NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[Takuto Maruki]

It's also humorous to me you mention the "last two Cups" since Colorado was a team that joined the NHL in the 1990s amid the "Southern expansion" and while not in the Sun Belt, would be one of the southern-most franchises if not for the Sun Belt expansion. Ditto STL and WAS, who won Cups before Tampa won back-to-back. So basically 9 of the last 13 are from "Not North"

It is funny how, for these arguments, Washington especially is considered 'the north' when, by most regards of geographical location and especially culturally, it is much closer to the south then anything else. But hey, they've been in the league for 50+ years and successful for 30 of those years...besides, those same people wouldn't have whined about putting a hockey team in the US capital in 1974, would they?

 

[Tawnos]

I frame it more in terms of like "For each franchise to be average in revenue in each league, what's the cost per fan in the market?" What's the real-world application of that percentage gap you just displayed?

The real world application for $ per person in the market is that you can compare apples to apples across all the markets in the US and see just what to expect for financial health

For example, you sort the list of $ per person among the baseball teams. Well four playoff teams are from the top four markets: SD, NY, LA. How is San Diego paying Tatis, Machado and Bogarts and had Snell and Soto, and Darvish and carrying a payroll that big when they're "small market" ? Well, they only need $78 per person to be league average in revenue. New York teams need $88. Cincinnati, who's kinda sucked forever, needs $263 per person.



The one caveat I'd make to your comment about "a Houston team would have very little penetration" position would be "where's their AHL team?" because that's something that would help.

It would help, but not as much as you think... speaking as someone who lives in a market that once had the AHL affiliate of the NHL team 2.5-3 hours away.

 

[sneakytitz]

That was my point. Viewership increased due to NHL hockey in the state but number of pro caliber players coming out of Georgia is still zero.

Give it time - the junior/amateur leagues run deep here and have grown to be the largest in the country. They're getting even bigger.

Aside from organic growth, you need a generation of existence for a professional team to produce embedded fans. In other words, kids have to grow up rooting for and aspiring to be, or at least trying to be, their idols on local TV. Good examples of this are Gavin Brindley, Ryan Carpenter, Ryan Hartman, and Michael Kesselring. Joe Snively is probably the best example because he grew up rooting for the team that eventually drafted him.

It's worth noting that there are A LOT of players in the FPHL/SPHL/ECHL that are from Georgia, Florida, North and South Carolina, and Tennessee. Give it 5-10 more years (time) and I bet you start seeing more and more NHL players that are either from the south or grew up in the south. Kids down here don't have the amenities and coaching that they do in Canada but they're making progress, they just need a bit more time to start closing that gap a bit more.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Right. The overall point is that no one really CARES about the "cultural relevance" (whatever that means) compared to MONEY. The fact is that the league is generating $200m plus in revenue from places they were getting $0 before.

It's also humorous to me you mention the "last two Cups" since Colorado was a team that joined the NHL in the 1990s amid the "Southern expansion" and while not in the Sun Belt, would be one of the southern-most franchises if not for the Sun Belt expansion. Ditto STL and WAS, who won Cups before Tampa won back-to-back. So basically 9 of the last 13 are from "Not North"

And Toronto is not north if you only count Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg. So "if not for" only counts for so much.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

It is funny how, for these arguments, Washington especially is considered 'the north' when, by most regards of geographical location and especially culturally, it is much closer to the south then anything else. But hey, they've been in the league for 50+ years and successful for 30 of those years...besides, those same people wouldn't have whined about putting a hockey team in the US capital in 1974, would they?

By geographical location they are well above about half of the US. But hey let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.

 

[dj4aces]

Give it time - the junior/amateur leagues run deep here and have grown to be the largest in the country. They're getting even bigger.

Aside from organic growth, you need a generation of existence for a professional team to produce embedded fans. In other words, kids have to grow up rooting for and aspiring to be, or at least trying to be, their idols on local TV. Good examples of this are Gavin Brindley, Ryan Carpenter, Ryan Hartman, and Michael Kesselring. Joe Snively is probably the best example because he grew up rooting for the team that eventually drafted him.

It's worth noting that there are A LOT of players in the FPHL/SPHL/ECHL that are from Georgia, Florida, North and South Carolina, and Tennessee. Give it 5-10 more years (time) and I bet you start seeing more and more NHL players that are either from the south or grew up in the south. Kids down here don't have the amenities and coaching that they do in Canada but they're making progress, they just need a bit more time to start closing that gap a bit more.

Additionally, there's been a few players that have been drafted by NHL teams in recent years who are alumni of local youth programs. Chase Pearson, drafted in 2015 by the Wings, comes immediately to mind. He didn't pan out with the Wings though, and is currently playing in Europe, but he had a couple sips of coffee at the NHL level.

 

[sneakytitz]

Chase Pearson

Chase is a great example but I omitted him along with others like Brandon Duhaime and Logan Brown. These are guys that grew up in homes with professional players that found themselves in the south by way of the teams they played for.