NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[um]

GTA2/Hamilton, Virginia Beach keeps sniffing around, they could flip Nashville to the Eastern Conference, at an extreme stretch, Indianapolis or Cincinnati, there are a couple things they can do if needed. Or, tbh, just live with 35 until something makes sense.

GTA 2 with Bell being the owner would be something.

 

[uhlaw97]

Given that Fertitta owns the arena inside which any hypothetical Houston NHL franchise would play, it is a given that he will need to be at least the 51% owner of any such franchise.

Perhaps he can get a bunch of other local investors together and come up with a bid no other city or potential owner can match.

 

[voyageur]

Tampa though is an established brand of 30 years, with an established fan base (and Stanley Cup winning pedigree) so I would expect them to be valued more than an expansion team in Houston or Atlanta.

But yeah - maybe Fertitta is trying to hold them to something closer to $1.2 billion, and the NHL is trying to go higher.

If the value of an expansion franchise is a $1 billion, he would have bought the Coyotes before Ryan Smith did. NHL would have taken $1 billion for that team to play in a full arena in a market that fit its needs.


I think Fertitta's number is considerably lower than a $1 billion. I don't think he wanted to get in at $500 million when the NHL was sniffing at the market. Maybe now, but seems like he doesn't think an NHL franchise is worth all that much. And maybe the numbers being thrown out are inflated, based on 2 recent sales.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

They basically had to build a Mini city to do it.

Existing and new arenas and stadiums around every league are building entertainment venues. This isn’t unique to the Braves.

 

[Headshot77]

Existing and new arenas and stadiums around every league are building entertainment venues. This isn’t unique to the Braves.

The Braves kinda did it first though

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The Braves kinda did it first though

Not at all. They even had the St Louis Cardinals as consultants since there’s is/was so successful

And I realize this is a stretch, but many arenas like Bridgestone and anything in Vegas are already surrounded by similar developments. Older venues like Fenway have had entertainment venues moving into surrounding spaces for a long time. It’s not a new concept.

 

[hangman005]

We built out entertainment district long before the arena.

 

[Tawnos]

Not at all. They even had the St Louis Cardinals as consultants since there’s is/was so successful

And I realize this is a stretch, but many arenas like Bridgestone and anything in Vegas are already surrounded by similar developments. Older venues like Fenway have had entertainment venues moving into surrounding spaces for a long time. It’s not a new concept.

I do think there's a distinction that needs to be made in the "mini city" concept. And that's residential. Most of the projects now include more than just entertainment and retail.

But to your point, it's not a new concept. Hell, IIRC Phase 2 of Westgate in Glendale was supposed to include residential and that goes back over 15 years. I think apartments eventually got built, but someone else can confirm or refute.

 

[Voight]

GTA 2 with Bell being the owner would be something.

Bell is broke. They sold their part of MLSE because they have enormous amounts of debt. They were downgraded to just above junk bonds last week.

 

[aqib]

https://www.chron.com/sports/article/tilman-fertitta-nhl-team-houston-19789684.php

"The NHL would be great in Houston, and they're looking to expand," Fertitta said at the unveiling of the Memorial Herman Houston Rockets Training Facility. "We're hoping that no team right now meets the price that they want [for] the expansion team. We're hoping somehow we can get the team by being one the best cities in America and paying the right price."

The price keeps rising. He could have had the Coyotes if he had been willing to pay the $1.2B that Smith paid. I keep pointing out he lost the bidding for the Rockets because he bid $80 million and Alexander bid $85 million. He winds up buying them years later for $2.2 billion. He's repeaating the error.

 

[dj4aces]

The Braves kinda did it first though

I think the Braves "did it first" only in terms of a fully constructed development in the suburbs. The Braves proved that anyone could move from downtown to the 'burbs so long as you build it and the market supports it. That's what kinda made people sit up and take notice, and in many ways, proved the point some of us Atlanta area residents have been saying about this city for over a decade.

This concept (mixed-use developments with a major league anchor in the suburbs) only works in a few places, with Atlanta being one of them. The city of Atlanta only has an estimated population of 510k right now (which would actually be a historical high in terms of population within the city limits. That means the remaining population live outside of downtown, with the majority of that population living north of the city.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Bell is broke. They sold their part of MLSE because they have enormous amounts of debt. They were downgraded to just above junk bonds last week.

Far be it for me to be a BCE cheerleader, but BCE's debt is problematic, but I would hardly call the company "broke" - in particular after raising this much cash from selling its share of MLSE.

But you're right - BCE hardly seems to be in the mood to be investing in a Toronto2 franchise.

 

[StreetHawk]

The price keeps rising. He could have had the Coyotes if he had been willing to pay the $1.2B that Smith paid. I keep pointing out he lost the bidding for the Rockets because he bid $80 million and Alexander bid $85 million. He winds up buying them years later for $2.2 billion. He's repeaating the error.

Atl seems like a like for expansion. 2 parties want to replicate the battery for an indoor arena.
Houston, unless someone else steps up to replicate what the Atl bids are doing, it’s down to Fertitia. NHL clubs are not tenants to an arena controlled by an NBA owner. Nash is a tenant to the city run Bridgestone Arena.

 

[ponder719]

Far be it for me to be a BCE cheerleader, but BCE's debt is problematic, but I would hardly call the company "broke" - in particular after raising this much cash from selling its share of MLSE.

But you're right - BCE hardly seems to be in the mood to be investing in a Toronto2 franchise.

And if they did, for whatever reason, want to get back into NHL ownership (which there is plenty of reason to doubt) there are substantially cheaper ways to do that than to try and muscle their way back into the Toronto media market.

 

[aqib]

Far be it for me to be a BCE cheerleader, but BCE's debt is problematic, but I would hardly call the company "broke" - in particular after raising this much cash from selling its share of MLSE.

But you're right - BCE hardly seems to be in the mood to be investing in a Toronto2 franchise.

BCE still owns a stake in the Habs. Even when they bought into MLSE they had to split their ownership interest between BCE and the Bell Pension Fund to keep it under 30%. So they won't be the main owner of another team. They could be an investor in QC or Montreal NBA.

 

[Yukon Joe]

And if they did, for whatever reason, want to get back into NHL ownership (which there is plenty of reason to doubt) there are substantially cheaper ways to do that than to try and muscle their way back into the Toronto media market.

But sports ownership, by itself, is a far way from BCE's core competencies of being a telecom / media company. The only reason for a BCE to want to own a sports franchise is because of the synergies involved with owning a media company. In Canada, the biggest media market (by far) is Toronto.

There'd be no benefit to BCE to owning a franchise in Quebec.

BCE is different from Rogers in that it is not dominated by a single shareholder, where individual ego may insist on owning a team even if not otherwise a great investment.

 

[Yukon Joe]

BCE still owns a stake in the Habs. Even when they bought into MLSE they had to split their ownership interest between BCE and the Bell Pension Fund to keep it under 30%. So they won't be the main owner of another team. They could be an investor in QC or Montreal NBA.

But why? The advantage to owning a share of MLSE is they guaranteed local rights to half of all Raptors and Leafs games. They've now locked down those rights for the next 20 years anyways. They also have the rights to English and french Canadiens games.

Would securing the rights to Montreal NBA tv rights really be worth the $3-4 billion a franchise in Montreal would cost? Quebec NHL rights would be worth even less, as I'd think there'd be little demand in English, thus only being meaningful to RDS in French.


Edit: the difference with Rogers being that A: there is a single owner who maybe just enjoys owning sports teams, and B: they do have some corporate experience owning sports franchises through their ownership of the Jays.

 

[um]

Bell is broke. They sold their part of MLSE because they have enormous amounts of debt. They were downgraded to just above junk bonds last week.

Interersting. There goes my hope.