News & Notes XLIV: Revenge of the Seth

[bleedgreen]

There’s always a possibility a player actually is better right at the end of the season. It’s going to be awful tough to prove that someone is ready and didn’t play. It comes down to Dr’s clearance and after three procedures over a year+ and trying to get cleared to go back to work after all three with different doctors I can say every dr is different. It often can be a factor of what the physical therapist says even more than the doc. Often the doc will rely on what the PT says about where you’re at. I’d suspect hockey is pretty similar. The Doc knows when the injury is healed enough for you to get after it training wise, but the PT knows your strength and conditioning as you’re building it. They all put it together to try to guess when you’re ready, which is often truly a guess in the end. I’m sure they thought Patches was ready.

Basically impossible to regulate or prove anything unless you find a chart that says that the player could play now but the team chose not to. Good luck.

 

[cptjeff]

There’s always a possibility a player actually is better right at the end of the season. It’s going to be awful tough to prove that someone is ready and didn’t play. It comes down to Dr’s clearance and after three procedures over a year+ and trying to get cleared to go back to work after all three with different doctors I can say every dr is different. It often can be a factor of what the physical therapist says even more than the doc. Often the doc will rely on what the PT says about where you’re at. I’d suspect hockey is pretty similar. The Doc knows when the injury is healed enough for you to get after it, but the PT knows your strength and conditioning as you’re building it. They all put it together to try to guess when you’re ready, which is often truly a guess in the end. I’m sure they thought Patches was ready.

Basically impossible to regulate or prove anything unless you find a chart that says that the player could play now but the team avoids it. Good luck.

There's a chance, but it's an infinitesimally small chance. And if that happens, they can still play in the playoffs! Just not in the 1st round. Where players who can play being held out of games has happened multiple times and VERY obviously.

And sure, it's impossible to regulate well, so you change the incentives. And if you do show that a player is healthy enough, you come down like a ton of bricks and crush them so severely no other team is willing to try it ever again.

Or, just get rid of this accrual mess entirely and make the cap less soft.

We have a system that has been abused, and abused blatantly. Sure, there might be minor issues in exceedingly rare edge cases with whatever you do to stop the abuse, but we have a major problem staring us in the face right now that demands a fix.

 

[bleedgreen]

There's a chance, but it's an infinitesimally small chance. And if that happens, they can still play in the playoffs! Just not in the 1st round. Where players who can play being held out of games has happened multiple times and VERY obviously.

And sure, it's impossible to regulate well, so you change the incentives. And if you do show that a player is healthy enough, you come down like a ton of bricks and crush them so severely no other team is willing to try it ever again.

Or, just get rid of this accrual mess entirely and make the cap less soft.

I think the answer probably lies in your last sentence there. Change the cap rules somewhere else. Trying to prove that a guy who busts his ass to get back in time for the playoffs could’ve come back a week earlier and penalizing the team by making a guy they need sit for a round - with all that revenue that’s dependent on playoff length at risk? That’ll go over about as well as a wet fart in church.

 

[SlavinAway]

I think the answer probably lies in your last sentence there. Change the cap rules somewhere else. Trying to prove that a guy who busts his ass to get back in time for the playoffs could’ve come back a week earlier and penalizing the team by making a guy they need sit for a round - with all that revenue that’s dependent on playoff length at risk? That’ll go over about as well as a wet fart in church.

The team chose to effectively replace that player on LTIR though if they don't have the space to reactivate them before game 82. I'm not saying they have to play them in a regular season game but if you're not reactivated you're not eligible for a certain number of playoff games.

The purpose of LTIR isn't to give a team a possible advantage, it's to not put them at as much of a disadvantage if a player goes down.

 

[bleedgreen]

The team chose to effectively replace that player on LTIR though if they don't have the space to reactivate them before game 82. I'm not saying they have to play them in a regular season game but if you're not reactivated you're not eligible for a certain number of playoff games.

The purpose of LTIR isn't to give a team a possible advantage, it's to not put them at as much of a disadvantage if a player goes down.

I agree with all of you that it’s an oddity that seems unfair, but I think every team that has injuries has the ability to do the same thing. I just don’t see them forcing a player to sit. I don’t see the league going for it and I don’t see the PA agreeing to it. I’m not saying it’s the wrong plan, just saying I don’t think the powers would agree to it.

 

[SlavinAway]

I agree with all of you that it’s an oddity that seems unfair, but I think every team that has injuries has the ability to do the same thing. I just don’t see them forcing a player to sit. I don’t see the league going for it and I don’t see the PA agreeing to it. I’m not saying it’s the wrong plan, just saying I don’t think the powers would agree to it.

Oh yeah. I agree that it probably wouldn't ever be implemented.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The team chose to effectively replace that player on LTIR though if they don't have the space to reactivate them before game 82. I'm not saying they have to play them in a regular season game but if you're not reactivated you're not eligible for a certain number of playoff games.

This. If they project to be fit enough to play in the post season, the team should have to pay for at least X% of their salary in the regular season, whether they play or not. Pick your value for X: 50%, 25%, 10%, I don't care.

No one is asking an injured player to play injured, but this "free roster player until the playoffs" bullshit has to stop.

 

[WreckingCrew]

This. If they project to be fit enough to play in the post season, the team should have to pay for at least X% of their salary in the regular season, whether they play or not. Pick your value for X: 50%, 25%, 10%, I don't care.

No one is asking an injured player to play injured, but this "free roster player until the playoffs" bullshit has to stop.

Easy, TDL reserve list. Other than call-ups you have to be on TDL reserve list to be eligible for playoffs (nothing to do with IR), and that roster must be pro-rated cap-compliant for the remainder of the season.

 

[cptjeff]

Chatty back in town.

 

[Lempo]

Suomalaiskonkari paljastaa: NHL-ura ohi (in Fin)

Raanta seeks to continue his career in Europe, with Switzerland, Germany and Czech as the foremost targets. Doesn't have the fire to go play 60 games per season in AHL and fight for his existence as a tweener. His junior team Lukko has been wooing for him to return in Finland, but there are reasons against, not least the Finnish taxation which would hit hard on the monies he got from selling their crib in Carolina.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Suomalaiskonkari paljastaa: NHL-ura ohi (in Fin)

Raanta seeks to continue his career in Europe, with Switzerland, Germany and Czech as the foremost targets. Doesn't have the fire to go play 60 games per season in AHL and fight for his existence as a tweener. His junior team Lukko has been wooing for him to return in Finland, but there are reasons against, not least the Finnish taxation which would hit hard on the monies he got from selling their crib in Carolina.

Crib = home or Antii’s crib was made up of gold. It’s too bad he didn’t stay in the Triangle.

 

[chaz4hockey]

An article suggesting Canes fumbling wolves control and penny pinching. Also, Dunedin is alleged to have stated “The AHL is just practice games, they don't even matter”

Wolve generated hit piece or accurate; truth probably somewhere in the middle.

Tension Continues Between Carolina & AHL-Chicago Ownership Groups Over Team's Practice Facility

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Its the same guy who wrote the last hit piece on the canes. Highly unlikely it means much

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Lol

"The AHL is just practice games, they don't even matter," one source told InsideAHLHockey.com that Dundon reportedly said of the top minor league of the NHL, suggesting the organization's approach to how they will utilize their AHL affiliate housing its top prospects this season.

Riiiight. That's why Canes affiliated teams won 2 of the last 4 Calder Cups. Get the f*** out of here with that bullshit.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I heard from my uncle’s gynecologist that Dundon thinks 90% of the Wolves roster can be replaced by ChatGPT.

 

[Nikishin al Gaib]

There's a complete lack of accountability going on in what happened within the Chicago front offices. Had a Wolves superfan try to start some shit with me via DMs last year over how everything went. Watching the Canes take full control and basically force their entire management structure out the door this summer was amusing to see.

Quite frankly, winning games in the AHL shouldn't be the goal for the NHL club. Its a nice side benefit of having a very good prospect pool, but at the end of the day, the 2 way players are there to be prepared for either an immediate callup or if they are freshly drafted, to get used to the professional game in order to be ready to play NHL hockey in the next couple seasons. Does anyone give a shit that the Durham Bulls have won the IL a few times over the last couple decades? Not really, its a nice thing to have seen happen, but at the end of the day all that matters for the Rays organization is winning the World Series. Same applies in hockey. I don't care at all if Dundon actually said it. It might be blunt, but its true.

 

[Derailed75]

There's a complete lack of accountability going on in what happened within the Chicago front offices. Had a Wolves superfan try to start some shit with me via DMs last year over how everything went. Watching the Canes take full control and basically force their entire management structure out the door this summer was amusing to see.

Quite frankly, winning games in the AHL shouldn't be the goal for the NHL club. Its a nice side benefit of having a very good prospect pool, but at the end of the day, the 2 way players are there to be prepared for either an immediate callup or if they are freshly drafted, to get used to the professional game in order to be ready to play NHL hockey in the next couple seasons. Does anyone give a shit that the Durham Bulls have won the IL a few times over the last couple decades? Not really, its a nice thing to have seen happen, but at the end of the day all that matters for the Rays organization is winning the World Series. Same applies in hockey. I don't care at all if Dundon actually said it. It might be blunt, but its true.

Well.....

Yes the parent organization is mostly concerned about winning the big league title give players not only playoff experience but also experience winning a title and a closer look at what it takes, so while winning in the minors is not really a goal its also a little more than a just a bonus, the players gain quite a bit from it.

 

[HisIceness]

The Wolves independent stint went very poorly last year. That's really all that needs to be said here.

I think Wolves fans will like the upcoming team. I mean for one thing they can't be any worse than last year.

 

[AD Skinner]

“One source tells us that someone else reportedly said” may as well be “trust me bro”

 

[Lempo]

Crib = home or Antii’s crib was made up of gold. It’s too bad he didn’t stay in the Triangle.

Home is a good word here. The one they used in Finnish was too vague for me to decipher whether he was talking about a house or an apartment, so crib was a poor choice of mine.

“One source tells us that someone else reportedly said” may as well be “trust me bro”

"Johnny said that Richie said that Johnny said that Richie said --" was a phrase we used to use at work when there was an amount of vagueness of the actual source and the trustworthiness thereof.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Well.....

Yes the parent organization is mostly concerned about winning the big league title give players not only playoff experience but also experience winning a title and a closer look at what it takes, so while winning in the minors is not really a goal its also a little more than a just a bonus, the players gain quite a bit from it.

I mean yeah, but there's a difference between Charlotte winning in 2019 with future NHL'ers Necas, Fleury, Nedeljkovic, Geekie, Bean, Roy, Gauthier and Lorentz (also prospects who never stuck, like Kuokkanen and McKeown), than doing it with a team of Andrew Poturalskli's and Trevor Carrick's.

Right now I think we all want whomever of Nadeau/Blake/FUS doesn't make the Canes this year playing lots of minutes for Chicago, because the player Nadeau/Blake/FUS will be 4 years from now is a lot more important to us than the success of the Chicago Wolves in 2024/25, and if that means giving a 19 year old Nadeau tons of minutes in the minors over some 28 year old tweener whose placement in that spot would objectively be more conducive to winning AHL games than Nadeau, then so be it.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I mean yeah, but there's a difference between Charlotte winning in 2019 with future NHL'ers Necas, Fleury, Nedeljkovic, Geekie, Bean, Roy, Gauthier and Lorentz (also prospects who never stuck, like Kuokkanen and McKeown), than doing it with a team of Andrew Poturalskli's and Trevor Carrick's.

Right now I think we all want whomever of Nadeau/Blake/FUS doesn't make the Canes this year playing lots of minutes for Chicago, because the player Nadeau/Blake/FUS will be 4 years from now is a lot more important to us than the success of the Chicago Wolves in 2024/25, and if that means giving a 19 year old Nadeau tons of minutes in the minors over some 28 year old tweener whose placement in that spot would objectively be more conducive to winning AHL games than Nadeau, then so be it.

TBF, our second Wolves Calder Cup team also had many future NHLers; it's just that some of them were non-traditional late-bloomers like Noesen, Alex Lyon, and Chatfield. Of course, Drury and Kochetkov have also proved that they're NHL-quality.

 

[chaz4hockey]

There's a complete lack of accountability going on in what happened within the Chicago front offices. Had a Wolves superfan try to start some shit with me via DMs last year over how everything went. Watching the Canes take full control and basically force their entire management structure out the door this summer was amusing to see.

Quite frankly, winning games in the AHL shouldn't be the goal for the NHL club. Its a nice side benefit of having a very good prospect pool, but at the end of the day, the 2 way players are there to be prepared for either an immediate callup or if they are freshly drafted, to get used to the professional game in order to be ready to play NHL hockey in the next couple seasons. Does anyone give a shit that the Durham Bulls have won the IL a few times over the last couple decades? Not really, its a nice thing to have seen happen, but at the end of the day all that matters for the Rays organization is winning the World Series. Same applies in hockey. I don't care at all if Dundon actually said it. It might be blunt, but its true.

Agreed plus can’t compare leafs ahl spend to canes. Canes have a great prospect pool that will fill out much of the roster and they just need a few AHL only folks.

 

[Chrispy]

Agreed plus can’t compare leafs ahl spend to canes. Canes have a great prospect pool that will fill out much of the roster and they just need a few AHL only folks.

Carolina is also only at 42/50 contracts right now, so a 2-way NHL deal for someone to play in the AHL makes sense here rather than an AHL only deal.

 

[MinJaBen]

I heard from my uncle’s gynecologist that Dundon thinks 90% of the Wolves roster can be replaced by ChatGPT.

I heard that it was just his speculumation.