Line Combos: Next Years Lines

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

It’s funny because last year Evans wasn’t that far off of Dvorak in production with less offensive zone opportunity and MUCH tougher opposition… and Evans actually DESTROYED Dvorak in driving possession last year. It’s not even close, it’s insane.

Not only that but if you check the level of toughness of opposition that Evans played against, it’s actually arguable that not many players in the LEAGUE, yes the complete NHL, would be able to drive possession like he did against that quality of opposition. Check the advanced stats. This is no BS.

There is also an argument to be made for Monahan. Yes it didn’t look so good last year for him but the Habs have said, after doing some serious DD, that Monahan should be better off because his hips are now fine.

I’ll give you Dach because I expect him to need another season or two. But in 3 or 4 years ( if Dach stays healthy) it won’t be a discussion either.

All this with the perspective that the Habs aren’t going to win the cup I the next 4+ years. Then all that is left is to draft well, dev the rookies and make your current asset more valuable in order to trade them ( specially when they have 1 year left on the contract).

Dadonov, Drouin, Monahan, etc. All need to play key mins so the Habs can get more out of them before the trade deadline. If some of them fail, it doesn’t matter. The ones that do crate something will enable Hughes something nice.

Winning a few extra games doesn’t mean anything as it now stands. That should not be the focus IMO. So maximizing assets is the way to go.

That’s some of the reasons I’d trade Dvorak ASAP. Makes room, gets assets, etc.

An article on TheAthletic has Monahan playing 4 times a week currently. Canadiens trade for Monahan strengthened infrastructure for growth

Sean Monahan was once a very good player. He scored 34 goals and had 82 points in 78 games in 2018-19. But he’s had surgery on both hips in the last two years, in addition to a wrist injury, which had made it so at 27 (he turns 28 in October), Monahan is at a crossroads.

“I’m on the ice four times a week right now,” Monahan said Thursday night. “It’s been a long time coming for me to feel healthy. I’m excited to play hockey again at a high level.”

Very encouraging. Outrageous steal of a trade if so. Naysayers will say that he has been making that claim every year these past few seasons, but it's also possible that the hip labrum surgeries plus physio have improved his mobility. I suspect that HuGo have been picking the brains of Jake Evans, who trains with him in the summertime. They could actually have more recent intel than Trelivig on his health.

 

[26Mats]

An article on TheAthletic has Monahan playing 4 times a week currently. Canadiens trade for Monahan strengthened infrastructure for growth

Sean Monahan was once a very good player. He scored 34 goals and had 82 points in 78 games in 2018-19. But he’s had surgery on both hips in the last two years, in addition to a wrist injury, which had made it so at 27 (he turns 28 in October), Monahan is at a crossroads.

“I’m on the ice four times a week right now,” Monahan said Thursday night. “It’s been a long time coming for me to feel healthy. I’m excited to play hockey again at a high level.”

Very encouraging. Outrageous steal of a trade if so. Naysayers will say that he has been making that claim every year these past few seasons, but it's also possible that the hip labrum surgeries plus physio have improved his mobility. I suspect that HuGo have been picking the brains of Jake Evans, who trains with him in the summertime. They could actually have more recent intel than Trelivig on his health.

What I'm not seeing is how simultaneously he's on the ice 4 times a week, yet unsure if he'll be healthy at the start of the season, and yet is saying he's healthy for the first time in years???

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

What I'm not seeing is how simultaneously he's on the ice 4 times a week, yet unsure if he'll be healthy at the start of the season, and yet is saying he's healthy for the first time in years???

He may not be playing full contact yet could still be skating 4 times a week, while being encouraged subjectively by the progress in the newly operated hip. Is that inconceivable? The article dates from Aug 19.

 

[Kriss E]

It’s funny because last year Evans wasn’t that far off of Dvorak in production with less offensive zone opportunity and MUCH tougher opposition… and Evans actually DESTROYED Dvorak in driving possession last year. It’s not even close, it’s insane.

Not only that but if you check the level of toughness of opposition that Evans played against, it’s actually arguable that not many players in the LEAGUE, yes the complete NHL, would be able to drive possession like he did against that quality of opposition. Check the advanced stats. This is no BS.

There is also an argument to be made for Monahan. Yes it didn’t look so good last year for him but the Habs have said, after doing some serious DD, that Monahan should be better off because his hips are now fine.

I’ll give you Dach because I expect him to need another season or two. But in 3 or 4 years ( if Dach stays healthy) it won’t be a discussion either.

All this with the perspective that the Habs aren’t going to win the cup I the next 4+ years. Then all that is left is to draft well, dev the rookies and make your current asset more valuable in order to trade them ( specially when they have 1 year left on the contract).

Dadonov, Drouin, Monahan, etc. All need to play key mins so the Habs can get more out of them before the trade deadline. If some of them fail, it doesn’t matter. The ones that do crate something will enable Hughes something nice.

Winning a few extra games doesn’t mean anything as it now stands. That should not be the focus IMO. So maximizing assets is the way to go.

That’s some of the reasons I’d trade Dvorak ASAP. Makes room, gets assets, etc.

I mean, Evans biggest season prior to last year was 3g 13pts in 47 gp. The kid had a total of 60 gp (+13po) of experience...so ya, not really surprised people put at the 4.5M 33pt/56gp center.

But I think next year we will have more options. Evans..Dvorak..Dach..Monahan...I don't think anyone is a lock at #2.
Same for the top 6 wings...Dadonov, Gallagher, Drouin, Hoffman..heck even Byron/Armia can get their shot.
Outside of Suzuki-CC...I don't think anybody has a locked position.

 

[Kennerback]

I am not 100% sure on this, but someone better versed in the CBA can confirm. With Junior-eligible players, the idea is you give a guy a 9 game tryout, if he is over his head the team can return him to Jr and the team retains all three years of the ELC, in effect sliding RFA/UFA deadlines by a year.

I am not certain if the same holds if the player goes to the AHL as that is still a professional contract, but if it does, it adds to the allure of leaving Slaf in Laval. In Montreal's current state:

a) you don't burn a year toward RFA/UFA when Slaf is 18 and probably still finding his way (see: KK making the NHL right away). Let him go do his thing in the AHL.
b) the team already has about 25 NHL forwards on the roster, and no, Dadanov/Drouin etc are not as crucial to the team's future, you might as well play those vets, then flip at the TDL for assets. If Slaf makes the NHL team he needs to get preferential treatment in terms of PP time, better linemates etc., why not let Slaf play 20 min+ a night in Laval and give the PP time to help boost the trade value of the various UFAs.

I think the slide rule is a valid argument to keep him in Laval if he barely makes the team. Better err on the side of caution. If Slaf needs to be sheltered to stay in the NHL, send him down. But maybe he doesn't need preferential treatment?

I don't know how much KK and Galchenyuk skating, lack of offensive instincts or stamina woes would have improved in the AHL. Nor do I know what they have to do with Slafkovsky. Maybe they were just bad picks? Conversely, how much better did Joe Mullen, Bryan Berard or Erik Johnson really get by playing that extra season outside the NHL?

 

[Scriptor]

Drouin showing up as a 4th liner or a scratch in some of the proposed lineups....glad to see that some of you get it.

Rather an asinine comment. Or was that an assassin comment? One of those...

 

[Scriptor]

He may not be playing full contact yet could still be skating 4 times a week, while being encouraged subjectively by the progress in the newly operated hip. Is that inconceivable? The article dates from Aug 19.

Keep in mind that Bruno Gervais, who also had surgery on both his hips, said that not takes the time it takes to heal, that feeling comfortable, while a good thing, isn't the only way to measure the progress.

LAST THING YOU'D WANT IS ONE CHECK T0 RE-INJURE MONAHAN.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Keep in mind that Bruno Gervais, who also had surgery on both his hips, said that not takes the time it takes to heal, that feeling comfortable, while a good thing, isn't the only way to measure the progress.

LAST THING YOU'D WANT IS ONE CHECK T0 RE-INJURE MONAHAN.

I'm with you, and I'm a believer in physiotherapy (surgery alone is almost never enough). I think that PTs can measure progress (and preparedness for contact) with quantitative metrics (involving specific exercises under supervision), based on my experience with shoulder and back injuries. I suspect that Monahan is working with some PTs, and that HuGo will see to that before penciling him in the lineup.

 

[26Mats]

He may not be playing full contact yet could still be skating 4 times a week, while being encouraged subjectively by the progress in the newly operated hip. Is that inconceivable? The article dates from Aug 19.

Until he's fully healthy I'd consider it pre mature to call him fully healthy. I don't like to count my chickens before they hatch.

As we know, this is a business and Monahan is going into the last year of his contract. I don't think his agent would instruct him to say publicly he's unhealthy either way. Neither is it in HuGo's interest to do so.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Well there isn't a bunch of alternatives...
Dvorak is a center, who can play on both ends of the ice so a mediocre offensive output gets slightly overlooked because he can play well in his zone/defensively. Drouin on the other hand, is average at best offensively, sucks defensively, and is a winger.

In any event, I'm pretty sure Drouin will get his change to play in the top 6.

When Dvorak came back from injury in March, he put up 17 pts in 22 GP under MSL. That was a 63-point pace.

I'm not expecting him to put up that kind of production. But like a number of players, he looked good playing under MSL. Hopefully can can carry that over to this year.

Add to that he's defensively responsible, is great on face-offs, can play both PK and PP, and you have a very useful center in Dvorak.

 

[Scriptor]

Hopefully, Dvorak impresses this year under St-Louis. I'm just concerned that, if all the players we would like to trade actually increase their trade value, it will mean that the Habs are actually winning more games than we would want them to win!

I just hope HuGo don't rush things before the new core is actually in place.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Hopefully, Dvorak impresses this year under St-Louis. I'm just concerned that, if all the players we would like to trade actually increase their trade value, it will mean that the Habs are actually winning more games than we would want them to win!

I just hope HuGo don't rush things before the new core is actually in place.

They wouldn't have done the Monahan deal if they were intent on rushing things.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Hopefully, Dvorak impresses this year under St-Louis. I'm just concerned that, if all the players we would like to trade actually increase their trade value, it will mean that the Habs are actually winning more games than we would want them to win!

I just hope HuGo don't rush things before the new core is actually in place.

They might pick up a few more wins. But it doesn't necessarily mean the Habs will suddenly be a Wild Card team. They can still have specific players having great seasons and the team is still bottom of the standings.

An example I'll give are the Sabres in 2018-19:
- Eichel had 82 pts (28 goals) in 77 GP
- Reinhart had 65 pts (22 goals) in 82 GP
- Skinner had 63 pts (40 goals) in 82 GP
- Dahlin had 44 pts in 82 GP
- Ristolainen had 43 pts in 78 GP

With all these players having successful seasons, Sabres still finished bottom-5 in the league that year (ended up with the 7th OA pick and taking Cozens).

Sticking with the Sabres the year after in 2019-20 (season cut short due to COVID):
- Eichel with 78 pts (36 goals) in 68 GP
- Reinhart with 50 pts (22 goals) in 69 GP
- Olofsson with 42 pts (20 goals) in 54 GP
- Dahlin with 40 pts in 59 GP

Again, a group of players with productive seasons, Sabres finished bottom-7 in the league that year (ended up with the 8th OA pick and taking Quinn).


So we don't need to worry about having players with productive seasons. It won't automatically mean the team will suddenly become competitive and finish outside the Bottom-5 or Bottom-10. In fact, if certain players do play well and increase their value, that means they will most likely be traded for a good return and once they're moved, the team will be less good.

 

[Mister Hab]

They might pick up a few more wins. But it doesn't necessarily mean the Habs will suddenly be a Wild Card team. They can still have specific players having great seasons and the team is still bottom of the standings.

An example I'll give are the Sabres in 2018-19:
- Eichel had 82 pts (28 goals) in 77 GP
- Reinhart had 65 pts (22 goals) in 82 GP
- Skinner had 63 pts (40 goals) in 82 GP
- Dahlin had 44 pts in 82 GP
- Ristolainen had 43 pts in 78 GP

With all these players having successful seasons, Sabres still finished bottom-5 in the league that year (ended up with the 7th OA pick and taking Cozens).

Sticking with the Sabres the year after in 2019-20 (season cut short due to COVID):
- Eichel with 78 pts (36 goals) in 68 GP
- Reinhart with 50 pts (22 goals) in 69 GP
- Olofsson with 42 pts (20 goals) in 54 GP
- Dahlin with 40 pts in 59 GP

Again, a group of players with productive seasons, Sabres finished bottom-7 in the league that year (ended up with the 8th OA pick and taking Quinn).


So we don't need to worry about having players with productive seasons. It won't automatically mean the team will suddenly become competitive and finish outside the Bottom-5 or Bottom-10. In fact, if certain players do play well and increase their value, that means they will most likely be traded for a good return and once they're moved, the team will be less good.

That's what I'm hoping for (everything you wrote!).

It's a catch-22...we need some/many to boost their value for a trade (so we can get more 1st, 2nd, 3rd rnd picks!), but...we also don't need them to win too too much...since we're still trying to collect as many picks as possible! (in a nutshell: we need a top 3 pick...or top 5...I don't want us to fall to a 12th overall or 15th overall pick due to winning 3-4 in a row here and there!!).

Let's not forget...a few more wins can make a huge difference!!
We can go from a top 3 pick to 6th or 8th or 12th, etc.
I really want a top 3 pick for 2023!! (center prospect with legit star potential...there are maybe 3-4-5 of them in the 2023 DRAFT...maybe more!?).

 

[Goal Caufield50]

Without further trades, the pre-TDL 2023 roster should be focused on finding a equilibrium between developing the young core and optimizing the trade value of expiring UFA to prepare a crucial 2023 offseason :

Caufield - Suzuki - Dadonov*
Drouin* / Hoffman - Dach (2.5M) - Anderson
Armia - Dvorak - Gallagher
Pitlick - Monahan* - Evans

Edmundson - Savard
Matheson - Barron
Harris - Wideman

Allen*
Montembault

Whereas the post-TDL 2023 can be mainly focus on the young core :

Slafkovski* - Suzuki - Caufield
Farrell* - Dach - Anderson
Pitlick / Hoffman - Dvorak - Gallagher
Ylonen* / RHP* - Evans - Armia

Matheson - Edmundson
Harris - Savard
Guhle* - Barron

Montembault
TDL Cap dump (or Waiver) Goalie / Primeau*

TDL 2023 Assets : Hopefully, they collectively return 4 « top-96 » assets ; 2nd/3rd round picks, future or past. The Habs also have three 4th rounders next draft for slight compensations to push for 2nd rounders in their UFA firesale.

* Allen [1.4/2.8M] (50% retained) :

Allen’s trade value at the deadline will be correlated to the contenders/pretenders’ goalie depth situation. Inevitably, one or more will be needing a good backup goalie to prepare their Cup run and at 1.4M, Allen will be a prime candidate to generate interesting offers. Most likely doesn’t fetch a 2023 1st, but he’s probably the best bet for a late 2nd at the next TDL.

* Dadonov [2.5/5M] and/or Drouin [2.75/5.5M] (50% salary retention) :

Middle-6 offensive wingers usually don’t fetch « much » at the TDL, but a late (or former) 2nd or 3rd round picks are not beyond reach if one or both have a good season. More likely in Dadonov’s case, if only considering Drouin’s lingering health issues. The Habs can only retain on 3 contract anyways, so Allen-Monahan-Dadonov seems more likely. Unless the contender needing Allen doesn’t need retention to fit him under the cap.

* Monahan [3.2/6.4M] (50% salary retention) :

He might not be the player he once was, but a veteran C with 53% FO last year on an expiring deal could definitely become a interesting TDL acquisition for a contender. A late 2nd or 3rd round pick is not beyond reach, especially if the Habs can take back an expiring UFA contract along with retaining to facilitate the 3.2M move in a flat cap year.

Byron and drouin are also in the mix for retention. Problem is you can only retain on three players

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Byron and drouin are also in the mix for retention. Problem is you can only retain on three players

 

[Goal Caufield50]

View attachment 578902View attachment 578903

The least interesting post in the world

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

The least interesting post in the world

We'll see. This forum can always stand a bit of levity.

 

[Kaiden Ghoul]

Dadonov Suzuki Caufield
Drouin Dvorak Gallagher
Monahan Dach Anderson
Armia Evans Hoffman

Edmunson Wideman
Matheson Bowey/Barron/Harris
Harris/Bowey/Barron Savard

Allen
Monty

 

[Hins77]

1.. Caufield / Suzuki / Anderson
It does work well last year. At least, I would try it at the beginning

2. Drouin / Dvorak / Gallagher
Kind of line you gonna put against best line

3. Slafkovsky / Dach / Dadonov.
A veterant with 2 youngs players

4. Hoffman / Monahan (evans) / Armia
Extra : pitlick / pezzetta

1. Matheson / Edmundson
You need experience against top line

2. Harris / Savard


3. Guhle / Barron
I expect Guhle starting in Montreal, cause he is gonna be the 3rd best dman already..he had played with Barron too

Extra : Wideman

 

[smirob]

1.. Caufield / Suzuki / Anderson
It does work well last year. At least, I would try it at the beginning

2. Drouin / Dvorak / Gallagher
Kind of line you gonna put against best line

3. Slafkovsky / Dach / Dadonov.
A veterant with 2 youngs players

4. Hoffman / Monahan (evans) / Armia
Extra : pitlick / pezzetta

1. Matheson / Edmundson
You need experience against top line

2. Harris / Savard


3. Guhle / Barron
I expect Guhle starting in Montreal, cause he is gonna be the 3rd best dman already..he had played with Barron too

Extra : Wideman

My only change would be to switch Dadonov and Anderson.

We need to prop up Dadonov's value as much as possible.

 

[Zilo44]

Would you guys sign Chara ?

 

[George Lebay]

Would you guys sign Chara ?

 

[ericd]

Dadonov - Suzuki - Anderson
Caufield - Dach - Evans
Hoffman - Monahan - Gallagher
Slafkovský - Dvorak - Drouin
Pitlick - Armia

Matheson - Subban*
Edmundson - Savard
Guhle - Wideman

Allen - Montembeault

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Dadonov - Suzuki - Anderson
Caufield - Dach - Evans
Hoffman - Monahan - Gallagher
Slafkovský - Dvorak - Drouin
Pitlick - Armia

Matheson - Subban*
Edmundson - Savard
Guhle - Wideman

Allen - Montembeault

He's probably not a top pairing D, but he could be the kryptonite to Gallagher's no-trade clause.