | Justin Williams | 347 76 | Jim Pappin | 346 77 | Joe Mullen | 346 78 | Rod Brind'Amour | 346 79 | Bill Cook | 344 80 | Adam Oates | 343 81 | Steve Shutt | 343 82 | Bill Barber | 341 83 | Busher Jackson | 340 84 | Joe Carveth | 340 85 | Cooney Weiland | 336 86 | Red Kelly | 335 87 | Bert Olmstead | 333 88 | Frank Nighbor | 333 89 | Ken Linseman | 331 90 | Buddy O'Connor | 328 91 | Jean Ratelle | 328 92 | Pete Mahovlich | 328 93 | Bernie Federko | 324 94 | David Krejci | 321 95 | John Tonelli | 321 96 | Jude Drouin | 321 97 | Reggie Leach | 321 98 | Butch Keeling | 319 99 | Roy Conacher | 319 100 | Pavel Datsyuk | 318 101 | Nick Metz | 316 102 | Mats Naslund | 315 103 | Steve Larmer | 315 104 | Daniel Alfredsson | 314 105 | John Sorrell | 314 106 | Jamie Langenbrunner | 312 107 | Petr Sykora | 312 108 | Patrick Sharp | 311 109 | Aurele Joliat | 310 110 | Joe Thornton | 310 111 | Mike Richards | 309 112 | Rick Middleton | 308 113 | Paul Thompson | 307 114 | Bob Bourne | 306 115 | Gilbert Perreault | 305 116 | Mud Bruneteau | 304 117 | Joe Primeau | 303 118 | Floyd Curry | 301 119 | Peter McNab | 300 120 | Brendan Shanahan | 299 121 | Jeff Carter | 298 122 | Rick Tocchet | 298 123 | Butch Goring | 297 124 | Cecil Dillon | 296 125 | Esa Tikkanen | 296 126 | Joe Pavelski | 296 127 | Clark Gillies | 294 128 | Harry Oliver | 294 129 | John LeClair | 294 130 | Mush March | 294 131 | Billy Reay | 293 132 | Dit Clapper | 293 133 | Gregg Sheppard | 293 134 | Johnny Gottselig | 293 135 | George Armstrong | 292 136 | Dennis Hull | 291 137 | Brian Bellows | 289 138 | Lanny McDonald | 289 139 | Scott Gomez | 289 140 | Doc Romnes | 288 141 | Johan Franzen | 288 142 | Patrick Marleau | 288 143 | Don McKenney | 287 144 | Jeremy Roenick | 287 145 | Vincent Damphousse | 287 146 | Bob Pulford | 286 147 | Anze Kopitar | 285 148 | Corey Perry | 285 149 | Herbie Lewis | 285 150 | Igor Larionov | 285 151 | Peter Stastny | 284 152 | Phil Kessel | 284 153 | Joe Nieuwendyk | 283 154 | Vyacheslav Kozlov | 281 155 | Darryl Sittler | 280 156 | Herb Cain | 280 157 | Logan Couture | 280 158 | Nels Stewart | 280 159 | Ralph Backstrom | 280 160 | Craig Janney | 279 161 | Luc Robitaille | 279 162 | Murray Murdoch | 279 163 | Pete Stemkowski | 276 164 | Claude Provost | 275 165 | Dave Keon | 275 166 | Phil Watson | 271 167 | Bernie Nicholls | 270 168 | Jason Spezza | 270 169 | Alex Ovechkin | 267 170 | Bun Cook | 267 171 | Chico Maki | 267 172 | Dany Heatley | 267 173 | Don Grosso | 267 174 | Milan Hejduk | 267 175 | Neil Colville | 266 176 | Pavel Bure | 266 177 | Sid Smith | 266 178 | Steve Thomas | 266 179 | Tomas Holmstrom | 266 180 | Wayne Cashman | 266 181 | Marian Gaborik | 265 182 | Patrice Bergeron | 265 183 | Theoren Fleury | 265 184 | Bobby Schmautz | 264 185 | Martin Straka | 264 186 | Metro Prystai | 264 187 | Adam Deadmarsh | 263 188 | Doug Weight | 263 189 | Geoff Courtnall | 259 190 | Stephane Richer | 259 191 | Alex Kovalev | 257 192 | Cam Neely | 257 193 | Claude Giroux | 257 194 | Doug Mohns | 257 195 | Gary Roberts | 257 196 | Jason Arnott | 256 197 | J.P. Parise | 255 198 | Bob Nystrom | 254 199 | Jarome Iginla | 254 200 | Ab McDonald | 253 201 | Valeri Kamensky | 253 202 | Frank St. Marseille | 251 203 | John MacLean | 251 204 | Milan Lucic | 251 205 | Alex Shibicky | 250 206 | Fred Stanfield | 250 207 | Pierre Turgeon | 249 208 | Steve Payne | 249 209 | Teemu Selanne | 249 210 | Trevor Linden | 248 211 | Chris Kunitz | 247 [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[seventieslord]

| Name | VsX5P 1 Denis Potvin | 442 2 Bobby Orr | 423 3 Paul Coffey | 405 4 Nicklas Lidstrom | 404 5 J.C. Tremblay | 368 6 Larry Robinson | 365 7 Al MacInnis | 360 8 Flash Hollett | 339 9 Chris Chelios | 329 10 Brad Park | 328 11 Larry Murphy | 323 12 Chris Pronger | 322 13 Sergei Zubov | 313 14 Ray Bourque | 308 15 Doug Harvey | 306 16 Brian Leetch | 303 17 Pierre Pilote | 301 18 Sandis Ozolinsh | 297 19 Scott Niedermayer | 296 20 Duncan Keith | 290 21 Brian Rafalski | 284 22 Serge Savard | 257 23 Guy Lapointe | 256 24 Pat Stapleton | 256 25 Paul Reinhart | 252 26 Harry Cameron | 250 27 Kris Letang | 250 [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[seventieslord]

If a mod wants to go in there and format that better, feel free. I don't get the new formatting yet.

Updated for 2018. Malkin and Crosby now find themselves 11th and 12th all-time.

Getzlaf makes another decent sized leap with yet another impressive showing - now 61st all-time.

Kessel gets on the list, and all the way up to 152nd.

Kunitz makes the very bottom of the list.

Those are the only additions. Backstrom had a strong showing which almost got him there, but not quite. Ovechkin's 8 points didn't count among his 5 best playoffs, so he stays put.

 

[seventieslord]

#	|	Name	|	VsX5P
1	|	Wayne Gretzky	|	685
2	|	Gordie Howe	|	583
3	|	Maurice Richard	|	575
4	|	Jean Beliveau	|	559
5	|	Bernie Geoffrion	|	550
6	|	Phil Esposito	|	549
7	|	Joe Sakic	|	543
8	|	Guy Lafleur	|	528
9	|	Mario Lemieux	|	518
10	|	Ted Kennedy	|	517
11	|	Evgeni Malkin	|	512
12	|	Sidney Crosby	|	505
13	|	Frank Boucher	|	501
14	|	Dickie Moore	|	498
15	|	Bobby Hull	|	497
16	|	Ted Lindsay	|	496
17	|	Mike Bossy	|	492
18	|	Mark Messier	|	490
19	|	Jacques Lemaire	|	485
20	|	Frank Mahovlich	|	484
21	|	Peter Forsberg	|	481
22	|	Sergei Fedorov	|	481
23	|	Stan Mikita	|	476
24	|	Bryan Trottier	|	475
25	|	Doug Gilmour	|	471
26	|	Toe Blake	|	466
27	|	Jari Kurri	|	461
28	|	Elmer Lach	|	456
29	|	Yvan Cournoyer	|	456
30	|	Howie Morenz	|	455
31	|	Steve Yzerman	|	449
32	|	Norm Ullman	|	447
33	|	Cy Denneny	|	446
34	|	Patrick Kane	|	435
35	|	Sid Abel	|	435
36	|	Max Bentley	|	434
37	|	Marty Barry	|	429
38	|	Mike Modano	|	427
39	|	Rick MacLeish	|	424
40	|	Alex Delvecchio	|	420
41	|	Denis Savard	|	412
42	|	Johnny Bucyk	|	410
43	|	Henri Richard	|	408
44	|	Marian Hossa	|	406
45	|	Brett Hull	|	404
46	|	Gordie Drillon	|	404
47	|	Carl Liscombe	|	403
48	|	Fleming MacKell	|	397
49	|	Glenn Anderson	|	397
50	|	Syl Apps	|	397
51	|	Patrik Elias	|	394
52	|	Jaromir Jagr	|	393
53	|	Bobby Clarke	|	392
54	|	Mark Recchi	|	390
55	|	Ron Francis	|	389
56	|	Charlie Conacher	|	388
57	|	Jonathan Toews	|	387
58	|	Daniel Briere	|	386
59	|	Brian Propp	|	383
60	|	Milt Schmidt	|	383
61	|	Ryan Getzlaf	|	382
62	|	Henrik Zetterberg	|	379
63	|	Syd Howe	|	377
64	|	Bill Cowley	|	376
65	|	Bobby Rousseau	|	372
66	|	Ken Hodge	|	367
67	|	Claude Lemieux	|	363
68	|	Newsy Lalonde	|	363
69	|	Bobby Smith	|	359
70	|	Dick Duff	|	357
71	|	Martin St. Louis	|	354
72	|	Kevin Stevens	|	353
73	|	Brad Richards	|	348
74	|	Chris Drury	|	348
75	|	Justin Williams	|	347
76	|	Jim Pappin	|	346
77	|	Joe Mullen	|	346
78	|	Rod Brind'Amour	|	346
79	|	Bill Cook	|	344
80	|	Adam Oates	|	343
81	|	Steve Shutt	|	343
82	|	Bill Barber	|	341
83	|	Busher Jackson	|	340
84	|	Joe Carveth	|	340
85	|	Cooney Weiland	|	336
86	|	Red Kelly	|	335
87	|	Bert Olmstead	|	333
88	|	Frank Nighbor	|	333
89	|	Ken Linseman	|	331
90	|	Buddy O'Connor	|	328
91	|	Jean Ratelle	|	328
92	|	Pete Mahovlich	|	328
93	|	Bernie Federko	|	324
94	|	David Krejci	|	321
95	|	John Tonelli	|	321
96	|	Jude Drouin	|	321
97	|	Reggie Leach	|	321
98	|	Butch Keeling	|	319
99	|	Roy Conacher	|	319
100	|	Pavel Datsyuk	|	318
101	|	Nick Metz	|	316
102	|	Mats Naslund	|	315
103	|	Steve Larmer	|	315
104	|	Daniel Alfredsson	|	314
105	|	John Sorrell	|	314
106	|	Jamie Langenbrunner	|	312
107	|	Petr Sykora	|	312
108	|	Patrick Sharp	|	311
109	|	Aurele Joliat	|	310
110	|	Joe Thornton	|	310
111	|	Mike Richards	|	309
112	|	Rick Middleton	|	308
113	|	Paul Thompson	|	307
114	|	Bob Bourne	|	306
115	|	Gilbert Perreault	|	305
116	|	Mud Bruneteau	|	304
117	|	Joe Primeau	|	303
118	|	Floyd Curry	|	301
119	|	Peter McNab	|	300
120	|	Brendan Shanahan	|	299
121	|	Jeff Carter	|	298
122	|	Rick Tocchet	|	298
123	|	Butch Goring	|	297
124	|	Cecil Dillon	|	296
125	|	Esa Tikkanen	|	296
126	|	Joe Pavelski	|	296
127	|	Clark Gillies	|	294
128	|	Harry Oliver	|	294
129	|	John LeClair	|	294
130	|	Mush March	|	294
131	|	Billy Reay	|	293
132	|	Dit Clapper	|	293
133	|	Gregg Sheppard	|	293
134	|	Johnny Gottselig	|	293
135	|	George Armstrong	|	292
136	|	Dennis Hull	|	291
137	|	Brian Bellows	|	289
138	|	Lanny McDonald	|	289
139	|	Scott Gomez	|	289
140	|	Doc Romnes	|	288
141	|	Johan Franzen	|	288
142	|	Patrick Marleau	|	288
143	|	Don McKenney	|	287
144	|	Jeremy Roenick	|	287
145	|	Vincent Damphousse	|	287
146	|	Bob Pulford	|	286
147	|	Anze Kopitar	|	285
148	|	Corey Perry	|	285
149	|	Herbie Lewis	|	285
150	|	Igor Larionov	|	285
151	|	Peter Stastny	|	284
152	|	Phil Kessel	|	284
153	|	Joe Nieuwendyk	|	283
154	|	Vyacheslav Kozlov	|	281
155	|	Darryl Sittler	|	280
156	|	Herb Cain	|	280
157	|	Logan Couture	|	280
158	|	Nels Stewart	|	280
159	|	Ralph Backstrom	|	280
160	|	Craig Janney	|	279
161	|	Luc Robitaille	|	279
162	|	Murray Murdoch	|	279
163	|	Pete Stemkowski	|	276
164	|	Claude Provost	|	275
165	|	Dave Keon	|	275
166	|	Phil Watson	|	271
167	|	Bernie Nicholls	|	270
168	|	Jason Spezza	|	270
169	|	Alex Ovechkin	|	267
170	|	Bun Cook	|	267
171	|	Chico Maki	|	267
172	|	Dany Heatley	|	267
173	|	Don Grosso	|	267
174	|	Milan Hejduk	|	267
175	|	Neil Colville	|	266
176	|	Pavel Bure	|	266
177	|	Sid Smith	|	266
178	|	Steve Thomas	|	266
179	|	Tomas Holmstrom	|	266
180	|	Wayne Cashman	|	266
181	|	Marian Gaborik	|	265
182	|	Patrice Bergeron	|	265
183	|	Theoren Fleury	|	265
184	|	Bobby Schmautz	|	264
185	|	Martin Straka	|	264
186	|	Metro Prystai	|	264
187	|	Adam Deadmarsh	|	263
188	|	Doug Weight	|	263
189	|	Geoff Courtnall	|	259
190	|	Stephane Richer	|	259
191	|	Alex Kovalev	|	257
192	|	Cam Neely	|	257
193	|	Claude Giroux	|	257
194	|	Doug Mohns	|	257
195	|	Gary Roberts	|	257
196	|	Jason Arnott	|	256
197	|	J.P. Parise	|	255
198	|	Bob Nystrom	|	254
199	|	Jarome Iginla	|	254
200	|	Ab McDonald	|	253
201	|	Valeri Kamensky	|	253
202	|	Frank St. Marseille	|	251
203	|	John MacLean	|	251
204	|	Milan Lucic	|	251
205	|	Alex Shibicky	|	250
206	|	Fred Stanfield	|	250
207	|	Pierre Turgeon	|	249
208	|	Steve Payne	|	249
209	|	Teemu Selanne	|	249
210	|	Trevor Linden	|	248
211	|	Chris Kunitz	|	247

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[seventieslord]

|	Name	|	VsX5P
1	Denis Potvin	|	442
2	Bobby Orr	|	423
3	Paul Coffey	|	405
4	Nicklas Lidstrom	|	404
5	J.C. Tremblay	|	368
6	Larry Robinson	|	365
7	Al MacInnis	|	360
8	Flash Hollett	|	339
9	Chris Chelios	|	329
10	Brad Park	|	328
11	Larry Murphy	|	323
12	Chris Pronger	|	322
13	Sergei Zubov	|	313
14	Ray Bourque	|	308
15	Doug Harvey	|	306
16	Brian Leetch	|	303
17	Pierre Pilote	|	301
18	Sandis Ozolinsh	|	297
19	Scott Niedermayer	|	296
20	Duncan Keith	|	290
21	Brian Rafalski	|	284
22	Serge Savard	|	257
23	Guy Lapointe	|	256
24	Pat Stapleton	|	256
25	Paul Reinhart	|	252
26	Harry Cameron	|	250
27	Kris Letang	|	250

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Epsilon]

Not surprised at all by the first 4 names on the d-man list, and the order. Tremblay at #5 is interesting.

 

[BraveCanadian]

edit: cause I'm dumb