NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[dj4aces]

Nobody cares about a counter example from a time when folks were basically still dying of the Spanish Flu.

Those who live in the past never learn to advance into the future.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Those who live in the past never learn to advance into the future.

How can this relate to getting the NHL on The CW, though?

 

[KevFu]

Plus, it’s all a moot point. It’s readily apparently that the NHL, both north and south of the border, isn’t interested in a permanent Canadian division.

I'm of the believe that making an alignment and schedule based off the map is really dumb because no one roots for maps. They root for teams and teams have rivals.

I'm also of the belief that creating divisions with predominantly "new" brands (relative to the ones who were in the NHL93 video games) is extremely bad for business...

Also, back in 2023 the final four playoff teams all ended up being from the Sun Belt, which served to impair the ratings of the Cup Final.

It's important to note that the reason for a TV ratings impairment isn't based on SOUTHERN, but based on the fact that the NEWEST TEAMS have less generations of people growing up rooting for a team.

There's no father in Las Vegas saying "My dad took me to Golden Knights games when I was your age and now I'm taking you."

And because generally the newer markets tend to be smaller than older markets, simply because you start in the biggest markets when forming a league, there's less people to hop on the bandwagon in the newer markets. I believe Vegas and Carolina are the 24th and 27th largest NHL markets?

It's also true in road attendance. The newer brands are just less of a draw, period. Regardless of North/South. We just have more Sun Belt teams than new northern brands like the Senators, Kraken and Wild.

 

[ponder719]

It's also true in road attendance. The newer brands are just less of a draw, period. Regardless of North/South. We just have more Sun Belt teams than new northern brands like the Senators, Kraken and Wild.

Say what you will about Sun Belt teams, the Kings are more of a draw than the Blue Jackets. Why? The Kings are older, more established, they have the cachet of being from LA, they've been successful at the highest level. The Blue Jackets have a cannon. (No hate to Columbus, but being real, they're better known for the cannon than anything else.)

 

[KevFu]

Say what you will about Sun Belt teams, the Kings are more of a draw than the Blue Jackets. Why? The Kings are older, more established, they have the cachet of being from LA, they've been successful at the highest level. The Blue Jackets have a cannon. (No hate to Columbus, but being real, they're better known for the cannon than anything else.)

Right. If you chart out the NHL teams on a 3x3 grid of "Old-Mid--New" and market size "Huge-Mid-Small" that's going to explain TV ratings better than the weather.

 

[Headshot77]

Say what you will about Sun Belt teams, the Kings are more of a draw than the Blue Jackets. Why? The Kings are older, more established, they have the cachet of being from LA, they've been successful at the highest level. The Blue Jackets have a cannon. (No hate to Columbus, but being real, they're better known for the cannon than anything else.)

I'd love if Columbus goes with their third jerseys as their primaries and rename themselves the "Columbus Cannons"

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The Blue Jackets have basically had one draft pick, two or three trades, one free agency signing, and one (two if you count a covid qualifying round) playoff series win to cheer over in the span of a quarter century. That's about it.

That's honestly a track record that'd be used as an excuse to explain away why a team floundered and relocated, and why we shouldn't hold that against them in future expansion conversations. You just can't realistically hold fans not being excited over that as a team's legacy against them. They're pretty inarguably the least successful team this century.

And yet Columbus still draws reasonably well in spite of all of that.

Real talk, give them an actually meaningfully competitive team with a window of at least a few years, and they're going to explode.

That all being said, I honestly think the Blue Jackets are in a dire need of a rebrand. Maybe a name change is too far, but they need to reinvent the wheel uniform-wise.

 

[aqib]

The Blue Jackets have basically had one draft pick, two or three trades, one free agency signing, and one (two if you count a covid qualifying round) playoff series win to cheer over in the span of a quarter century. That's about it.

That's honestly a track record that'd be used as an excuse to explain away why a team floundered and relocated, and why we shouldn't hold that against them in future expansion conversations. You just can't realistically hold fans not being excited over that as a team's legacy against them. They're pretty inarguably the least successful team this century.

And yet Columbus still draws reasonably well in spite of all of that.

Real talk, give them an actually meaningfully competitive team with a window of at least a few years, and they're going to explode.

That all being said, I honestly think the Blue Jackets are in a dire need of a rebrand. Maybe a name change is too far, but they need to reinvent the wheel uniform-wise.

Its possibly the dumbest name since "Devil Rays." Doug McLean said "there are 10K insects and we had to invent one"

 

[aqib]

So Houston has the 1055th idea to renovate the Astrodome. The new plan basically has a bunch of buildings inside in it. The idea includes having the rodeo venue inside but the rodeo doesn't want to go there. So hear me out. NHL arena inside the building...

 

[KevFu]

So Houston has the 1055th idea to renovate the Astrodome. The new plan basically has a bunch of buildings inside in it. The idea includes having the rodeo venue inside but the rodeo doesn't want to go there. So hear me out. NHL arena inside the building...

I'm pretty sure (I can't remember the right name, something like) the Harris County Sports Commission/Authority) has to approve that; and per the terms of their lease with the Rockets owner, they can't.

 

[aqib]

I'm pretty sure (I can't remember the right name, something like) the Harris County Sports Commission/Authority) has to approve that; and per the terms of their lease with the Rockets owner, they can't.

They can't provide funding for another arena but if that part of the renovation is private the can.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

They can't provide funding for another arena but if that part of the renovation is private the can.

Are you talking about an NHL team in Houston? Atlanta,Quebec city,Houston and San Diego...Portland,Milwaukee,KC! Gets to 40 right there and then add a team in Hamilton or TO,Phoenix,Indianapolis and Hartford just for old times sake and that screaming good/great Logo...That one and Les Canadiens with the sharp C with H and great great colours Blu, blanc a rouge

 

[edog37]

For those who continue to criticize my proposal, again I must remind you that the NHL started as an all-Canadian league, during a time the Stanley Cup was contested by multiple leagues, so until 1924 the Cup Final was guaranteed to have at least one Canadian team. My proposal brings that back in a way.

So you want to create a pity spot for Canadian teams because they can’t figure out how to properly build a team. Got it.

 

[RBH]

NHL expansion may not have been on the agenda at this week’s Board of Governors meeting, but the topic loomed large in conversations.

“There’s nothing going on at the present time other than there continue to be expressions of interest,” NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said.

Insiders Darren Dreger and Pierre LeBrun weighed in on the speculation on both TSN's "Early Trading" and a piece published over at The Athletic, noting growing interest from markets like Atlanta, Houston and Phoenix, alongside smaller markets like Cincinnati and Nebraska.

A representative from one of two Atlanta-area groups attended the meetings, according to The Athletic's report, signaling the city’s desire to rejoin the NHL.

Despite the commissioner's tempered response, Dreger highlighted that expansion remains a hot topic among team owners.

“You can’t escape a Board of Governors meeting without talking about expansion,” Dreger said. “Some owners feel further expansion is inevitable. The timeline is the mystery — are we talking two teams? When does it happen?”

https://athlonsports.com/nhl/owners-expect-inevitable-nhl-expansion-under-mystery-timeline-report

"The NHL hasn't signaled when, or even if, it will look at expanding beyond 32 teams, but it seems to have a growing list of suitors looking to gain entrance to the club. Beyond Atlanta, you have major markets in Houston and Phoenix currently without a team, and Bettman has said previously that smaller places like Cincinnati and Nebraska have shown interest."

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5984581/2024/12/10/nhl-board-of-governors-rumblings/

 

[aqib]

Just curious. Under the current CBA players don't get a cut of expansion fees. Why wouldn't the league want to get at least one team added before the CBA expires so the union can't ask for a cut of the fees.

 

[Tawnos]

Just curious. Under the current CBA players don't get a cut of expansion fees. Why wouldn't the league want to get at least one team added before the CBA expires so the union can't ask for a cut of the fees.

The NHL might be confident that they won't end up giving them a cut in the next CBA either. The argument is still the same, the players benefit from expansion by adding more jobs.

 

[dj4aces]

Just curious. Under the current CBA players don't get a cut of expansion fees. Why wouldn't the league want to get at least one team added before the CBA expires so the union can't ask for a cut of the fees.

I suppose the players could ask for a cut, but also, more teams potentially means more revenue, which means a higher salary cap... so not only would players benefit by having more jobs, they could also get paid more as well. Two teams in two major metro areas, run correctly, should have zero issue drawing well and making money.

 

[Tawnos]

I suppose the players could ask for a cut, but also, more teams potentially means more revenue, which means a higher salary cap... so not only would players benefit by having more jobs, they could also get paid more as well. Two teams in two major metro areas, run correctly, should have zero issue drawing well and making money.

I don't think any of the markets we've discussed would necessarily raise the salary cap. They'll probably be more like Vegas and Seattle, which are around the middle in revenue generated (15th and 23rd last year). Teams in the middle push the cap up or down.

 

[dj4aces]

I don't think any of the markets we've discussed would necessarily raise the salary cap. They'll probably be more like Vegas and Seattle, which are around the middle in revenue generated (15th and 23rd last year). Teams in the middle push the cap up or down.

It's the business side of the argument the league would make, should it even be something the PA asks for.

 

[Tawnos]

It's the business side of the argument the league would make, should it even be something the PA asks for.

Not so much. If they're going to make a salary cap/revenue increase argument, it's not going to be about the revenue those individual teams bring in. Or if they do, they'll look foolish. The PA isn't going to believe it, nor should they. The only thing they can really say to point to a salary cap increase is how expansion could affect the next TV contract.

Just to add context to my point in my simple math... if your salary midpoint is $80m and you expand with a team that generates $160m... the expansion team has $0 of impact on the salary cap. Because while you added $80m to the player's share (50% of $160m) you're also dividing the leaguewide number by 33 to find the midpoint instead of 32. I know this is something you understand, but I wanted to add it to inform the discussion overall.

Now, the jobs it would create are a different story. That's the real business side argument.

 

[edog37]

Just curious. Under the current CBA players don't get a cut of expansion fees. Why wouldn't the league want to get at least one team added before the CBA expires so the union can't ask for a cut of the fees.

The owners won’t give the players anything related to expansion fees & they shouldn’t in any event. The owners are the ones taking the risk. For the players, they just have another place to play & more jobs. The CBA expiring is irrelevant.