NHL Making Contingency Plans for Arena-less Coyotes? (All Relo Speculation Here)
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Dave is a killer
Dave's a Mess
Silver can't actually say a team is coming or it'll put the league at risk for litigation. Right now at this moment the bucks still don't get a new arena done and they are running out time or actually are out of time. If bucks can't get it done that team is moving and could move to seattle.
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
You can't please everyone though. I've spent a while on this and I can't figure out what the hell to do with Detroit and Columbus. To make things more complicated, Detroit is even further west than Columbus is. I think going with geographical names is silly so I went with the old division names. I arbitrarily came up with 2 new divisions after the MVP and scoring champion titles since Norris is best defenseman, Adams is best coach etc...
Campbell Conference
Ross
Los Angeles
Anaheim
San Jose
Vancouver
(Seattle or Vegas would do nicely here)
Smythe
Edmonton
Calgary
Winnipeg
Colorado
Minnesota (move them central if you get a team in Vega or Seattle)
Norris
Chicago
St. Louis
Dallas
Nashville
Wales Conference
Patrick
New York Rangers
New York Islanders
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Detroit***** it works in principle but they and Columbus are odd man out
Adams
Montreal
Buffalo
Boston
Toronto
Ottawa
Quebec City **** no other division really makes sense to me
Hart
Washington
Tampa Bay
Florida
Carolina
Columbus**** hard to put them here but you can somewhat rationalize doing it based on geography
I'm doing my damnedest to keep things even at 16/14 but if Quebec (who in the worst case scenario would have their team play in the Colisee Pepsi for a year before moving to their new arena) gets a team then forget about it.
Campbell Conference
Ross
Los Angeles
Anaheim
San Jose
Vancouver
(Seattle or Vegas would do nicely here)
Smythe
Edmonton
Calgary
Winnipeg
Colorado
Minnesota (move them central if you get a team in Vega or Seattle)
Norris
Chicago
St. Louis
Dallas
Nashville
Wales Conference
Patrick
New York Rangers
New York Islanders
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Detroit***** it works in principle but they and Columbus are odd man out
Adams
Montreal
Buffalo
Boston
Toronto
Ottawa
Quebec City **** no other division really makes sense to me
Hart
Washington
Tampa Bay
Florida
Carolina
Columbus**** hard to put them here but you can somewhat rationalize doing it based on geography
I'm doing my damnedest to keep things even at 16/14 but if Quebec (who in the worst case scenario would have their team play in the Colisee Pepsi for a year before moving to their new arena) gets a team then forget about it.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
I guess we'll see then. I wish I had no horse in that race and could analyze things more rationally.
That is not going to happen. The team will leave the state and go elsewhere with those kind of demands.
GuelphStormer
Registered User
what is the formula? the difference between what the new owner is willing to pay overall and what the current owner is willing/forced to accept to sell?
the difference between the value of the team in it's current market and the value in the new market.
Detroit's not going back.
And Detroit doesn't "have their way" or run the league, if anything Toronto does.
Why would the nhl ever agree to this, especially for a team they previously owned?
The nhl is not covering the losses for any team it doesn't own for 2 or 3 years. Ever
And I hope the league never gets another ownership position again
Las Vegas - If they get an NHL. team it would be via expansion team because Gary Bettman & the rest the NHL. BOG. would want to milk William Foley for as much as they can in expansion fees like I said Vegas is not getting in for cheap via relocation .
Seattle - Has no arena & the politicians in Seattle have said no to help fund a new arena so at best a shovel won't be put in the ground for a new arena for a least 4 years so there out
Portland - Dose not want an NHL. team & the guy who owns the arena Paul Allen dose not want an NHL. team ether
Kansas City - Dose not want an NHL. team they want an NBA. team
Quebec City - They got a new arena that is almost finished the fan base & ownership but I am seeing them more as getting an expansion team rather than a relocated team reason why same as Vegas to milk as much money out of Quebecor as possible
Hamilton - Has the arena that needs a few more upgrades but otherwise ready to go also there is ownership waiting in the wings for an NHL. team in Hamilton according to Don Robertson an unpaid advisor for this guy or group & I don't think MLSE. is the issue it's Buffalo that is the problem but there argument that NHL. team in Hamilton would hurt them is completely trumped up & bogus especially when you consider the Red Hill expressway links the 403 to the QEW. has been finished for some time now not to mention the new Go train station downtown will be open soon & most of the out of town hockey fans would becoming from west of the city or southwestern Ontario not so much from Niagara Region & GTA. If any thing it would give the Sabres & Leafs a swift kick in the butt to get more competitive & start winning .
Houston - I believe that bridge was burned long ago when Les Alexander tried to scoop the Oilers & move them to Houston then tried to go the expansion rout in 1997 that failed so I think Houston is off the table & has no interest in the NHL. anymore.
So In conclusion I believe Las Vegas , Quebec City & Hamilton are the only cities right now that have any interest in the NHL. so in my opinion the NHL. should move the coyotes to one of those 3 cities & award to expansion teams to the other 2 .
Seattle - Has no arena & the politicians in Seattle have said no to help fund a new arena so at best a shovel won't be put in the ground for a new arena for a least 4 years so there out
Portland - Dose not want an NHL. team & the guy who owns the arena Paul Allen dose not want an NHL. team ether
Kansas City - Dose not want an NHL. team they want an NBA. team
Quebec City - They got a new arena that is almost finished the fan base & ownership but I am seeing them more as getting an expansion team rather than a relocated team reason why same as Vegas to milk as much money out of Quebecor as possible
Hamilton - Has the arena that needs a few more upgrades but otherwise ready to go also there is ownership waiting in the wings for an NHL. team in Hamilton according to Don Robertson an unpaid advisor for this guy or group & I don't think MLSE. is the issue it's Buffalo that is the problem but there argument that NHL. team in Hamilton would hurt them is completely trumped up & bogus especially when you consider the Red Hill expressway links the 403 to the QEW. has been finished for some time now not to mention the new Go train station downtown will be open soon & most of the out of town hockey fans would becoming from west of the city or southwestern Ontario not so much from Niagara Region & GTA. If any thing it would give the Sabres & Leafs a swift kick in the butt to get more competitive & start winning .
Houston - I believe that bridge was burned long ago when Les Alexander tried to scoop the Oilers & move them to Houston then tried to go the expansion rout in 1997 that failed so I think Houston is off the table & has no interest in the NHL. anymore.
So In conclusion I believe Las Vegas , Quebec City & Hamilton are the only cities right now that have any interest in the NHL. so in my opinion the NHL. should move the coyotes to one of those 3 cities & award to expansion teams to the other 2 .
They go kicked out of Winnipeg, the 60 million was extra that didn't go to Atlanta Spirit.
I agree. If they sue the city I hope they never get a dime of tax money ever again. Things like this really remind you who is number 4 in the US.
The leafs pay the costs to be the boss ( tip Mr king).
But detroit being in the west for so long didn't do them any favors and if you intend to send them back, you are going to need a whole lot more than " pretty please".
Seattle - You do realize there is an arena being played in Tukwila, washington
Portland - Portland was reported to actually wanting to buy the coyotes after the team ended up staying. Paul Allen is very much interested in a NHL team as long as it is the right price.
Kansas city- There is no interest in a NBA team or a NHL team nor there is any actually government support.
Hamilton - Has no new arena and why in the world does the NHL want to make it the league balance more lopsided balance wise. Toronto and Buffalo will fight that
Quebec - City of last resort for western team relocation and expansion but is an option for a eastern conference team that has to relocate and that could happen soon.
My conclusion the league will be better in terms of revenue (long term) and growth of the sport with Coyotes going to portland and expansion seattle and Vegas.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
This is completely false. He admitted publicly to interest in this very team before the last time the Coyotes were saved. The problem is Allen isn't willing to pay through the nose for it, but his interest is believed to be there these days.
I actually think Portland is the front runner for an immediate Arizona relocation. Not Quebec or Hamilton, but in my opinion Portland is at the top of the queue if this scenario unfolds quickly. Them and Vegas should they be ready enough would make the most sense from a league boardroom and vision standpoint.
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
Portland would be a very practical solution. Vegas would be a hell of a gamble to make after years of taking losses in the desert.
You have to imagine that the last thing the NHL wants is another eastern team due to alignment reasons.
You have to imagine that the last thing the NHL wants is another eastern team due to alignment reasons.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
I think that the idea that anyone is getting in cheap via expansion or relocation is a construct of these boards. Teams are worth what they're worth, Portland, Seattle, or anyone else isn't going to get a special deal for whatever reason we decide to prescribe. It just doesn't make business sense.
-First western cities with money on the table and the prerequisite attributes for the teams get the teams, it's the only thing that makes sense.
-First eastern city with the money on the table and the prerequisite attributes for the teams get the first eastern relocation or an expansion once the difference in conference members is an even number after their team is moved/awarded.
It seems too simple to not be the case.
I see what you are doing there but no, guaranteeing a loan doesn't make them an owner. They sailed that ship a whole ago. The albatross is on someone else's neck.
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
- 36,763
- 3,224
Indeed... As do I. That was a non-sale in 2013... IceArizona essentially a Dummy Corporation. Custodians. Disinformation Officers.
Bad Actors at that. All a front. Long con being played, taking everybody for a ride only last night, they hit a brick wall.
takimaki
Registered User
Phoenix's mayor (and at least one council member) is already putting together something to bring the Coyotes to Downtown Phoenix where they should have been this whole time.
I expect a package to be floated soon to the Coyotes to stay in Arizona from the City of Phoenix, including some temporary subsidies to play in existing arena, and promises to build a new one. They have to move quickly before Vegas, QC, and Seattle make a move.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
My money's on Portland, Quebec City, or Phoenix.
Portland has known history of tentative interest in the NHL, and the last time the Yotes were on the relocation block, Portland was actually alleged to have been the destination in waiting in the event that Glendale hadn't passed the arena lease that they just voided. On top of that, the Allen group allegedly is only interested on a budget, and a cheaper relocation option might very well be the NHL's only chance to get into the Portland market as they apparently aren't interested in paying the NHL's rumored exorbitant expansion fees. Bettman & Co. assuredly don't want to pull a Houston and lose access to a market due to their only potential partner losing interest (and funds).
That being said, three-ish months to put everything together and sell thousands of season tickets seems like a very tall task for Portland to handle. Even assuming that they're able to keep a significant chunk of the Yotes organizational staff and fill the leftover from the Blazers staff, have zero coaching turnover, and are able to use resources from the Blazers to promote the team, start selling season tickets and sponsorships, and get the games on TV/radio, we're talking about a huge amount of work that needs to be done in a very small amount of time, especially regarding getting butts in seats. Having a much larger built in fanbase for hockey is the main leg up that a Canadian market like Quebec City has over any American market just due to the higher proportion of hockey fans north of the border (and especially in one that's an ex-NHL town) when it comes to an emergency situation where they need to do a wick relocation and hit the ground running.
While there's no doubt that Quebec City has to be the most NHL-ready destination right now, there's also the question of leaving money on the table. The NHL has to realize that Quebecor would be willing and able to pay an arm and a leg for a team, and going the relocation route would very likely be cheaper than buying an expansion team, as hard as that may be to believe. Why leave money on a relocation, one that could very well unbalance the conferences at some point, when an expansion as some point down the road will be huge? That could be the NHL's thought process, and they know they can take the market for granted as it'll never go away. They won't have to worry about Quebecor pulling an Alexander and losing interest. Quebec will always be there, and any expansion or relocation team will be welcomed like conquering heroes whether they come in a few weeks, a few years, or a few decades.
But, in terms of ease of movement, nothing would beat Phoenix. Just a short jaunt away, no players or organizational staff would need to move, and no change in ownership. Seems like it might be logical, but the thing is that they'd still be without the massive Glendale subsidy which helped their bottom line in a huge way. Would the Yotes in a more central location in that market make up for the huge amount of money lost from Glendale's city coffers? I doubt it. At most, maybe a lame duck season option if they figure they don't have time to move and/or sell this offseason.
So, I guess that's that, from my point of view. I'd bet on a permanent move to Portland or a lame duck year in Phoenix, at which point more options might be available.
As for other cities, they all have knocks, both good and bad.....
Vegas still needs another year for an arena.
Seattle will almost assuredly need to at least commit to an arena plan before the NHL's willing to jump in.
Houston and Kansas City lack owners.
Milwaukee and Hartford lack modern barns (and willing owners, at least for Milwaukee).
Hamilton's just never gotten real NHL interest.
Portland or lame duck in Phoenix is my (un)educated guess.
That being said, watch Quebecor pull a Ballmer and throw so much money their way that nobody could ignore them.
Portland has known history of tentative interest in the NHL, and the last time the Yotes were on the relocation block, Portland was actually alleged to have been the destination in waiting in the event that Glendale hadn't passed the arena lease that they just voided. On top of that, the Allen group allegedly is only interested on a budget, and a cheaper relocation option might very well be the NHL's only chance to get into the Portland market as they apparently aren't interested in paying the NHL's rumored exorbitant expansion fees. Bettman & Co. assuredly don't want to pull a Houston and lose access to a market due to their only potential partner losing interest (and funds).
That being said, three-ish months to put everything together and sell thousands of season tickets seems like a very tall task for Portland to handle. Even assuming that they're able to keep a significant chunk of the Yotes organizational staff and fill the leftover from the Blazers staff, have zero coaching turnover, and are able to use resources from the Blazers to promote the team, start selling season tickets and sponsorships, and get the games on TV/radio, we're talking about a huge amount of work that needs to be done in a very small amount of time, especially regarding getting butts in seats. Having a much larger built in fanbase for hockey is the main leg up that a Canadian market like Quebec City has over any American market just due to the higher proportion of hockey fans north of the border (and especially in one that's an ex-NHL town) when it comes to an emergency situation where they need to do a wick relocation and hit the ground running.
While there's no doubt that Quebec City has to be the most NHL-ready destination right now, there's also the question of leaving money on the table. The NHL has to realize that Quebecor would be willing and able to pay an arm and a leg for a team, and going the relocation route would very likely be cheaper than buying an expansion team, as hard as that may be to believe. Why leave money on a relocation, one that could very well unbalance the conferences at some point, when an expansion as some point down the road will be huge? That could be the NHL's thought process, and they know they can take the market for granted as it'll never go away. They won't have to worry about Quebecor pulling an Alexander and losing interest. Quebec will always be there, and any expansion or relocation team will be welcomed like conquering heroes whether they come in a few weeks, a few years, or a few decades.
But, in terms of ease of movement, nothing would beat Phoenix. Just a short jaunt away, no players or organizational staff would need to move, and no change in ownership. Seems like it might be logical, but the thing is that they'd still be without the massive Glendale subsidy which helped their bottom line in a huge way. Would the Yotes in a more central location in that market make up for the huge amount of money lost from Glendale's city coffers? I doubt it. At most, maybe a lame duck season option if they figure they don't have time to move and/or sell this offseason.
So, I guess that's that, from my point of view. I'd bet on a permanent move to Portland or a lame duck year in Phoenix, at which point more options might be available.
As for other cities, they all have knocks, both good and bad.....
Vegas still needs another year for an arena.
Seattle will almost assuredly need to at least commit to an arena plan before the NHL's willing to jump in.
Houston and Kansas City lack owners.
Milwaukee and Hartford lack modern barns (and willing owners, at least for Milwaukee).
Hamilton's just never gotten real NHL interest.
Portland or lame duck in Phoenix is my (un)educated guess.
That being said, watch Quebecor pull a Ballmer and throw so much money their way that nobody could ignore them.
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