News & Notes XLIV: Revenge of the Seth

[hblueridgegal]

3 years! Gotta wear shades..

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Best decision was allowing Brindamour to coach, despite his lack of experience.

Worst decision? Letting Forslund walk. Raising parking prices to absurd levels. Possibly interfering with the negotiation process many, many times over.

Has that potential interference really been an issue anywhere outside of Guentzel and Rod? Obviously the Rod one would have been a catastrophic mistake and worthy of it's own "worse decision" title but what other negotiations has he potentially step on?

 

[cptjeff]

Would if I could. That's a damn good question.

I can only guess that it would make a lot of sense that the real pay probably isn't allow to differ from how it is for the salary cap purposes, so that if you're in AHL for a day for the salary cap, you also wouldn't get NHL salary for that day either. BUT. The salary cap get gamed that way and it would get gamed even if the players took the hit for it, so I'm just as prepared to believe that NHLPA would have gotten some silent concession that the player gets paid the NHL salary anyway if the transfer is merely a paper transfer.

I *think* it's kind of telling that you never hear a player whine about getting stolen some salary by team's shenanigans.

I would be shocked if that happens- the NHL has got to have some mechanism to audit teams books for cap compliance, and that's 100% a violation of the CBA.

I think players don't whine because they're young players happy to be in the NHL and not looking to make waves or piss of their teams. Plus, the money is already an ungodly large amount to them.

But I would like to see the next CBA go by game rather than by day to stop these shenanigans.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Has that potential interference really been an issue anywhere outside of Guentzel and Rod? Obviously the Rod one would have been a catastrophic mistake and worthy of it's own "worse decision" title but what other negotiations has he potentially step on?

Confirmed or rumored? Because even guys that have signed with us, their agents have talked about Dundon's negotiation process. He's involved. To what degree is anyone's guess.

But I mostly included it because of the potential loss of RBA.

 

[Lucky Lindy]

Best decision was allowing Brindamour to coach, despite his lack of experience.

Worst decision? Letting Forslund walk. Raising parking prices to absurd levels. Possibly interfering with the negotiation process many, many times over.

Same answer here, with Rod and Forslund.

 

[DaveG]

Has that potential interference really been an issue anywhere outside of Guentzel and Rod? Obviously the Rod one would have been a catastrophic mistake and worthy of it's own "worse decision" title but what other negotiations has he potentially step on?

Hamilton and arguably Pesce as well. I can't speak to any of the big ticket UFAs other than Guentzel because typically they've been of an age where we haven't and wouldn't be in on them (ie: Stamkos), most of the guys that we've gone after have been via trade a year or two before they would have been set to go to UFA outside of Eichel.

 

[Derailed75]

Hamilton and arguably Pesce as well. I can't speak to any of the big ticket UFAs other than Guentzel because typically they've been of an age where we haven't and wouldn't be in on them (ie: Stamkos), most of the guys that we've gone after have been via trade a year or two before they would have been set to go to UFA outside of Eichel.

I dont remember hearing anything about him being in on the Dougie or Pesce negotiations. I think both of them are cases of wanting more money than the collective thought they would be worth, not so much TD stepping in. Personally I think they nailed both.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Hamilton and arguably Pesce as well. I can't speak to any of the big ticket UFAs other than Guentzel because typically they've been of an age where we haven't and wouldn't be in on them (ie: Stamkos), most of the guys that we've gone after have been via trade a year or two before they would have been set to go to UFA outside of Eichel.

If Dundon was the reason the Borg didn't offer Hamilton 9 million a year I'm going to say that was a good decision on his part. Pesce we'll see how he holds up.

Having an owner that involved isn't by default a bad thing (yes the track record is not great in sports).

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sounding like Boston is replacing Jim Montgomery with Joe Sacco.

 

[DaveG]

If Dundon was the reason the Borg didn't offer Hamilton 9 million a year I'm going to say that was a good decision on his part. Pesce we'll see how he holds up.

Having an owner that involved isn't by default a bad thing (yes the track record is not great in sports).

Oh believe me I'm not commenting on whether it's a good thing or not that playing hardball on negotiations had the impact it did. I actually think missing on extending Dougie wasn't a bad thing at all as we were able to add Burns cheap for the same offensive impact and slightly better defense at a lower price tag. I'm just saying that it is a factor in the "why" on those players no longer being here.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If they continue to win, I don't care if Dundon "interferes" with negotiations. We like to pat ourselves on the back for not being in cap hell, not having boat anchor contracts, or not being too top heavy, but at the same time get upset when the guy in charge doesn't do it the way we want him to.

As far as parking goes. It's $27 with Parkwhiz. Anyone complaining about $45 parking has only theirselves to blame. Plus, there are still other options to park for less if people want to walk.

And doesn't NC state charge anywhere from $20-$60 for parking for football games? Just because we got used to ridiculously low prices when the Canes sucked for 10 years doesn't mean the Canes are out of line now IMO.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

If they continue to win, I don't care if Dundon "interferes" with negotiations. We like to pat ourselves on the back for not being in cap hell, not having boat anchor contracts, or not being too top heavy, but at the same time get upset when the guy in charge doesn't do it the way we want him to.

As far as parking goes. It's $27 with Parkwhiz. Anyone complaining about $45 parking has only theirselves to blame. Plus, there are still other options to park for less if people want to walk.

And doesn't NC state charge anywhere from $20-$60 for parking for football games? Just because we got used to ridiculously low prices when the Canes sucked for 10 years doesn't mean the Canes are out of line now IMO.

Rather than criticize others for what they put for a question that specifically asked for the possible negatives of Dundon, why don't you list what you would have/did put down?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Rather than criticize others for what they put for a question that specifically asked for the possible negatives of Dundon, why don't you list what you would have/did put down?

Huh? This is a discussion board, right? So if we have a different opinion, we share it. God knows people have disagreed with me a bunch over the years. No need to be so sensitive.

As far as positives;
1) Signing Brind'amour
2) Signing Waddell
3) Keeping Tulsky from leaving
4) Changing the culture (not just on the ice).
5) Spending to the cap and investing in the team, arena and future
6) Putting a winning team on the ice year after year.

Negatives:
1) Not addressing the goaltending situation.
2) Not pulling off a trade / acquisition of a top tier player despite reportedly trying over and over again.
3) The KK offer sheet and signing.

Uncertain: While I'm not worried about it, I have little doubt that he's cutthroat enough that if it made sense to move the team, he would.

 

[Svechhammer]

Huh? This is a discussion board, right? So if we have a different opinion, we share it. God knows people have disagreed with me a bunch over the years. No need to be so sensitive.

As far as positives;
1) Signing Brind'amour
2) Signing Waddell
3) Keeping Tulsky from leaving
4) Changing the culture (not just on the ice).
5) Spending to the cap and investing in the team, arena and future
6) Putting a winning team on the ice year after year.

Negatives:
1) Not addressing the goaltending situation.
2) Not pulling off a trade / acquisition of a top tier player despite reportedly trying over and over again.
3) The KK offer sheet and signing.

Uncertain: While I'm not worried about it, I have little doubt that he's cutthroat enough that if it made sense to move the team, he would.

Hmmm

Realistically, how many of those things really truly fall on Dundon? I mean signing Brindy, Waddell, Tulsky, ok I can see those since he was heavily involved. Changing the culture, sure maybe, but that might have just as easily been that Karmanos wasn't around than anything TD did. Spending to the cap, investing in the team and arena? Yup 100%. Putting a winning team on the ice? I'd say that's more with the GM, like like I would say all the negatives are.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

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The front office rankings are just mind-boggling to me. Utah, Vancouver, Montreal, NJ all being ahead of us? We've made the playoffs 6 straight years and won at least 1 series every year without ever relying on tanking to get elite highly drafted players -- Svech being our only top pick and that was lottery luck 6 years ago. Yet people have more confidence in the front offices of these teams who barely sniff the playoffs even with a significant number of high picks.

I understand the timing was with all of our off-season losses, but still just mind boggling considering how young our core is, how great our salary cap situation is with core players signed long term to good to great contracts and our prospect pipeline being incredible for such a regular contender always picking late in the draft. Not to mention the consistent proven ability to find players overlooked elsewhere who come in and have incredible success here. Not just the guys this offseason so far either, it's been happening for years and years.

But fortunately these rankings are completely irrelevant to anything of meaning lol. It's just amazing how clueless the "public" and even many of our own fanbase are/can be.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Hmmm

Realistically, how many of those things really truly fall on Dundon? I mean signing Brindy, Waddell, Tulsky, ok I can see those since he was heavily involved.

Yep.

Changing the culture, sure maybe, but that might have just as easily been that Karmanos wasn't around than anything TD did.

That was part of it, but he was aggressive and unorthodox. Immediately changing where the Canes entered the rink. Filling the lower bowl when they stunk early on. Getting a much more engaging social media team. Embracing the "we do things differently" mantra. I think he played a big role in that.

Spending to the cap, investing in the team and arena? Yup 100%.

agree

Putting a winning team on the ice? I'd say that's more with the GM, like like I would say all the negatives are.

The way I see it, is if some are arguing he's too heavily involved in negotiations (as a negative), and we believe all the reports of him being heavily involved in negotiations, and that he's regularly calling the NHL, and that we have a "BORG" where it's a collaborative decision making process, he gets some of the credit and some of the blame IMO.

Edit: it was his statement very early on that you only pay top dollar for your absolute core players and his statement of "We don't want to give players their 2nd big contract, only their first" (Paraphrasing when he was talking about giving guys in their late 20s/early 30s a big contract). The way the Canes operate echos the tone he set, for good or for bad.

 

[WreckingCrew]

The front office rankings are just mind-boggling to me. Utah, Vancouver, Montreal, NJ all being ahead of us? We've made the playoffs 6 straight years and won at least 1 series every year without ever relying on tanking to get elite highly drafted players -- Svech being our only top pick and that was lottery luck 6 years ago. Yet people have more confidence in the front offices of these teams who barely sniff the playoffs even with a significant number of high picks.

I understand the timing was with all of our off-season losses, but still just mind boggling considering how young our core is, how great our salary cap situation is with core players signed long term to good to great contracts and our prospect pipeline being incredible for such a regular contender always picking late in the draft. Not to mention the consistent proven ability to find players overlooked elsewhere who come in and have incredible success here. Not just the guys this offseason so far either, it's been happening for years and years.

But fortunately these rankings are completely irrelevant to anything of meaning lol. It's just amazing how clueless the "public" and even many of our own fanbase are/can be.

Yea but we didn't draft Hughes, Hughes, Hughes, Hischier, EP, Caulfield, Slaf, Nemec, Cooley, or Guenther so we suck! But yea really we did way more with way less, which is unfortunately not looked at as highly as doing way less with more (i.e. being a big UFA destination, getting multiple top 5 picks, etc)...those franchises get heaped with praise because they failed their way into elite players or were places players wanted to sign

 

[chaz4hockey]

Huh? This is a discussion board, right? So if we have a different opinion, we share it. God knows people have disagreed with me a bunch over the years. No need to be so sensitive.

As far as positives;
1) Signing Brind'amour
2) Signing Waddell
3) Keeping Tulsky from leaving
4) Changing the culture (not just on the ice).
5) Spending to the cap and investing in the team, arena and future
6) Putting a winning team on the ice year after year.

Negatives:
1) Not addressing the goaltending situation.
2) Not pulling off a trade / acquisition of a top tier player despite reportedly trying over and over again.
3) The KK offer sheet and signing.

Uncertain: While I'm not worried about it, I have little doubt that he's cutthroat enough that if it made sense to move the team, he would.

All good points.

With KK’s play this year and rapid escalation of the cap next couple of years, I’m thinking right now that his contract is no longer a negative ( subject to the whims of a fan that can change his opinion )