Nhl.com writers vote Mackinnon mvp for the 2nd straight year

[Matsun]

Is this ends up being the MVP finishes then here are how big guys of this generation stack up:

Player	Top 3 in scoring	Top 5 in scoring	Top 3 in Hart voting	Top 5 in Hart voting
McDavid	8	8	6	8
Kucherov	5	6	3	3
MacKinnon	2	5	5	6
Draisaitl	4	6	1	2
Pastrnak	2	3	1	2
Panarin	1	2	1	2
Matthews	0	1	2	3

MacKinnon has the 2nd best hart finishes but Kucherov has clearly the 2nd best scoring finishes. It's easy to understand why Draisaitl gets snubbed in Hart voting (McDavid) but Kucherov has also been getting low Hart finishes compared to his point finishes his entire career.

 

[Master P]

Replace Mackinnon with Makar.

1. Kucherov
2. Hellebuyck
3. Draisaitle
4. Makar

 

[Fantomas]

Not even the best player on his own team.

Which is not an insult, but still...

 

[GhostfaceWu]

This votings are so biased, they are not worth a lot tbh if you look at them from an objective standpoint.

All 4 had a hell of a season, was fun to follow!
Unfortunately Drai's injury came at the worst possible time of the season.

Lol if Hellebyuk is being placed in the top 3 there is no way Kucherov should be top 2 go look at his teammate Vasys numbers they are literally right there with Hellebyuks.

 

[Master P]

Lol if Hellebyuk is being placed in the top 3 there is no way Kucherov should be top 2 go look at his teammate Vasys numbers they are literally right there with Hellebyuks.

Then shouldn't Vassy be in the Hart conversation?

Or is Hellebyuks season just a vezina season and not a hart one?

 

[Felidae]

Mitch Marner should be in the convo. First time he's decisively outproduced Matthews, is 5th in scoring while being one of the best two way wingers in the game.

Marner is the only player with over 50 points that is in the top 20 in Shorthanded ATOI.

 

[Video Nasty]

It will almost certainly be the first season since McDavid’s rookie year that he isn’t voted a top five candidate. Sprinkle in the sixth place scoring finish. Thank god he still reached 100 and extended his top 2 PPG finish to nine straight seasons and top 3 for all ten or I’d be jumping off a really tall building.

I need that Cup win to come through bad.

 

[pi314]

When MacKinnon wins a cup it’s because he’s a #Winner. He puts up his stats because it helps the team #Win. He could score even more points if he felt like it but he’s just too busy #Winning.

Kucherov wins two Cups but he’s just one piece of a great overall team. When he puts up stats it’s an indicator of greed and selfishness, a guy who puts his own accomplishments before the good of the team.

Yes and no.

I have a few friends who are former NHL players, and most of them find it funny how fans obsess over stats and use them to decide who the best player is.

The truth is, there are so many ways to pad your personal stats during a game that have nothing to do with actually helping your team win—and some players do that more than others.

These guys tend to value a player’s total contribution to the game, not just the flashy numbers.

They really pay attention to the defensive work, the little plays that don’t show up on the scoresheet but matter just as much. I’m not saying there’s no bias against Kucherov, but I think most fans just look at similar stats and assume one player is better.

The people who actually vote on this stuff often see the game in a completely different way.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yes and no.

I have a few friends who are former NHL players, and most of them find it funny how fans obsess over stats and use them to decide who the best player is.

The truth is, there are so many ways to pad your personal stats during a game that have nothing to do with actually helping your team win—and some players do that more than others.

These guys tend to value a player’s total contribution to the game, not just the flashy numbers.

They really pay attention to the defensive work, the little plays that don’t show up on the scoresheet but matter just as much. I’m not saying there’s no bias against Kucherov, but I think most fans just look at similar stats and assume one player is better.

The people who actually vote on this stuff often see the game in a completely different way.

Who are “these guys” serving as the faithful vanguard? A lot of former players that get paid to talk on tv about it come off as idiots.

 

[UED]

Yes and no.

I have a few friends who are former NHL players, and most of them find it funny how fans obsess over stats and use them to decide who the best player is.

The truth is, there are so many ways to pad your personal stats during a game that have nothing to do with actually helping your team win—and some players do that more than others.

These guys tend to value a player’s total contribution to the game, not just the flashy numbers.

They really pay attention to the defensive work, the little plays that don’t show up on the scoresheet but matter just as much. I’m not saying there’s no bias against Kucherov, but I think most fans just look at similar stats and assume one player is better.

The people who actually vote on this stuff often see the game in a completely different way.

Nope, the Hart is voted on by random writers who generally just sort by points like their other fellow fans.

 

[mobilus]

Who are “these guys” serving as the faithful vanguard? A lot of former players that get paid to talk on tv about it come off as idiots.

Those on tv have to talk 82 times a year. Eventually you run out of things of value to say. Kinda like here when people have a truck load of posts.

 

[JackSlater]

Yes and no.

I have a few friends who are former NHL players, and most of them find it funny how fans obsess over stats and use them to decide who the best player is.

The truth is, there are so many ways to pad your personal stats during a game that have nothing to do with actually helping your team win—and some players do that more than others.

These guys tend to value a player’s total contribution to the game, not just the flashy numbers.

They really pay attention to the defensive work, the little plays that don’t show up on the scoresheet but matter just as much. I’m not saying there’s no bias against Kucherov, but I think most fans just look at similar stats and assume one player is better.

The people who actually vote on this stuff often see the game in a completely different way.

I agree that athletes often don't fixate on sports the way that fans do. I think it's also that fans don't have a good grasp of math in most cases, at least in terms of what is significant. Kucherov outscoring MacKinnon by 4% is not some significant margin at all, and certainly not enough to justify pissy tantrums over the mere prospect of him not getting an award.

That said.... the bolded part is pretty ridiculous to me. The voters are just random media people, they are far from experts in the vast majority of cases and their choices shouldn't be taken all that seriously. When experts do give opinions fans often take it even worse.

 

[zeykshade]

Worse in every measurable way than last season and up for another Hart having never won a scoring title? That's some next level charity shit.

 

[Nathaniel]

Worse in every measurable way than last season and up for another Hart having never won a scoring title? That's some next level charity shit.

He finished 2nd in points and 1st in assists. Not like he was not right up there. Regardless drai was the mvp n its a shame the missed games will cost him the hart

 

[Master P]

Both Mack and Draisatile have teammates in the top 10 in scoring.

The next closest player for Tampa is Hagel but they played on separate lines.

 

[Puckstop40]

Avs fan saying Hellebuyk

 

[tabness]

Makar was probably MVP of the Avs, but eh, more worthy than Kucherov, Draisaitl missed too many games, and goalies shouldn't win MVP

 

[Chips]

Should be Helle


I wouldn’t mind Mack winning it this year if he wasn’t given the Overdue Hart last year when Kucherov deserved it.

 

[yeaher]

Nate's 300 20+mph sprints are worth the Hart hth

 

[DFC]

Then shouldn't Vassy be in the Hart conversation?

Or is Hellebyuks season just a vezina season and not a hart one?

Kucherov had a great season, but Vasy kind of would be neck and neck with him.

Our team, top to bottom, just played a lot better.

 

[DFC]

Both Mack and Draisatile have teammates in the top 10 in scoring.

The next closest player for Tampa is Hagel but they played on separate lines.

I think that's more case for the Lindsay, and actually hurts Kucherov's Hart case. He really wasn't the sole engine for TB this year. I mean, I say that while thinking he's clearly the second best player in the league.

 

[Chips]

Mack's win last year wasn't a robbery. At minimum he was just as worthy as Kucherov. This year it should've gone to a healthy Draisaitl anyway.

I don't know why TBL fans are being so salty. Their guy won 3 Ross trophies which is insanely impressive and they've got the two COVID Cups. MacKinnon had a great season too, get over it.

Kuch scored at a much higher rate against top 10 teams compared to bottom 10 teams.


MacKinnon and McDavid were the exact opposite, feasting on bottom 10 teams.


If anything it’s almost as if Kuch took his foot off the gas against weak teams.



MacKinon won from a combination of being overdue, main hockey media constantly adoring The Big Three (Canadian) Centers (evidenced in part by them receiving way more hype in the media for years). Arguably surpassed by his teammate at times.

And Kucherov having a likability problem. The all star game, his general No f***s attitude, and the “Russian in Florida” combo, despite being easily his teams best player last season.



Kuch is overall way less hyped over the years. He’s accomplished as much or more than some players you’ll hear more about.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

MacKinnon fanboys are completely insufferable.

You realize it's just one guy right? Most of the rest of us have already stated that MacKinnon probably shouldn't get the Hart

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Then shouldn't Vassy be in the Hart conversation?

Or is Hellebyuks season just a vezina season and not a hart one?

That was my point. Cant have two players for the same team as hart players over draisaitl period

 

[a mangy Meowth]

If anything it’s almost as if Kuch took his foot off the gas against weak teams.

Today I learned that Kucherov could have scored more points, but he wanted to show mercy to the bad teams