NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[GKJ]

Its not Bama or even BYU but its still something that draws some attention and dollars.

If you put an NBA team in Pittsburgh, I would bet that it would do fine. But one of my things I say about expansion is whether or not it expands the footprint. Not as much as other markets would.

 

[KevFu]

If you put an NBA team in Pittsburgh, I would bet that it would do fine. But one of my things I say about expansion is whether or not it expands the footprint. Not as much as other markets would.

Yeah, I think a major pro team anywhere in the top 75 markets would be "Fine" in terms of not going bankrupt. It's only a case of "are they making enough money relative to everyone else?"


Also, if you're Quebec and the NHL adds teams in Atlanta, Houston and Phoenix, you have to be NOT PISSED, but really happy that the NHL is 9-9-9-8 and has a HOLE in the east and not many major markets to possibly go to to fill that spot.

If you're the Quebec would-be owner, you start making calls to WAS, TB, FLA, ATL, CAR, CBJ, DET, CHI, NASH, BOS, NYR, NYI, NJD, TOR, BUF, DAL, HOU and point out that they'd prefer Quebec over an expansion team in

1C. Greater Toronto
20. Baltimore
21. Orlando
22. Charlotte
24. San Antonio
26. Austin
30. Cincinnati
33. Cleveland
34. Indianapolis - NBA arena seats 11,651 for hockey
37. Virginia Beach
38. Jacksonville
39. Providence
40. Milwaukee
43. Louisville
44. Richmond
45. Memphis
49. Grand Rapids
51. Hartford
53. Rochester
9C. Hamilton

Adding Atlanta and Houston moves Quebec closer, not further away.

 

[GKJ]

Yeah, I think a major pro team anywhere in the top 75 markets would be "Fine" in terms of not going bankrupt. It's only a case of "are they making enough money relative to everyone else?"


Also, if you're Quebec and the NHL adds teams in Atlanta, Houston and Phoenix, you have to be NOT PISSED, but really happy that the NHL is 9-9-9-8 and has a HOLE in the east and not many major markets to possibly go to to fill that spot.

If you're the Quebec would-be owner, you start making calls to WAS, TB, FLA, ATL, CAR, CBJ, DET, CHI, NASH, BOS, NYR, NYI, NJD, TOR, BUF, DAL, HOU and point out that they'd prefer Quebec over an expansion team in

1C. Greater Toronto
20. Baltimore
21. Orlando
22. Charlotte
24. San Antonio
26. Austin
30. Cincinnati
33. Cleveland
34. Indianapolis - NBA arena seats 11,651 for hockey
37. Virginia Beach
38. Jacksonville
39. Providence
40. Milwaukee
43. Louisville
44. Richmond
45. Memphis
49. Grand Rapids
51. Hartford
53. Rochester
9C. Hamilton

Adding Atlanta and Houston moves Quebec closer, not further away.

Cincinnati would be the one to worry about, because a group would likely own a new arena, and there is no NBA threat there.

 

[KevFu]

Cincinnati would be the one to worry about, because a group would likely own a new arena, and there is no NBA threat there.

Yeah, but the whole point of Columbus was you give the state of Ohio one team, and they can have fans from Cleveland to Cincinnati, and not have two "small market teams" like they are in baseball and football.

The NHL's expansion successes have been places that they either (a) got to first or second or (b) are massive markets getting their 4th team.

Being the third team in Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, etc makes no sense. Being the first team in Quebec makes a lot more sense.

Plus I think there's gonna be some "Legacy shopping" for Bettman on his way out. Like if he makes Quebec the #36 team, even if the NHL sacrifices opportunity cost selling an expansion team to someone else... then he's leaving behind a league with nine more markets than when he took over, only ONE city who lost a team, six Top 20 markets added, etc, etc.

It's the perfect thing to be his second to last announcement, with his last being retirement.

 

[GKJ]

Yeah, but the whole point of Columbus was you give the state of Ohio one team, and they can have fans from Cleveland to Cincinnati, and not have two "small market teams" like they are in baseball and football.

The NHL's expansion successes have been places that they either (a) got to first or second or (b) are massive markets getting their 4th team.

Being the third team in Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, etc makes no sense. Being the first team in Quebec makes a lot more sense.

Plus I think there's gonna be some "Legacy shopping" for Bettman on his way out. Like if he makes Quebec the #36 team, even if the NHL sacrifices opportunity cost selling an expansion team to someone else... then he's leaving behind a league with nine more markets than when he took over, only ONE city who lost a team, six Top 20 markets added, etc, etc.

It's the perfect thing to be his second to last announcement, with his last being retirement.

The idea that they think they can in an implicit shot over the bow that they do not identify with Columbus, and they have not been a good enough franchise, for 25 years now, to demand that attention. The Blue Jackets have been more invested in Cleveland.

 

[squashmaple]

The idea that they think they can in an implicit shot over the bow that they do not identify with Columbus, and they have not been a good enough franchise, for 25 years now, to demand that attention. The Blue Jackets have been more invested in Cleveland.

Another thing to consider is MLS put a franchise in Cincinnati even though Columbus already had one, and it's been very successful down to a built-in rivalry with the Crew called the Hell is Real Cup after a famous billboard visible on the highway between the two cities. Columbus in general trends culturally much more closely with Cleveland in my experience as a NE Ohio native in Columbus, especially with sports. Cleveland is the Blue Jackets AHL affiliate while Columbus is the Guardians AAA affiliate. Anecdotally as a thirtysomething who only left working in bars since the pandemic, I also know far more Browns fans than I do Bengals fans even with the Burrow effect (probably because SE Ohioans are usually Steelers fans). Cincinnati is basically Kentucky. If there's determined rich local ownership, an acceptable arena, and instant success (even if it's just Seattle-level success), the Blue Jackets' existence will have absolutely no affect on a Cincinnati NHL club.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, but the whole point of Columbus was you give the state of Ohio one team, and they can have fans from Cleveland to Cincinnati, and not have two "small market teams" like they are in baseball and football.

The NHL's expansion successes have been places that they either (a) got to first or second or (b) are massive markets getting their 4th team.

Being the third team in Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, etc makes no sense. Being the first team in Quebec makes a lot more sense.

Plus I think there's gonna be some "Legacy shopping" for Bettman on his way out. Like if he makes Quebec the #36 team, even if the NHL sacrifices opportunity cost selling an expansion team to someone else... then he's leaving behind a league with nine more markets than when he took over, only ONE city who lost a team, six Top 20 markets added, etc, etc.

It's the perfect thing to be his second to last announcement, with his last being retirement.

And they discovered that giving a whole state a team, ignoring individual markets, doesn't really work in reality as well as it does in theory. Columbus is a big enough market on its own to justify having a team there, though, so it's not a problem.

As for ATL and HOU giving QC a better chance... I really don't think they do. The markets you listed aren't the most likely of the #36 options in the US, with maybe the exception of Austin... As I've said before, IMO, the most likely thing team 36 does is move a CST team into the Eastern Conference. Either Nashville or Chicago, more likely Nashville. Austin would do the same thing too.

 

[StreetHawk]

If you put an NBA team in Pittsburgh, I would bet that it would do fine. But one of my things I say about expansion is whether or not it expands the footprint. Not as much as other markets would.

With Pitt, have to consider their arena situation since the NBA did expansion. Minny, Charlotte, Miami, Orlando, then Toronto, Vancouver.

Clearly went older barns before Canada so guess they didn't view Pitt with Mellon as good an option as the other 4. PPG Paints Arena came along in 2010 and all of the last moves to Memphis, NO, OKC were done before then I believe.

Pitt not getting a team over LV/SEA. Not sure they would be one of the next 2 should the NBA either relocate a team or expand after 32 teams.