NHL investigating Dallas Stars for CBA violation (upd: fined)

[Ace Card Bedard]

They wanted an extra practice to get ready to play...the Blackhawks?
That game was basically a practice session anyway.

Stupid Stars.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

so a player that wants to come in and work on their game isn;t allowed to?

 

[TGWL]

So on your day off you can't go to the team facility by your own choice and hang out, go for a skate, and get a meal cooked by team chef?

North Korea I guess.

Yes, those players broke in, got their gear, played some pick-up, hit the gym, and then ate a nice team cooked meal. Management screamed they had no idea and gave no such consent, but nobody believed them.

 

[Paper]

Guys it was a mandatory optional skate, what's not to understand?

 

[Armourboy]

so a player that wants to come in and work on their game isn;t allowed to?

Not during this break using team facilities. If they all wanted to meat up at a non-Stars facility and skate without the coaches being there they could do that, but whatever they do on those days it can not involve the franchise.

People gotta keep in mind the NHL has no real option but to hold teams feet to the fire on this, and it's not the first time they have. If they did nothing and let it slide it would mean the NHLPA would have grounds to go after the NHL for breach of contract. The people within the NHL probably don't really care one way or the other, but the lawyers they pay to care certainly do, so they gotta do what they gotta do.

It looks even worse when the coach opens his mouth and basically says its an optional skate that isn't that optional for certain players.

 

[LT]

I'm not really sure why there's any arguing here.

The Stars violated the CBA. That's cut-and-dry, black-and-white. I'm gonna trust that the team and the NHL know the details better than anyone here, and both sides seem to agree there was a violation.

It's a relatively minor event anyway you spin it. And the punishment is relatively minor (just a team fine) as a result. I'm honestly more surprised DeBoer said anything about it to begin with, even accidentally.

This won't matter until DeBoer is let go eventually, where it'll be brought up again as something that contributed to his ousting. And after that, it'll be a small footnote or piece of trivia.

 

[cowboy82nd]

I thought you’re allowed to skate, it just can’t be team sanctioned?

Is it the fact that it being said to be an “optional skate” that it’s somehow team sanctioned?

I thought guys had “captain’s skates” on the 26th all the time. It just couldn’t be with the coaches and staff and you didn’t have to participate.

If I'm not mistaken, the players can NOT use the teams facility during this time period. Whether there were coaches there or not, does not make a difference.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So on your day off you can't go to the team facility by your own choice and hang out, go for a skate, and get a meal cooked by team chef?

North Korea I guess.

Yes yes, that's exactly like North Korea.

The rule is there to protect players vacations and keep them from being pressured into "optional" practices by coaches and management during their time off. The simple way to avoid this is to follow the rule.

 

[cowboy82nd]

NHL added in some new rule in the memo which says you can't provide ice now. Says nothing about that in the CBA. NHL is trying to dictate the lives of players who want to skate on their day off.

Really? This is what you are going for? For one, the NHL DOES dictate the lives of players, they are called contracts. And two, if a player wanted to skate on his day off, go to a public facility.

 

[Bleedred]

Can't involve the team at all... including facilities

If I'm not mistaken, the players can NOT use the teams facility during this time period. Whether there were coaches there or not, does not make a difference.

Ah, this must be something as of the latest CBA, as I remember just several years ago players could show up and use the rink at the practice facility during the break if they just wanted to have a conditioning skate or something, so they’re not going three whole days off the ice.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Yes yes, that's exactly like North Korea.

The rule is there to protect players vacations and keep them from being pressured into "optional" practices by coaches and management during their time off. The simple way to avoid this is to follow the rule.

I refuse to believe any Stars players were "pressured" into doing anything during the break.

so a player that wants to come in and work on their game isn;t allowed to?

They can, any player can, really, but the team just gets a tiny lil' slap on the wrist as a result, for daring to violate the CBA.

 

[Armourboy]

Ah, this must be something as of the latest CBA, as I remember just several years ago players could show up and use the rink at the practice facility during the break if they just wanted to have a conditioning skate or something, so they’re not going three whole days off the ice.

I think likely its just a different interpretation of the wording than what has gone on in prior years, and for all we know had the coach not shown up and not opened his mouth then absolutely nothing would have happened.

I mean for all we know the NHLPA had a meeting with the NHL about the skating that has gone on in prior years and had some dissatisfaction with it. The lawyers thought the wording was broad enough not to actually amend the wording in the contract so for anyone looking it doesn't appear that anything changed.

The memo sent out though was pretty clear, so teams can't even really argue fuzzy rule changes or anything.

 

[LOFIN]

Ah, this must be something as of the latest CBA, as I remember just several years ago players could show up and use the rink at the practice facility during the break if they just wanted to have a conditioning skate or something, so they’re not going three whole days off the ice.

On 32 thoughts, Friedman said that the fact that Dallas had coaches on the ice is really the point of unacceptable. A number of people he spoke to, said that the league and the PA could in theory allow players to use team facilities to organize a skate on their own. It would be gray area, but could in theory be passable. The fact that Dallas had coaches there was a big no-no.

 

[Paper]

I refuse to believe any Stars players were "pressured" into doing anything during the break.

"We had an optional, and of course, the young guys all show up for the optional like, you know, they're supposed to do."

Ah yes, just being told by the coach that you're supposed to show up. How could anyone see that as being pressured?

 

[Dr Pepper]

"We had an optional, and of course, the young guys all show up for the optional like, you know, they're supposed to do."

Ah yes, just being told by the coach that you're supposed to show up. How could anyone see that as being pressured?

Except that's not really what he meant, now, is it?

Unless Dallas's young players actually step up and say PDB specifically instructed them to show up to the optional skate because "they're supposed to", I think this was just taken out of context and it was just meant more of a point about young guns trying to impress or work on their game.

That's what other coaches seem to think, anyway:

After the Wild topped the Stars 3-2 in overtime Friday, Minnesota head coach John Hynes said DeBoer could have misspoke.
“Obviously, the rules are in place for a reason. The league is so competitive and so tight in terms of the schedule, you’d like everyone on an even playing field. The rules are the rules, right?" Hynes said. "But, again, I don’t know exactly what he meant. I’ve got a lot of respect for Pete, so I would lend myself to think that maybe he made a mistake.”

Again, zero implication at all that any Stars players, young or old, were told they had to show up or were supposed to attend this optional skate during the break .

 

[Nikki Potnick]

Man, first Kyle Beach, now this...

This is nothing. Pay the fine, move on.

 

[Satan]

191 posts and counting about practice?

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Still no fine, doesn't seem so black and white for the NHL to take this long.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Name any institution, anywhere, that isn’t corrupt.

Volunteer Services Organization (VSO) is pretty good.

Their caveat is they're Apolitical and non-religious.....


......Which unfortunately means they're criminally underfunded.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I think this was just taken out of context and it was just meant more of a point about young guns trying to impress or work on their game.

Yeah, and I think someone arguing everyone involved is lying that is was actually mandatory, as in PDB told people they had to show up, is wrong.

I think that's what PDB meant. It's also the exact reason why the CBA prohibits teams from even asking players to come in on their time off. Because the coach saying 'this is optional' isn't really 'optional', it's 'this is optional, but it sure says a lot about you if you do show up.' Which means the opposite is also true- it says a lot about you if you don't show up.

Even in just asking for this 'optional' practice, PDB is putting a ton of pressure on these guys to show up and impress/not piss off the coach. I'm frankly shocked PDB actually came out and said this, this isn't the Leafs leaving a day early to avoid inclement weather and eating the fine, this is someone admitting to doing the very reason why the players bargained for this exact rule in the first place.

It wouldn't surprise me if PDB got personally fined for this too.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Yes, if the team offers ice it's a conflict of interest even if they tell players "Hey, this is optional and we don't expect you there."

Fringe players are going to assume that the team's going to be aware, and that it will cloud their decisions. "Hey, that Johnson kid's always working - he showed up to that optional skate over the holidays even". And even if they say that they aren't, this would be in the minds of staffers. Behavioral Economics 101.

It's a moot point anyhow, since this rule has been collectively bargained by the league and the players' association. It doesn't matter what we think - the teams agreed to it, and the players agreed to it.

 

[Unspecified]

"Optional"

 

[JPT]

This thread is good for one thing, and that thing is figuring out who is a manager or a company kiss-ass

 

[KeyserSoze81]

What a dumb shit rule, no one with a brain was working that day.

So typical operations in the NHL league office? I largely assume it's just Bill Daly and a CTE'd Parros playing cornhole with stacks of expansion money, while in the background Colin Campbell interviews his new crop of referees from the AHL reject bin and the Helen Keller Institute.

 

[dirtydanglez]

greasy