Next CBA - potentially shortened draft

[eojsmada]

Moving to 4 rounds would also increase the value of draft picks via trades.

 

[sxvnert]

All for it. Rounds 5,6,7 are pointless and most players are better off taking a different path.

 

[Caspian]

lol, poster is not misremembering
It was the Kenny Linesman rule.

Maybe read up on the rules for the draft, Matthew’s missed the date by 2 days.

Auston Matthews was 18 years old in calendar 2015 (1 year before he was draft eligible per the NHL ruleset). Using your golden logic he should have been allowed to sign and play.

There was no legal decision that bound the NHL to lowering their draft age. the NHL reduced the draft age from 20 to 18 to counter the WHA lowering their draft age. Some kid named Wayne Gretzky was drafted as an 18 yr old to the WHA before he was eligible for the NHL draft.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/will-nhl-raise-the-draft-age-to-19

Would love to see link supporting your memories that contradict the article above


On top of that the NBA successfully raised their draft age to 19 and it passed in the courts (wasn't stopped for anti-trust). That's quite literally the precedent (at least for US law).

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

so how come my favourite NHL team couldn't sign Auston Matthews when he was 18 years old playing in the Swiss league???

Or Taylor Hall? Or John Tavares?

link something concrete, cause it sounds like you're misremembering.

Every few years the NHL brings the draft age change into conversation. The league wouldn't discuss it if it were not possible. Its the NHLPA that pushes back because obviously the union don't want future members denied the opportunity to play in the NHL sooner.

Because they weren't 18 by the start of training camps and the date of September 15

The cutoff wasn't a random date, you have to be a legal adult by September 15.
And ken linseman did take the league to court and won (the case was dropped but he was able to sign with the whl and stopped fighting it)

Now with no WHA, all it would take was a few 18 year olds signing contracts and challenging the hypothetical new rule, which would be a big mess


It's going to stay 18

 

[Caspian]

Because they weren't 18 by the start of training camps and the date of September 15

The cutoff wasn't a random date, you have to be a legal adult by September 15.
And ken linseman did take the league to court and won

sign him after training camp when he's 18. why does he have to attend training camp to be draft eligible? he's legally an adult

link me to an article saying Ken Linseman won his court case and the NHL is legally bound to allow 18 year olds to play.

Article below says no such thing

https://thehockeynews.com/news/will-nhl-raise-the-draft-age-to-19

 

[StreetHawk]

Per 32 thoughts Friedman brings up how he's heard agents and maybe NHLPA that they may want to shorten the draft to 4 rounds, as most players that aren't signed aren't high picks.

Sounds like if you're not drafted you're automatically a free agent and can sign with your team of choice.

Why tie up a player's rights for 2-4 years just for them to go unsigned anyways. That seems like part of the reason to shorten the draft.

we need to see the data of the number of players who sign NHL contracts who were drafted in round 5 onwards.

It may make sense for them to become UFA if they go undrafted by age 20.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

sign him after training camp when he's 18. why does he have to attend training camp to be draft eligible? he's legally an adult

link me to an article saying Ken Linseman won his court case and the NHL is legally bound to allow 18 year olds to play.

Article below says no such thing

https://thehockeynews.com/news/will-nhl-raise-the-draft-age-to-19

Sorry, it was ruled the draft age violated the law and the lawsuit was withdrawn after he signed in thr WHA.

Maybe the league isn't obligated by law, but they would risk being challenged if they changed it , and the precedent set was that the player was correct. It would be a big mess if some 18 year old phenom just outright signed with someone and the league had to go to court to settle it. They don't want it, players certainly don't want it. So the owners and the PA don't want it, it won't happen


https://www.proquest.com/docview/387030843#?sourcetype=Newspapers

 

[jigglysquishy]

sign him after training camp when he's 18. why does he have to attend training camp to be draft eligible? he's legally an adult

link me to an article saying Ken Linseman won his court case and the NHL is legally bound to allow 18 year olds to play.

Article below says no such thing

https://thehockeynews.com/news/will-nhl-raise-the-draft-age-to-19

https://casetext.com/case/linseman-v-commr-of-internal-revenue

"In Linseman v. World Hockey Association, 439 F.Supp. 1315 (D. Conn. 1977), the “20-year old rule” was held invalid under the Sherman Antitrust Act. As a result, petitioner played hockey for the Bulls during the 1977–1978 season. "

It's likely it gets challenged again at some point. Especially with how weakened anti-trust laws are in the States.

 

[Djp]

Per 32 thoughts Friedman brings up how he's heard agents and maybe NHLPA that they may want to shorten the draft to 4 rounds, as most players that aren't signed aren't high picks.

Sounds like if you're not drafted you're automatically a free agent and can sign with your team of choice.

Why tie up a player's rights for 2-4 years just for them to go unsigned anyways. That seems like part of the reason to shorten the draft.

Not seeing it drop to 4.
It might drop tu o 5 or 6 post next expsnsion.

There also needs other changes like

1. Raise draft age to 19 but no exclusive CHL rights

The draft before th this change they excled rounds 1-3 from the record thus any trades push to future years

2. Draft age is adjusted to also be able to draft college players who are 21 yrs olf. Baseball draft is 18/ grad high school or if they go to college its after 3 yrs from b eff ing 18 yr old eligible.

3. NCAA bound players can be signed on sliding contracts or they exclude NCAA bound players from being drafted at 19. Only entry us after 2-3 yrs post Hzs/18 or if they declare stating their ncaa is done.

4 CHL/ U20 euro players can go to ncaa.

 

[kaiser matias]

The NFL had a court challenge from Maurice Clarett, which clarified that as it was collectively bargained they could have the requirement in place for the draft. Granted the NFL's wording was 3 years out of high school (much like the NBA), and not specifically an age (far as I know), so if the NHL implemented something similar it would likely hold up.

That said I would hope they don't, and keep it open for 18-year-olds. Forces teams to put effort into properly scouting and developing players, and does allow the odd cases of exceptional players (Crosby, McDavid, Bedard, etc) to join the NHL at 18.

 

[4thline]

I would encourage anyone citing Linseman to read the linked Hockey News article. If the PA concedes it as part of the collective agreement, it will stand. There's all kinds of shit in the CBA that wouldnt stand up in court if it wasnt collectively bargained.

 

[CanadienShark]

This is... An idea. I'm not sure I like it. Lot of implications that I'm not sure are positive or needed.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Auston Matthews was 18 years old in calendar 2015 (1 year before he was draft eligible per the NHL ruleset). Using your golden logic he should have been allowed to sign and play.

What lol, reading comprehension.
I said,
Matthew’s missed the date by 2 days.

How does that mean he should of been allowed to play.

Same as OV and Brady Tkachuk, all born after the 15th of September .
If you want the NHL rules to change, then just say so.


all players turning 18 years old on or before September 15 and younger than 20 years old before December 31 of the draft year are eligible.

And yes it was a court decision, on Kenny Linesman that allowed him to play in the WHA, Gretzky came after the ruling.
NHL then followed suit to not lose players to the WHA.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I would encourage anyone citing Linseman to read the linked Hockey News article. If the PA concedes it as part of the collective agreement, it will stand.

Why would the PA concede it? It takes money away from players.

The benefit to the NHL is minimal and the risk to the pay is high.

 

[4thline]

Why would the PA concede it? It takes money away from players..

Goalposts moved awfully quickly from "wont happen its illegal" to "I dont see why it would happen" eh.

Why? Because its a potential negotiating chip that has a major impact on a tiny tiny proportion of the union, and the follow on effects of lining up ages could actually benefit some members.

It should remove any rationale for the late birthday slide rule that squeezes a 4th pro season from certain players elc's. It could come with moving certain (UFA) eligibilty threshholds from June to January.

 

[UED]

what? now how am I supposed to fleece other teams now that I can't make up for the massive difference in trade value by adding a 6th to my offers?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

NHL should counter that they would then require 5-year ELC's to protect the limited youth assets clubs would be left with from such a shortened draft

 

[Muffin]

Not react. Whst %of 5th, 6th and 7th rounders ever make the nhl?

It gives more control to the players. Notice how teams have to give up more to sign college free agents? They offer to burn a year off contracts and things like that.

 

[Ace]

Oh good it had been a while since an idea was proposed that actively benefited teams that already have all the benefits.

As a fan of small market team in an undesirable location with high taxes….i was getting worried an off-season would pass without inflicting more damage

That’s without even getting into how it ruins the trade market. Those late picks for rentals and cap help? Those will Be over. Less trades! What everyone wants!

 

[Golden_Jet]

It’s an agent/player thing.
Would need to be collectively bargained.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Goalposts moved awfully quickly from "wont happen its illegal" to "I dont see why it would happen" eh.

Why? Because its a potential negotiating chip that has a major impact on a tiny tiny proportion of the union, and the follow on effects of lining up ages could actually benefit some members.

It should remove any rationale for the late birthday slide rule that squeezes a 4th pro season from certain players elc's. It could come with moving certain (UFA) eligibilty threshholds from June to January.

It is illegal. The Linseman case made it clear.

You're correct that a CBA can allow for extralegal items if it's negotiated. You see it all the time in healthcare.

 

[Kingfan1967]

2023 draft
5th round 8 traded picks (1/4)
6th round 7 traded picks (nearly 1/4)
7th round 11 traded picks (over 1/3)

Thats a lot of picks traded, mostly to even up trade values.
Eliminating later rounds will actually make trades harder to make.

 

[Kevinsane]

Under this change evaluation of goalies becomes more challenging. Do you spend a third or fourth round pick on an 18 year old, and wait six or seven years, or hope you unearth a free agent nobody else has a lead on?

 

[4thline]

It is illegal. The Linseman case made it clear.

You're correct that a CBA can allow for extralegal items if it's negotiated. You see it all the time in healthcare.

"It's illegal but it would withstand legal challenge"

 

[jigglysquishy]

"It's illegal but it would withstand legal challenge"

I don't think you understand what a CBA is.

It was already declared illegal by a US Court.