Post-Game Talk: NHL Expansion Draft and Awards Show - Bruins lose Colin Miller - Bergeron Wins Selke

[BiggioRainesHOF]

This is the least physical team I have ever seen in Boston, at least keeping McQuaid gives them a bit of a physical presence. Carlo is not physical, Belesky is not overly physical and Chara doesn't hit anywhere near as much as he used to.

It could be. The issue is that every iteration you see of the NHL is going to be the least physical NHL you've ever seen going forward. You can thank brain injury science and modern advances in strength training.

Relative to the league, I don't agree at all that this team isn't physical. I think you're seeing what you (in this case don't) want to see.

 

[BruinDust]

Who is saying Colin is a future star?

The issue I think most have with not protecting him is that you end up with two RH, injury prone, defensive, 30+ D (who make $2.5m +) who are virtually identical players projected to be the 3rd pair.

Is that really an issue when your top 2 RD in Carlo and McAvoy are making less than 2 million combined?

What role does Colin Miller have in Boston if McAvoy is ready to play (and looks like he is)?

 

[BiggioRainesHOF]

Is that really an issue when your top 2 RD in Carlo and McAvoy are making less than 2 million combined?

I'd rather take that opportunity and use it to find a legitimate top 9 forward and a LHD that may be able to slot into Chara's spot next year.

 

[BruinDust]

It could be. The issue is that every iteration you see of the NHL is going to be the least physical NHL you've ever seen going forward. You can thank brain injury science and modern advances in strength training.

Relative to the league, I don't agree at all that this team isn't physical. I think you're seeing what you (in this case don't) want to see.

He also said Carlo isn't physical. Which is 100% false.

He is physical. He isn't mean. There is a difference.

 

[BruinDust]

I'd rather take that opportunity and use it to find a legitimate top 9 forward and a LHD that may be able to slot into Chara's spot next year.

Fair enough, but were not talking huge amounts of cash here.

Remove the 5.25 paid to Kevan and McQuaid, replace it with two guys on ELCs, and your talking about a savings of 3.5 million.

That gets you a mid-range forward. Not a top end scorer, nor a D-man capable of replacing what Chara brought last year.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Is that really an issue when your top 2 RD in Carlo and McAvoy are making less than 2 million combined?

What role does Colin Miller have in Boston if McAvoy is ready to play (and looks like he is)?

It's always as an issue, particularly when that money could be better spent elsewhere (Top 6 wing for DK).

 

[yazmybaby]

We don't need C Miller, glad to see him go. We have 3 RHD now, let's get a decent LHD ( sign T Dayley, trade for Methot or Schmidt) we have the assets to get this done.

 

[BiggioRainesHOF]

Fair enough, but were not talking huge amounts of cash here.

Remove the 5.25 paid to Kevan and McQuaid, replace it with two guys on ELCs, and your talking about a savings of 3.5 million.

That gets you a mid-range forward. Not a top end scorer, nor a D-man capable of replacing what Chara brought last year.

In a vacuum sure, but if the difference in moving one of them is getting a couple higher paid guys under the cap vs. being over it, that would be the place I'd look to move my $ from.

Mostly because I don't think Beleskey is movable (hope to be proven wrong) and I don't think buying out Hayes is a great option since that carries over into next year.

 

[Fenian24]

He also said Carlo isn't physical. Which is 100% false.

He is physical. He isn't mean. There is a difference.

Fair enough. I never considered pushing a player to the corner and leaning on them as being physical. Hoping he develops a mean streak but few do, you either have it or you don't (see Lil Jimmy Hayes)

 

[BruinDust]

It's always as an issue, particularly when that money could be better spent elsewhere (Top 6 wing for DK).

You want to talk money wasted, start with Belesky or Hayes, not the cash given to McQuaid or Kevan for what they brought last year.

Sure, having 4 RD all on ELC-level deals would be nice and all that, but how realistic is it.

Does the 3.5 million in savings of McQuaid/Kevan vs. 2 ELC D get you this vaunted Top 6 winger everyone here cries about?

Say they kept Colin and lost one of Kevan or McQuaid. What's your savings? 1.5 or 1.75 million. That doesn't get you much GD.

 

[BruinDust]

In a vacuum sure, but if the difference in moving one of them is getting a couple higher paid guys under the cap vs. being over it, that would be the place I'd look to move my $ from.

Mostly because I don't think Beleskey is movable (hope to be proven wrong) and I don't think buying out Hayes is a great option since that carries over into next year.

I agree Belesky isn't movable, Hayes will be buried in the AHL and will save 900k off his cap hit.

Don't get me wrong, it's like fitting the pieces of a puzzle together, ideally the more sub-1 million guys you have who can play, the better. But is there a team out there that has the perfect combination of sub-1 million and north of 1 million salaried players? I don't see one.

 

[TheBigBadB]

Psssst.

McAvoy sort of made Colin Miller redundant as well.

Just my gut feeling, but I think Boston was all set to protect Colin Miller.

Then McAvoy due to injuries got signed early and showed in the playoffs he's the better player now, with a higher upside.

Honest question.

Assume your Top 4 is a combination of Chara/Carlo/Krug/McAvoy.

And Boston wants to run two 4F/1D PP units, one with Krug and another with McAvoy.

Who do you want as a A) a PK option and B) manning the right side partnered with one of Morrow/Gryz/O'Gara/Lauzon/Johansson/Zboril on the left.

Colin Miller or one of Adam McQuaid/Kevan Miller?

Cause I'll take McQuaid/Kevan for that role every day and twice on Sundays.

I really like McAvoy as well, but let's be honest it was 6 games. Bartowski and Krug came in during the playoffs and shocked as well. So I have tempered excitement about him. I like having guys that have more potential around then an already know ceilinged out slow footed stay at home defensemen.

The league is changing to speed yet we are rocking Mcquaid,Chara, and Kevin Miller on defense. Even Carlo is not that quick though definitely ahead of the 3 ahead.

Donnie can talk all he wants about pushing the pace and speed, but he needs to let go a few of these guys to accomplish that. He talks about it but re-upped both Mcquaid and Miller. As well as sign Beleskey and Backes. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Number8]

That's the route I would of chosen. Retain both Colin and McQuaid. Keep your defensive depth intact.

Only issue there is if other teams have interest in the player (such as the Leafs in Colin), you pretty much have to equal the asset the Leafs in this case would be offering.

That being said, I don't suspect that asset is of any massive value. Probably a 3rd or 4th, something in that range.

Exactly. The permutations are almost endless.

GMGM/Don Sweeney -- OK Donny, I think a third rounder looks good for us to take Beleskey and stay away from your other guys. Let me do a little more work and get back to you.

GMGM/Lou Lamorello -- Hi Lou, how goes it in Leaf land? OK, so you'd like us to grab Colin Miller. What are you willing to give me for him? A second? That sounds great. Let me do a little more work and get back to you.

GMGM/Don Sweeney -- Hey Donny. Things have changed a bit. It's going to cost a 2nd rounder + for me to take Beleskey. Sorry about that. Pretty fluid situation going on here. Can you let me know ASAP -- I have a pretty good deal on table that I'm not going to let get away. Thanks Donny."

None of that is trying to assign values -- just illustrating how many different conversations and possibilities there were out there. None of this is as simple as some fans make it out to be.

 

[TheBigBadB]

Yes as opposed to future all star Colin Miller. I like Colin but this hyperbole regarding him is bordering on Khokolachev/Knight levels.

Isn't Miller a redundancy to Krug? A little bigger than Krug, not as good defensively, bigger but not as good overall and may never be.

Sweeney made the right decision protecting Kevan and got lucky that Vegas didn't take McQuaid.

Colin could crash and burn who knows, but he needed to be given more time than two years. You don't know what his ceiling is and he definitely has nice tools. As opposed to Kevan Miller that was given 5 years to ceiling out as an ok bottom defenseman.

 

[DKH]

He also said Carlo isn't physical. Which is 100% false.

He is physical. He isn't mean. There is a difference.

I sit second row directly behind net and Carlo is definitely not afraid to move people out or play physical

He's only going to get better

He'd have been perfect pick at 33 for Chiarelli

 

[EverettMike]

Get that whooping 3.3 % off the books for a 20 minute analytics monster

Do you mean monster in the bad way?

Cause the analytics say that all of us vastly overrated Adam McQuaid.

I was surprised when I looked at them recently, but his advanced stats suck and have always sucked. So do Kevan Miller's.

 

[BruinDust]

I really like McAvoy as well, but let's be honest it was 6 games. Bartowski and Krug came in during the playoffs and shocked as well. So I have tempered excitement about him. I like having guys that have more potential around then an already know ceilinged out slow footed stay at home defensemen.

The league is changing to speed yet we are rocking Mcquaid,Chara, and Kevin Miller on defense. Even Carlo is not that quick though definitely ahead of the 3 ahead.

Donnie can talk all he wants about pushing the pace and speed, but he needs to let go a few of these guys to accomplish that. He talks about it but re-upped both Mcquaid and Miller. As well as sign Beleskey and Backes. Doesn't make sense.

Fair enough, nothing wrong with tempered expectations, but the Krug and Bart comparisons are pretty off base.

Yup the league is getting faster, no doubt about that.

And guess what, McQuaid's skating has improved. Kevan has taken his skating to another level. Both clearly put the work in. Doesn't make them speedsters, but they can both keep up in this league, faster league or not.

Just because a league has gotten faster doesn't dictate every move you make.

Look the Bruins had to expose players like every team. If they weren't going to cut a deal with Vegas to lay off certain guys, they were losing a decent D-man.

We'll never know if they hoped that Vegas claimed McQuaid over Colin.

We do know they wanted Kevan Miller more than either of them.

 

[Gee Wally]

Off-Season Watch: Quick flips by Vegas?
http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-watch-quick-flips-by-vegas-1.785980

 

[LouJersey]

You want to talk money wasted, start with Belesky or Hayes, not the cash given to McQuaid or Kevan for what they brought last year.

Sure, having 4 RD all on ELC-level deals would be nice and all that, but how realistic is it.

Does the 3.5 million in savings of McQuaid/Kevan vs. 2 ELC D get you this vaunted Top 6 winger everyone here cries about?

Say they kept Colin and lost one of Kevan or McQuaid. What's your savings? 1.5 or 1.75 million. That doesn't get you much GD.

How do you feel about a Killer-McQ third pairing this year?

 

[bb_fan]

I agree that Chiller not a Top 4 (and I'm a fan of his).

However, neither Krug, nor Carlo Top 4? Please explain this to me. I have only had two coffees and must be missing something?

Carlo I explained. I just think he needs a bit more time to develop into that. Maybe last season was enough for him to do it this year, I just think it wore on him as the season went on last year. To many minutes, to many situations he wasn't ready for.

Krug just isn't that great of a defender.

offensively he's great, defensively not so much.

he can play in the top four, just not someone I would want to see in there consistently.

just like Mcquaid can slot into the top 4, but not something you'd want to see consistently. although I would obviously take Krug in that role full time over Mcquaid with out hesitation.

 

[bb_fan]

He also said Carlo isn't physical. Which is 100% false.

He is physical. He isn't mean. There is a difference.

and there's a difference with being physical, and playing physical.

 

[Number8]

Off-Season Watch: Quick flips by Vegas?
http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-watch-quick-flips-by-vegas-1.785980

I'm gonna have to ask Fenway why you can't watch a TSN video in US.

Of course they are happy to have you sit through commercial before they give you "sorry video ineligible for play in your area...."

Any major tips on what they saying?

 

[BruinDust]

How do you feel about a Killer-McQ third pairing this year?

Not my preferred option, mostly because I'm strongly against guys playing the off-side with exceptions (see Seidenberg).

Other than that, it's not ideal but not the end of the world either. Difference for me in a Kevan-McQuaid pairing vs. a Kevan-Colin or Colin-McQuaid is minimal at best. At least Kevan and/or McQuaid would have a role on special teams. I don't see one with Colin if McAvoy is in the picture.

Ideally they solve the LD spot with a left-shot D, either internally with one of O'Gara/Gryz/Morrow/Zboril/Lauzon/Johansson, or externally, and one of Kevan or McQuaid is in the pressbox as quality depth. Somewhat expensive depth, but it's not like they would have a 4-5-6 million dollar D-man sitting upstairs either.

 

[BruinDust]

and there's a difference with being physical, and playing physical.

Huh?

 

[TheBigBadB]

Fair enough, nothing wrong with tempered expectations, but the Krug and Bart comparisons are pretty off base.

Yup the league is getting faster, no doubt about that.

And guess what, McQuaid's skating has improved. Kevan has taken his skating to another level. Both clearly put the work in. Doesn't make them speedsters, but they can both keep up in this league, faster league or not.

Just because a league has gotten faster doesn't dictate every move you make.

Look the Bruins had to expose players like every team. If they weren't going to cut a deal with Vegas to lay off certain guys, they were losing a decent D-man.

We'll never know if they hoped that Vegas claimed McQuaid over Colin.

We do know they wanted Kevan Miller more than either of them.

The only person that wanted Kevan more than the other two is the Sweeney for protecting Kevan. We have no idea what LV would have done if they were both exposed.

Kevan has improved his foot speed no doubt, it only took 5yrs to improve which is three more than what they gave Colin Miller.

The problem is some prospects take time to develop, it's the Bruins are notorious for giving up early on talented players and give more lienency to big tough players with limited skill.

Fact still remains that LV took Miller over top 4 Mcquaid, so for all the "improving" that Mcquaid has done he was passed over. Why?