NHL cautiously optimistic about 2021 World Cup.

[Czechboy]

If you actually don't know, Google is your friend. I already answered your question about whether Canada Cups and World Cups had ever totaled 64 games in 50 years (74 games after just the first 15 years...boy were you wrong to question it) and I corrected you on how many games the Worlds had when they were held in Canada

My answer is ZERO... I don't need Google for this. However, I make mistakes. Please send me a link to any of the games that were in Europe. Pretty sure the Onus is on you to prove this one... also, good luck.

The Canada Cups from 1976-1991 had 74 games (and the 2008 Worlds held in Canada had 16 teams playing 54 games)

So... 54 World Championshiop games in Canada in last 100 years to how many Canada Cup/World Cup games in Europe?

I'll gladly concede my 64 should say 54... however you are missing a key point of my question:

In the last 100 years, Canada has hosted 64 World Championship games. Europe has hosted ??? World Cup/Canada Cup games.

I didn't ask how many Canada Cup/World Cup games have happened.. I asked how many happened in Europe?

 

[BOS358]

As long as the NHL and NHLPA continue hosting the "World Cup," there will not be full national teams. The NHL wants the exposure for their players and their players only. The NHLPA will not share their cut of the proceeds with non-members. It's kinda simple if you think about it.

Here's a solution: During the All-Star Break, have a "Team North America" and "Team Europe" play a series. That way it will be the "best players playing the best players," or, if you prefer, "best on best." Problem solved.

 

[Nino33]

Please send me a link to any of the games that were in Europe. Pretty sure the Onus is on you to prove this one... also, good luck.

Actually I never mentioned Europe, I've no need to prove anything...

I didn't ask how many Canada Cup/World Cup games have happened.. I asked how many happened in Europe?

...I answered the question you asked below, that's all

However, even one tournament must have about 40 games in it... ok, googled it, 64 games. You think there have been 64 World Cup/Canada cup games in the last 50 years? I'll leave that google to you...

As I've said, I want a best-on-best tournament with a round-robin where everyone plays everyone once and then playoffs. I never mentioned where the games should be held because I don't really care!



You seem to be looking for an argument, and I've no interest in arguing your points with you; have a good evening

 

[Nino33]

As long as the NHL and NHLPA continue hosting the "World Cup," there will not be full national teams. The NHL wants the exposure for their players and their players only. The NHLPA will not share their cut of the proceeds with non-members. It's kinda simple if you think about it.

That would suck

I didn't consider the 2016 WC legitimate (I by choice never watched a single minute of the "fake" teams) & I hoped they'd never do anything like that again...but the ideas floated for the next WC aren't at all OK to me either

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

My answer is ZERO... I don't need Google for this. However, I make mistakes. Please send me a link to any of the games that were in Europe. Pretty sure the Onus is on you to prove this one... also, good luck.

The Canada Cups from 1976-1991 had 74 games (and the 2008 Worlds held in Canada had 16 teams playing 54 games)

So... 54 World Championshiop games in Canada in last 100 years to how many Canada Cup/World Cup games in Europe?

I'll gladly concede my 64 should say 54... however you are missing a key point of my question:

In the last 100 years, Canada has hosted 64 World Championship games. Europe has hosted ??? World Cup/Canada Cup games.

I didn't ask how many Canada Cup/World Cup games have happened.. I asked how many happened in Europe?

There were 93 Canada Cup games and 54 World Cup games, with 14 of the World Cup games played in Europe. This works out to roughly 10% of the Canada/World Cup games were played in Europe.

In comparison since 1976 the IIHF have held 41 World Championships and only one of them was hosted outside of Europe. I'm not going to add up all of the games at the IIHF tournaments since 1976, but obviously way less than 10% of the games were played outside of Europe.

I just think it's funny that Euro fans loving dumping on the NHL for hosting these tournaments yet the NHL has shown less of a bias towards North America than the IIHF has towards Europe. For the IIHF not to have held a single World Championship game in the USA in almost 60 years is utterly shameful and beyond that only held the tournament outside of Europe twice in 100 years. The IIHF is a Eurocentric joke that needs to be disbanded.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

duplicate

 

[Yakushev72]

There were 93 Canada Cup games and 54 World Cup games, with 14 of the World Cup games played in Europe. This works out to roughly 10% of the Canada/World Cup games were played in Europe.

In comparison since 1976 the IIHF have held 41 World Championships and only one of them was hosted outside of Europe. I'm not going to add up all of the games at the IIHF tournaments since 1976, but obviously way less than 10% of the games were played outside of Europe.

I just think it's funny that Euro fans loving dumping on the NHL for hosting these tournaments yet the NHL has shown less of a bias towards North America than the IIHF has towards Europe. For the IIHF not to have held a single World Championship game in the USA in almost 60 years is utterly shameful and beyond that only held the tournament outside of Europe twice in 100 years. The IIHF is a Eurocentric joke that needs to be disbanded.

How many of those Canada Cup/World Cup games involved Canada travelling to Europe to play on European soil? Is it less than zero? These teams, as I recall, were European teams playing against each other, and then having to travel half way around the World to Canada for the rest of the games, maybe so that the Canadian organizers could make a half-ass claim that the tournaments were somewhat fair. The fact that for 2 of the 5 Canada Cups the Soviets sent B teams suggests that they were only in those tournaments for the money, while keeping focus on the real championships (World and Olympic). The World Cups came after the Soviet Union ceased to exist, and the quality of Russian hockey plummeted.

 

[Theokritos]

The funny thing is I'm pretty sure if you crunched the numbers in the last 50 years there has been a higher percentage of Canada Cup / World Cup games played in Europe than there has been IIHF World Championship games played outside of Europe.

We've been through this before. If you want to host a World Championship, you have to submit a bid. How many times have Canada and the USA done that? Canada two times, the USA zero times? That's on them, not the IIHF.

Is the IIHF eurocentric? Yes. Is it hostile to North America and preventing Canada and the USA from hosting World Championships? In this day and age, certainly not. Canada aked to host it in 2005 and they got it. To this day, the world is still waiting for another bid from North America.

 

[Czechboy]

We've been through this before. If you want to host a World Championship, you have to submit a bid. How many times have Canada and the USA done that? Canada two times, the USA zero times? That's on them, not the IIHF.

Is the IIHF eurocentric? Yes. Is it hostile to North America and preventing Canada and the USA from hosting World Championships? In this day and age, certainly not. Canada aked to host it in 2005 and they got it. To this day, the world is still waiting for another bid from North America.

I seem to recall that when it was in Canada that the games were still at 10am and 2pm EST to appease the Euro crowd. The World's just don't seem that important in North America. I seriously doubt many Americans even watch the World Championships. As recently as 5 years ago, TSN didn't even carry all the games and I had to buy youtube passes to watch the games on lousy feeds with South African commentators (he was actually pretty good!). Now, every game is televized and I still never hear people talking about it.

Shame, as it's my favourite tourney of the year! Mind you, Oiler's fan... so not like I have any hockey to watch in April anyways.

 

[Nino33]

We've been through this before. If you want to host a World Championship, you have to submit a bid. How many times have Canada and the USA done that? Canada two times, the USA zero times? That's on them, not the IIHF.

Is the IIHF eurocentric? Yes. Is it hostile to North America and preventing Canada and the USA from hosting World Championships? In this day and age, certainly not. Canada aked to host it in 2005 and they got it. To this day, the world is still waiting for another bid from North America.

The Worlds have nothing to do with this topic, they were brought into the discussion to derail discussion about the NHL/World Cup and bash NA/the NHL (and relive perceived wrongs going back decades) - this kind of attacking behavior is popular in this particular forum (see the current CHL threads for more of the same)



P.S. North America's not asking for the Worlds to be held in NA because it has little to no interest in the Worlds (and never has)

 

[Nino33]

The World's just don't seem that important in North America. I seriously doubt many Americans even watch the World Championships.

You must be really, really new to hockey. The Worlds have never been important in NA (I thought this was common knowledge among hockey fans).

Over the years the Worlds has only gotten less relevant, and even the players themselves now care less/skip the Worlds (including Europeans/Russians)

When it comes to best-on-best hockey, it's not Eurocentric that's the issue for the IIHF, it's being irrelevant

 

[Theokritos]

P.S. North America's not asking for the Worlds to be held in NA because it has little to no interest in the Worlds (and never has)

That's a legit take, but here is what the Canadian poster I'm arguing with said:

The funny thing is I'm pretty sure if you crunched the numbers in the last 50 years there has been a higher percentage of Canada Cup / World Cup games played in Europe than there has been IIHF World Championship games played outside of Europe.

You will to agree that my reply to that was fair. No?

 

[Nino33]

That's a legit take, but here is what the Canadian poster I'm arguing with said:

But it's not something the Czech poster seemed to be aware of at all

You will to agree that my reply to that was fair. No?

I thought the poster was responding to the Czech poster who was trying to bring the Worlds into this discussion about the NHL and the World Cup (and present the Worlds as positive and the NHL/NA as negative)

I didn't think at all that the poster you responded to was advocating for Worlds in NA or complaining that there wasn't (which is what your post referenced).

 

[Theokritos]

But it's not something the Czech poster seemed to be aware of at all

He wrote that the Worlds are not really rated in NA and you agree with him on that.

I thought the poster was responding to the Czech poster who was trying to bring the Worlds into this discussion about the NHL and the World Cup (and present the Worlds as positive and the NHL/NA as negative)

I didn't think at all that the poster you responded to was advocating for Worlds in NA or complaining that there wasn't (which is what your post referenced).

Fact of the matter is, he's using it as an argument against the IIHF:

For the IIHF not to have held a single World Championship game in the USA in almost 60 years is utterly shameful

 

[Nino33]

He wrote that the Worlds are not really rated in NA and you agree with him on that.

Actually he wrote " The World's just don't seem that important in North America. I seriously doubt many Americans even watch the World Championships" after I had said "North America's not asking for the Worlds to be held in NA because it has little to no interest in the Worlds (and never has)"

This was new information for him (I've known this since the 1970s)

Fact of the matter is, he's using it as an argument against the IIHF:

Why did you crop out the sentence right before that explains the context? It says "I just think it's funny that Euro fans loving dumping on the NHL for hosting these tournaments yet the NHL has shown less of a bias towards North America than the IIHF has towards Europe."

He was using it in regards to "Euro fans loving dumping on the NHL" (just like I said)




In a thread about the NHL and the future the World Cup tournament, I wasn't really interested in the Czech poster's views on the Worlds, or Vorky's views on the KHL, or Yak's views on Soviet hockey
I've no interest in taking the bait and arguing about the IIHF (or the KHL, or Soviet hockey); IMO none of these issues are relevant in this thread

 

[Theokritos]

Actually he wrote " The World's just don't seem that important in North America. I seriously doubt many Americans even watch the World Championships" after I had said "North America's not asking for the Worlds to be held in NA because it has little to no interest in the Worlds (and never has)"

That's not true. He wrote that at 10:24, your sentence was posted at 10:35.

This was new information for him (I've known this since the 1970s)

So the two of you are actually in agreement on this, but you "dump on" him anyway, just because he didn't seem to be aware of it earlier on? Okay.

Why did you crop out the sentence right before that explains the context? It says "I just think it's funny that Euro fans loving dumping on the NHL for hosting these tournaments yet the NHL has shown less of a bias towards North America than the IIHF has towards Europe."

He was using it in regards to "Euro fans loving dumping on the NHL" (just like I said)

The point is that neither this sentence ("the NHL has shown less of a bias towards North America than the IIHF has towards Europe") nor the next (the one I've been quoting) is true. They are merely faulty arguments he uses to "dump on the IIHF", which is what I'm calling out.

In a thread about the NHL and the future the World Cup tournament, I wasn't really interested in the Czech poster's views on the Worlds, or Vorky's views on the KHL, or Yak's views on Soviet hockey
I've no interest in taking the bait and arguing about the IIHF (or the KHL, or Soviet hockey); IMO none of these issues are relevant in this thread

Then why do you keep getting involved by defending one of the driving forces in this argument and his faulty argument?

 

[Nino33]

The point is that neither this sentence ("the NHL has shown less of a bias towards North America than the IIHF has towards Europe") nor the next (the one I've been quoting) is true. They are merely faulty arguments he uses to "dump on the IIHF", which is what I'm calling out.

The threads about the NHL and a future World Cup, I'm not sure why you and some others are so interested in talking about the IIHF/Worlds, seems completely irrelevant to the thread topic to me as I've repeatedly said (along with the KHL/Soviet hockey discussion)

Then why do you keep getting involved by defending one of the driving forces in this argument and his faulty argument?

I got involved to correct a poster in regards to the Canada/World Cup (the thread topic) and to express my opinion on the topic, not discuss the IIHF/Worlds



And when Czechboy wanted to argue more about the IIHF/Worlds (actually saying I needed to prove things I never mentioned) I said

As I've said, I want a best-on-best tournament with a round-robin where everyone plays everyone once and then playoffs. I never mentioned where the games should be held because I don't really care!

You seem to be looking for an argument, and I've no interest in arguing your points with you; have a good evening

The last sentence applies to you too. I'm done here; have a nice day

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

How many of those Canada Cup/World Cup games involved Canada travelling to Europe to play on European soil? Is it less than zero? These teams, as I recall, were European teams playing against each other, and then having to travel half way around the World to Canada for the rest of the games, maybe so that the Canadian organizers could make a half-ass claim that the tournaments were somewhat fair. The fact that for 2 of the 5 Canada Cups the Soviets sent B teams suggests that they were only in those tournaments for the money, while keeping focus on the real championships (World and Olympic). The World Cups came after the Soviet Union ceased to exist, and the quality of Russian hockey plummeted.

Why should Canada travel anywhere for a tournament they are hosting? The World Cups were organized by Americans by the way. You may have noticed in the last one they even handicapped their own team by making it over 24yr olds only

 

[BOS358]

For the IIHF not to have held a single World Championship game in the USA in almost 60 years is utterly shameful

Hosts are selected five years in advance. Even if USA Hockey wanted to host it (which they don't), where would they? Find me two 10,000-seat arenas that are guaranteed not to have any major events throughout the entire month of May. Think hard. I'll be waiting for your answer.

 

[Czechboy]

You seem to be looking for an argument, and I've no interest in arguing your points with you; have a good evening

To be clear, you wrote this... I didn't write another word towards you and moved on. I wasn't even arguing with you. However, I was happy to move on as per your message.

You can imagine my shock when I login tonight to see you've mentioned me SIX times since telling me 'you're not interested in arguing with me'. You do realize I never said another word to you, right?

Which is it? You want to not argue or you want me to not say anything while you take cheapshots at me? Most your comments (all below) are, at best, condescending.

Can you find any comments I wrote to you that were insulting? Cause your comments below are just that. I'm happy to talk hockey anytime you want.

You must be really, really new to hockey. The Worlds have never been important in NA (I thought this was common knowledge among hockey fans).

But it's not something the Czech poster seemed to be aware of at all[/QUOTE]

I thought the poster was responding to the Czech poster who was trying to bring the Worlds into this discussion about the NHL and the World Cup (and present the Worlds as positive and the NHL/NA as negative)

I wasn't really interested in the Czech poster's views on the Worlds, or Vorky's views on the KHL, or Yak's views on Soviet hockey

And when Czechboy wanted to argue more about the IIHF/Worlds (actually saying I needed to prove things I never mentioned) I sai

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

We've been through this before. If you want to host a World Championship, you have to submit a bid. How many times have Canada and the USA done that? Canada two times, the USA zero times? That's on them, not the IIHF.

Is the IIHF eurocentric? Yes. Is it hostile to North America and preventing Canada and the USA from hosting World Championships? In this day and age, certainly not. Canada aked to host it in 2005 and they got it. To this day, the world is still waiting for another bid from North America.

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous argument. I'm glad you don't consider the IIHF to be hostile to the idea of holding the World Championships outside of Europe any more. If the IIHF had a grain of integrity they would have been bending over backwards for the last 50 years trying to figure out ways to attract interest to their "top" tournament outside of Europe. North America is by far the world's biggest hockey market, both in the number of fans and even more so in terms of $$$ and the IIHF has done absolutely nothing to encourage holding a men's tournament over here.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Hosts are selected five years in advance. Even if USA Hockey wanted to host it (which they don't), where would they? Find me two 10,000-seat arenas that are guaranteed not to have any major events throughout the entire month of May. Think hard. I'll be waiting for your answer.

Wow, I'm going to blow your mind here and suggest that the IIHF actually consider accommodating the world's biggest hockey market and not hold every World Championships during the NHL season or playoffs. If they move outside of the NHL season then surprise, surprise there are a plethora of places in NA that could be hosts. Now I'm not suggesting there is any point in trying now, that ship sailed long ago, you'd just think they would have tried something like that at least once in the last century.

 

[Nino33]

@Czechboy
And I never said another word to you.
Unfortunately in defending myself against Theokritos I found it impossible not to mention you


The thread topic is not about the IIHF/Worlds. I wasn't part of your IIHF/Worlds discussion, you and I were never discussing the IIHF/Worlds.

I didn't answer your question about the IIHF/Worlds when you tried to involve me in your argument, and I didn't answer your question about the IIHF/Worlds when you tried to claim I was required to answer.

Yes I definitely think you've been insulting/condescending in this thread, but I've no desire to go into further details about it

 

[Zine]

As it pertains to the WC, if I'm not mistaken, Hockey Canada agreed to forgo bidding on the WC until 2022 in exchange for preferential treatment for the WJC (Canada gets to host it every other year).

Basically it's a balancing act for the IIHF; attempting to generate as much money as possible within the confines of ensuring an even playing field for all bidders on IIHF events.

 

[Yakushev72]

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous argument. I'm glad you don't consider the IIHF to be hostile to the idea of holding the World Championships outside of Europe any more. If the IIHF had a grain of integrity they would have been bending over backwards for the last 50 years trying to figure out ways to attract interest to their "top" tournament outside of Europe. North America is by far the world's biggest hockey market, both in the number of fans and even more so in terms of $$$ and the IIHF has done absolutely nothing to encourage holding a men's tournament over here.

You have to look at the world around you and gauge what is going on, or you will always be lost and wondering. Theokritos pointed out that Canada and the United States never bid to hold the WC's in North America. Since the IIHF lacks the legal authority to force Canada to host the tournament whether they want to or not, you might start to look around and wonder if there might just be some reasons WHY Canada doesn't want to host the WC. Let me think.....just a minute......no, not that! Oh wait, maybe, let me think, maybe...………., maybe its because during the first 3 weeks of May, when the WC is held, you are also right in the middle of the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Stanley Cup playoffs are held in North America...I think I'm starting to get it. Hockey Canada has decided not to sabotage the NHL by competing with them for attention during the heart of the Stanley Cup Playoffs!!! Wow, that's brilliant...why didn't I think of that before?

Wait, unbelievable, I've got the perfect solution that gives a double-win to the Canadian fans. After the NHL season ends on April 10, suspend the Stanley Cup playoffs until July 15th. That gives plenty of time to enjoy the best hockey in the world during the WC's, and then, when Gold has been crowned, pick up the Stanley Cup in mid-July. God, I'm amazing the way I solved that. Somehow, I came up with the perfect solution!