NHL cautiously optimistic about 2021 World Cup.

[The Kingslayer]

Sweet. Love any best on best tourney.

 

[Zine]

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous argument. I'm glad you don't consider the IIHF to be hostile to the idea of holding the World Championships outside of Europe any more. If the IIHF had a grain of integrity they would have been bending over backwards for the last 50 years trying to figure out ways to attract interest to their "top" tournament outside of Europe. North America is by far the world's biggest hockey market, both in the number of fans and even more so in terms of $$$ and the IIHF has done absolutely nothing to encourage holding a men's tournament over here.

You have to look at the world around you and gauge what is going on, or you will always be lost and wondering. Theokritos pointed out that Canada and the United States never bid to hold the WC's in North America. Since the IIHF lacks the legal authority to force Canada to host the tournament whether they want to or not, you might start to look around and wonder if there might just be some reasons WHY Canada doesn't want to host the WC. Let me think.....just a minute......no, not that! Oh wait, maybe, let me think, maybe...………., maybe its because during the first 3 weeks of May, when the WC is held, you are also right in the middle of the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Stanley Cup playoffs are held in North America...I think I'm starting to get it. Hockey Canada has decided not to sabotage the NHL by competing with them for attention during the heart of the Stanley Cup Playoffs!!! Wow, that's brilliant...why didn't I think of that before?

Wait, unbelievable, I've got the perfect solution that gives a double-win to the Canadian fans. After the NHL season ends on April 10, suspend the Stanley Cup playoffs until July 15th. That gives plenty of time to enjoy the best hockey in the world during the WC's, and then, when Gold has been crowned, pick up the Stanley Cup in mid-July. God, I'm amazing the way I solved that. Somehow, I came up with the perfect solution!

The IIHF is only the sum of its parts; a device to assist federations. Its programs and tournaments are convenient resources for members to raise money and to grow the game. It’s the member’s responsibility to take advantage.
As such, it is, first and foremost, in a members’ interest to promote a tournament in one’s own country as the host receives the vast, vast majority of profits.
That said, there’s not much the IIHF can do if a member opts to not use the resources offered (i.e. chooses not to host tournaments).

As it is with life, nobody is gonna help you unless you first help yourself.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

You have to look at the world around you and gauge what is going on, or you will always be lost and wondering. Theokritos pointed out that Canada and the United States never bid to hold the WC's in North America. Since the IIHF lacks the legal authority to force Canada to host the tournament whether they want to or not, you might start to look around and wonder if there might just be some reasons WHY Canada doesn't want to host the WC. Let me think.....just a minute......no, not that! Oh wait, maybe, let me think, maybe...………., maybe its because during the first 3 weeks of May, when the WC is held, you are also right in the middle of the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Stanley Cup playoffs are held in North America...I think I'm starting to get it. Hockey Canada has decided not to sabotage the NHL by competing with them for attention during the heart of the Stanley Cup Playoffs!!! Wow, that's brilliant...why didn't I think of that before?

Wait, unbelievable, I've got the perfect solution that gives a double-win to the Canadian fans. After the NHL season ends on April 10, suspend the Stanley Cup playoffs until July 15th. That gives plenty of time to enjoy the best hockey in the world during the WC's, and then, when Gold has been crowned, pick up the Stanley Cup in mid-July. God, I'm amazing the way I solved that. Somehow, I came up with the perfect solution!

You may not have noticed but Hockey Canada has zero control over the NHL, not to mention ~80% of the teams are based in the USA. The NHL has no reason to accommodate the IIHF, but the IIHF could have very easily accommodated holding the WC in NA by shifting the dates of their tournament. Heck the IIHF could have even rented some NA arenas themselves and organized a WC in NA on their own.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

The IIHF is only the sum of its parts; a device to assist federations. Its programs and tournaments are convenient resources for members to raise money and to grow the game. It’s the member’s responsibility to take advantage.
As such, it is, first and foremost, in a members’ interest to promote a tournament in one’s own country as the host receives the vast, vast majority of profits.
That said, there’s not much the IIHF can do if a member opts to not use the resources offered (i.e. chooses not to host tournaments).

As it is with life, nobody is gonna help you unless you first help yourself.

Sure there is. They could accommodate North Americans by shifting the dates of their tournament once and a while (e.g. 2022 FIFA WCUP). They could proactively organize a tournament themselves in NA in order to grow interest in their product. They could have fought to include all countries best players as FIFA did way back in the 1930's. Don't get me wrong, FIFA are probably even more corrupt than the IOC and IIHF combined, but they sure knew how to grow an international competition.

 

[Yakushev72]

Sure there is. They could accommodate North Americans by shifting the dates of their tournament once and a while (e.g. 2022 FIFA WCUP). They could proactively organize a tournament themselves in NA in order to grow interest in their product. They could have fought to include all countries best players as FIFA did way back in the 1930's. Don't get me wrong, FIFA are probably even more corrupt than the IOC and IIHF combined, but they sure knew how to grow an international competition.

They don't schedule the World Cup of football based on when the club teams in Peru finish their season. Its the other way around. The NHL is a very wealthy corporation, but it is secondary to the importance of World hockey. Canadian fans confirm this opinion when they place ultimate value in the Olympic Games when the NHL fully participates in it.

 

[Jussi]

You may not have noticed but Hockey Canada has zero control over the NHL, not to mention ~80% of the teams are based in the USA. The NHL has no reason to accommodate the IIHF, but the IIHF could have very easily accommodated holding the WC in NA by shifting the dates of their tournament. Heck the IIHF could have even rented some NA arenas themselves and organized a WC in NA on their own.

It would require approval from all member associations and since holding it in any other time of the years would be struck down by the players and clubs, it would also be unanimously voted down by all members.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

They don't schedule the World Cup of football based on when the club teams in Peru finish their season. Its the other way around. The NHL is a very wealthy corporation, but it is secondary to the importance of World hockey. Canadian fans confirm this opinion when they place ultimate value in the Olympic Games when the NHL fully participates in it.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

It would require approval from all member associations and since holding it in any other time of the years would be struck down by the players and clubs, it would also be unanimously voted down by all members.

Hence why I said earlier it was a Eurocentric organization that needed to be disbanded

 

[JackSlater]

They don't schedule the World Cup of football based on when the club teams in Peru finish their season. Its the other way around. The NHL is a very wealthy corporation, but it is secondary to the importance of World hockey. Canadian fans confirm this opinion when they place ultimate value in the Olympic Games when the NHL fully participates in it.

For better or worse, if you asked most Canadians if they would prefer Canada win an Olympic gold medal in hockey or their favourite team win the Stanley Cup, you can bet that the Stanley Cup would get more votes.

 

[Jussi]

Hence why I said earlier it was a Eurocentric organization that needed to be disbanded

Most top team sport governing bodies tend to be that. And it's also a good thing it's a majority vote where minorities don't dictate matters.

 

[Yakushev72]

For better or worse, if you asked most Canadians if they would prefer Canada win an Olympic gold medal in hockey or their favourite team win the Stanley Cup, you can bet that the Stanley Cup would get more votes.

I think the evidence overwhelmingly confirms your conclusion. The discussion with Mr. Kanadensisk and others has focused on whether Canada has been victimized by the IIHF, not on whether Canadians prefer international hockey over the Stanley Cup. Specifically, while arguing that home-ice advantage plays no role at all when it comes to the Canada Cup or World Cup, Mr. Kanadensisk and other Canadian posters argue that Canada is at a huge disadvantage at the World Championships because European teams always have home-ice advantage. In other words, what is a non-factor in North America is the decisive factor in games played in Europe. Mr. Kanadensisk and his cohorts were not persuaded that it was a little too much to ask the IIHF to cancel the WC until mid-summer in order to permit the SC to be completed first.

 

[Jussi]

I think the evidence overwhelmingly confirms your conclusion. The discussion with Mr. Kanadensisk and others has focused on whether Canada has been victimized by the IIHF, not on whether Canadians prefer international hockey over the Stanley Cup. Specifically, while arguing that home-ice advantage plays no role at all when it comes to the Canada Cup or World Cup, Mr. Kanadensisk and other Canadian posters argue that Canada is at a huge disadvantage at the World Championships because European teams always have home-ice advantage. In other words, what is a non-factor in North America is the decisive factor in games played in Europe. Mr. Kanadensisk and his cohorts were not persuaded that it was a little too much to ask the IIHF to cancel the WC until mid-summer in order to permit the SC to be completed first.

Well it was obvious that Canada was at a huge disadvantage this May in Bratislava, Slovakia, facing a Team Finland with zero NHL players. They really had no chance in the final.

 

[Zine]

Sure there is. They could accommodate North Americans by shifting the dates of their tournament once and a while (e.g. 2022 FIFA WCUP). They could proactively organize a tournament themselves in NA in order to grow interest in their product. They could have fought to include all countries best players as FIFA did way back in the 1930's. Don't get me wrong, FIFA are probably even more corrupt than the IOC and IIHF combined, but they sure knew how to grow an international competition.

None of this will occur without Hockey Canada and USA Hockey taking the lead. That's how a federation works. Each country is responsible for the game in its own country. The IIHF is a resource to assist.
You want to change the dates of a tournament?...be proactive.
We're currently seeing this process in action with the IIHF strongly considering moving all tournaments to small ice.

Another example: Hockey Canada deeply desires the WJC and are proactive about it. They were accommodated by the IIHF. They host it every other year, much to the chagrin of other country's fans. But whatever, good for Canada.

If you desire something, don't sit on the sidelines whine and cry. Do something.

 

[JackSlater]

I think the evidence overwhelmingly confirms your conclusion. The discussion with Mr. Kanadensisk and others has focused on whether Canada has been victimized by the IIHF, not on whether Canadians prefer international hockey over the Stanley Cup. Specifically, while arguing that home-ice advantage plays no role at all when it comes to the Canada Cup or World Cup, Mr. Kanadensisk and other Canadian posters argue that Canada is at a huge disadvantage at the World Championships because European teams always have home-ice advantage. In other words, what is a non-factor in North America is the decisive factor in games played in Europe. Mr. Kanadensisk and his cohorts were not persuaded that it was a little too much to ask the IIHF to cancel the WC until mid-summer in order to permit the SC to be completed first.

The IIHF, in recent times, has been very friendly toward Canada. There is no way for the IIHF to accommodate the NHL given when European leagues typically end, but it has made an effort. Of course, the IIHF should have made inroads with the NHL many decades ago in an effort to have NHL participation in its world championship tournament. For instance, when the NHL used to end its playoffs in April, the IIHF held the tournament in March. It's too late to fix these issues though.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Most top team sport governing bodies tend to be that. And it's also a good thing it's a majority vote where minorities don't dictate matters.

Yes and it's a terrible system that gives countries with next to no participants a hugely disproportionate amount of the power. It is exactly what you say, a minority of the people can dictate to the majority.

 

[Jussi]

Yes and it's a terrible system that gives countries with next to no participants a hugely disproportionate amount of the power. It is exactly what you say, a minority of the people can dictate to the majority.

It's called democracy. Civilized countries have a preference for it.

 

[Zine]

It's called democracy. Civilized countries have a preference for it.

By and large the IIHF's structure correlates to that of democracies today; particularly for an international federation. No civilized democracy implements an unchecked majority rule structure.

 

[BOS358]

They could accommodate North Americans by shifting the dates of their tournament once and a while (e.g. 2022 FIFA WCUP)

Ummm...you are aware that the 2022 World Cup was shifted due to a reason that had nothing to do with accomodating the Qatari pro league, right?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

I think the evidence overwhelmingly confirms your conclusion. The discussion with Mr. Kanadensisk and others has focused on whether Canada has been victimized by the IIHF, not on whether Canadians prefer international hockey over the Stanley Cup. Specifically, while arguing that home-ice advantage plays no role at all when it comes to the Canada Cup or World Cup, Mr. Kanadensisk and other Canadian posters argue that Canada is at a huge disadvantage at the World Championships because European teams always have home-ice advantage. In other words, what is a non-factor in North America is the decisive factor in games played in Europe. Mr. Kanadensisk and his cohorts were not persuaded that it was a little too much to ask the IIHF to cancel the WC until mid-summer in order to permit the SC to be completed first.

Ha, what a joke, that isn't at all what I have said.

 

[BOS358]

Yes and it's a terrible system that gives countries with next to no participants a hugely disproportionate amount of the power. It is exactly what you say, a minority of the people can dictate to the majority.

Uh oh, did little Andorra hurt your feelings?

I know, it's surprising that there are leagues outside of the NHL and that the IIHF has to accommodate them as well. If the NHL actually cared about the game outside the US and Canadian borders, it could shorten its season or start it earlier. The NHL has shown no effort whatsoever to work with any international entity, including the world governing body.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

None of this will occur without Hockey Canada and USA Hockey taking the lead. That's how a federation works. Each country is responsible for the game in its own country. The IIHF is a resource to assist.
You want to change the dates of a tournament?...be proactive.
We're currently seeing this process in action with the IIHF strongly considering moving all tournaments to small ice.

Another example: Hockey Canada deeply desires the WJC and are proactive about it. They were accommodated by the IIHF. They host it every other year, much to the chagrin of other country's fans. But whatever, good for Canada.

If you desire something, don't sit on the sidelines whine and cry. Do something.

Ha, I'll be okay, I just hope you can learn to love a World Cup controlled completely by the NHL, because if the IIHF and its European members don't figure out how to reform themselves then it is likely the closest thing to best on hockey you are going to see for a very long time.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

It's called democracy. Civilized countries have a preference for it.

the last I checked democracy was based on equality for people, not countries. Giving a country of 5 million people the same power as one with 500 million is fundamentally undemocratic.

 

[Yakushev72]

The IIHF, in recent times, has been very friendly toward Canada. There is no way for the IIHF to accommodate the NHL given when European leagues typically end, but it has made an effort. Of course, the IIHF should have made inroads with the NHL many decades ago in an effort to have NHL participation in its world championship tournament. For instance, when the NHL used to end its playoffs in April, the IIHF held the tournament in March. It's too late to fix these issues though.

True. Once NHL players started playing regularly in the WC in the late 70's, the IIHF moved the start from mid-April to early May to accommodate more NHL players. Usually by early May, 22-24 NHL teams have been eliminated from the SC Playoffs. And of course, Canada has won more than its fair share of Gold Medals in Europe, most recently in 2015-16. So they are overcoming any disadvantage quite well!

 

[Yakushev72]

Well it was obvious that Canada was a huge disadvantage this May in Bratislava, Slovakia, facing a Team Finland with zero NHL players. They really had no chance in the final.

Russian fans would love to gloat, but Finland smacked us as well! My opinion is that, as of now, Finland is playing the best hockey and producing the best hockey players in the World. Especially on a per capita (population) basis. If I'm not mistaken, like Canada, hockey is the national sport among the Suomi.

 

[JackSlater]

the last I checked democracy was based on equality for people, not countries. Giving a country of 5 million people the same power as one with 500 million is fundamentally undemocratic.

You fool what Canada should do is splinter into 13 separate countries and wield 13 times the power for the exact same number of hockey players. Then, USA can splinter into 50 countries, and North America can basically run the whole IIHF.