Confirmed with Link: New York Rangers Hire John Davidson as President

[kovazub94]

Every single time there's a big UFA we get the "this one's different" speech with 10 different reasons why this one is different.

How many of them have actually been different?

Then show me how he's the same? Find me an example of previous UFA who was 27 yo, 30-goal, PPG player with only 4 NHL seasons behind him?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

What's definition of "something", high IQ genius? JD was talking about no shortcuts to becoming competitive, right? What if he was talking about no shortcuts to becoming competitive as early as next season? Just an extreme example since there were recent rumors, the Rangers could trade a few young players, prospects and picks and bring Malkin. They could then go out and sign a couple of UFAs (e.g. Skinner etc). That would be one example of a shortcut to become immediately competitive. Then compare it bringing Panarin with still longer outlook perspective - it wouldn't be exactly the same, would it? The point is people can put a spin and interpret words in multiple different ways.

There were absolutely no credible rumors that had the Rangers trading for Malkin. Larry did a think piece on it and the only other thing connecting them was a quote from Malkin many years past. No shortcuts means one thing and one thing only, there's nothing to spin. A shortcut would be a move to make the team immediately better, which is something a UFA would do. If a UFA would not make a team immediately better, there would be no point in signing that UFA, would there? The way you are phrasing it "no shortcuts" and "becoming better" are both at odds with each other. They are opposites.

Pretty simple stuff, not really that hard to follow if you know words.

 

[kovazub94]

There were absolutely no credible rumors that had the Rangers trading for Malkin. Larry did a think piece on it and the only other thing connecting them was a quote from Malkin many years past. No shortcuts means one thing and one thing only, there's nothing to spin. A shortcut would be a move to make the team immediately better, which is something a UFA would do. If a UFA would not make a team immediately better, there would be no point in signing that UFA, would there? The way you are phrasing it "no shortcuts" and "becoming better" are both at odds with each other. They are opposites.

Pretty simple stuff, not really that hard to follow if you know words.

It is pretty simple if you allow for different interpretations.

There are different factors that could make the Rangers "immediately better" but that does not automatically mean that all of these factors are "shortcuts". "No shortcuts" is not mutually exclusive with immediate success which could simply be a byproduct. As someone already made a point - in your definition bringing Kakko would make the team immediately better right away. Is it a "shortcut"? Should he be kept away from the Rangers next season? Room for interpretation....

 

[TheBloodyNine]

It is pretty simple if you allow for different interpretations.

There are different factors that could make the Rangers "immediately better" but that does not automatically mean that all of these factors are "shortcuts". "No shortcuts" is not mutually exclusive with immediate success which could simply be a byproduct. As someone already made a point - in your definition bringing Kakko would make the team immediately better right away. Is it a "shortcut"? Should he be kept away from the Rangers next season? Room for interpretation....

How is something that makes a bad team immediately better NOT a short cut?
Kakko is not a short cut. He is a player who yet to be developed and who is going to be on an ELC. It will take time until Kakko is going to be the player he will be. Panarin is a fully developed player.

There is only room for interpretation if you can't come to terms with the truth of the matter. Otherwise, it could not be more cut and dry. You're arguing nothing but semantics.

I'll ask again, because nobody seems to be able to answer the question: How is Panarin NOT a short cut?

 

[Machinehead]

Then show me how he's the same? Find me an example of previous UFA who was 27 yo, 30-goal, PPG player with only 4 NHL seasons behind him?

None of them have been exactly the same player. It's the same result.

 

[kovazub94]

How is something that makes a bad team immediately better NOT a short cut?
Kakko is not a short cut. He is a player who yet to be developed and who is going to be on an ELC. It will take time until Kakko is going to be the player he will be. Panarin is a fully developed player.

There is only room for interpretation if you can't come to terms with the truth of the matter. Otherwise, it could not be more cut and dry. You're arguing nothing but semantics.

I'll ask again, because nobody seems to be able to answer the question: How is Panarin NOT a short cut?

So keeping Zibanejad on a team is going to be a short cut going forward? Same with Kreider for this past season?

Nobody seems to be able to answer your question because you refuse to acknowledge a different perspective. Waste of an effort at this point, at least for me.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So keeping Zibanejad on a team is going to be a short cut going forward? Same with Kreider for this past season?

Nobody seems to be able to answer your question because you refuse to acknowledge a different perspective. Waste of an effort at this point, at least for me.

This has absolutely nothing to do with players already on the team and everything to do with going out and adding UFAs. Subs and Kreider are already a part of the team.

Nobody can answer question because you can’t without your entire premise falling through. Panarin is a short cut. If you can’t tell me why he isn’t then it proves my point exactly.

 

[bobbop]

To me the most fascinating question about where the Rangers stand is "What does John Davidson think?"

Is Panarin worth the kind of money that it will take to sign him?
Is Matt Duchene someone we should consider? He knows him well from Columbus.
Should Kreider be signed or traded?
What about EK65?
What is the plan? Is it aggressive or not aggressive enough?
What is the plan with Henrik?

I would imagine JD is asking lots of questions, processing a lot of information and offering his opinions on these and many other issues. He is wrestling with the big issues. I can't imaging he's spending a lot of time on smaller stuff that the management team has recommended.

I just wonder how many of those opinions will change where the Rangers might and might not have been headed.

 

[Barnaby]

Hahah says the guy who doesn’t realize it’s not you who determines what is or isn’t a shortcut. In my mind what your saying is being fabricated by what you want and not reality. Panarin’s a 27 yo ppg player with low mileage who’s game and body doesn’t seem to be wearing down. You create Kreider for a haul, sign panarin with the cap space and then him be your go-to player to help these kids develop. Where it’s supposedly a shortcut to again. Or is the equation the panarin= should be cup contenders or should expect to be.

And before you question my IQ, I can tell you, I actually have quite a above average IQ, plus I’m real world smart. And you continue to just come across like an ignorant person sitting somewhere behind their phone or computer

Good for you and your high IQ.

It makes zero sense. If Tavares was a free agent 3 years earlier at the same age and signed with the Leafs then they’d be a bubble team that doesn’t have Matthews or Marner. They'd have a Tavares on the wrong side of 30, overpaid, and virtually immovable with nothing to show for it. Instead, they built a core first and added to it. Timing is every bit as important as the player. It makes zero sense to run out at this point in time to sign a winger to one of the largest contracts in the NHL when this team isn’t likely to compete in his prime, that contract will eventually become an albatross, and our top prospects? They’re wingers... we need centers and defensemen. It’s a short term reward move that will be poor long term if you look at nearly every one of these massive deals signed in recent memory.

Side note: this ‘low mileage’ argument is ridiculous. Everybody’s body ages differently. We have no idea about his genetics or what he has or hasn’t done with his body. I’m not ready to give him 7 years based solely on the ‘games played’ number on his hockeydb page.

 

[bobbop]

So now we're measuring IQ around here. Great, just great!

 

[Barnaby]

Every single time there's a big UFA we get the "this one's different" speech with 10 different reasons why this one is different.

How many of them have actually been different?

The much shorter and succinct version of what I was going for!

 

[Barnaby]

To me the most fascinating question about where the Rangers stand is "What does John Davidson think?"

Is Panarin worth the kind of money that it will take to sign him?
Is Matt Duchene someone we should consider? He knows him well from Columbus.
Should Kreider be signed or traded?
What about EK65?
What is the plan? Is it aggressive or not aggressive enough?
What is the plan with Henrik?

I would imagine JD is asking lots of questions, processing a lot of information and offering his opinions on these and many other issues. He is wrestling with the big issues. I can't imaging he's spending a lot of time on smaller stuff that the management team has recommended.

I just wonder how many of those opinions will change where the Rangers might and might not have been headed.

We can also look at JD’s record as President. How did he build St Louis? How did he build Columbus? What’s his past experience in NY watching more good money thrown at a bad product with little result?

The plan involved Sather and Gorton. I’m sure they were involved in the hiring process and looked for someone on the same page. I wouldn’t imagine that Dolan has an issue with it since the Knicks are doing the same thing and he seemingly cares more about basketball.

Look across sports. Football, hockey, baseball... the way to build a winner is through securing young, controllable, high level talent.

I don’t for one second think JD is joining a team halfway through that process and totally bucking the trend. I also don’t think he even gets hired if that’s his plan.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

We can also look at JD’s record as President. How did he build St Louis? How did he build Columbus? What’s his past experience in NY watching more good money thrown at a bad product with little result?

The plan involved Sather and Gorton. I’m sure they were involved in the hiring process and looked for someone on the same page. I wouldn’t imagine that Dolan has an issue with it since the Knicks are doing the same thing and he seemingly cares more about basketball.

Look across sports. Football, hockey, baseball... the way to build a winner is through securing young, controllable, high level talent.

I don’t for one second think JD is joining a team halfway through that process and totally bucking the trend. I also don’t think he even gets hired if that’s his plan.

Everything you said is completely logical and makes all the sense in the world. Great post.

 

[bobbop]

We can also look at JD’s record as President. How did he build St Louis? How did he build Columbus? What’s his past experience in NY watching more good money thrown at a bad product with little result?

The plan involved Sather and Gorton. I’m sure they were involved in the hiring process and looked for someone on the same page. I wouldn’t imagine that Dolan has an issue with it since the Knicks are doing the same thing and he seemingly cares more about basketball.

Look across sports. Football, hockey, baseball... the way to build a winner is through securing young, controllable, high level talent.

I don’t for one second think JD is joining a team halfway through that process and totally bucking the trend. I also don’t think he even gets hired if that’s his plan.

I don’t think he is going to radically change the plan but he is not going to sit idly by.

For instance, what if he has negative information on Panarin and the Rangers were dead set on pursuing him?

Or if he had contrary input on Duchene.

He probably has other insights that were unavailable to the current management.

He’s going to put his fingerprints on this. I have no question. And frankly, I wouldn’t want it any other way.

 

[Barnaby]

I don’t think he is going to radically change the plan but he is not going to sit idly by.

For instance, what if he has negative information on Panarin and the Rangers were dead set on pursuing him?

Or if he had contrary input on Duchene.

He probably has other insights that were unavailable to the current management.

He’s going to put his fingerprints on this. I have no question. And frankly, I wouldn’t want it any other way.

It just goes against everything that they’ve been about the last 18 months. JD discussed sticking with the plan / process. He discussed not taking shortcuts. I don’t see how that translated to EK, Panarin, or Duchene. That’s seems like a radical departure from what they’ve been doing, but maybe they surprise all of us. I feel like the people in the big time free agent camp keep coming up with different scenarios and excuses to fit their argument that directly go against everything they’ve been about to this point.

 

[bmoak]

I don’t think Ola is that wrong about Hartford...they never seemed to want an AHL team and pine away for a bad NHL franchise and it can’t be fun playing to tiny crowds every night.

It’s pretty close to NYC but that’s literally the only decent thing it seems to have going for it. And we wonder why some guys struggle there and play better in the big stage

While I agree that it’s time to move on from Hartford, which, IIRC, is the 2nd longest current affiliation in the AHL, the Wolfpack was initially a pretty successful market. Sure they never filled the arena, but neither did the Whalers. For the first five years, the Pack drew 7,000-8,000, which but them in the top-five in AHL attendance. (There were fewer high-attendance teams back then). Granted they were also a SUCCESSFUL AHL team back then, winning a Calder Cup, built around vets like Gernander, Armstrong, and Smyth, who all stuck around for years.

This year was the worst attendance in Pack history, dipping just under 4,000 for the first time in history, which is bad, but still 7th from the bottom. For the past five years or so, the Pack have held steady at about 4000-4500. The CT Whale stunt bought a temporary increase of about 1000, but it looks like the Pack is stuck in a downward attendance spiral.

Why?
-Poor performance. The Pack’s long-term lacks of success has certainly hurt attendance over the long-term. Remember, people came to see them when they were a winning team.

-Decline/Lack of renovation in the downtown Hartford area. Hartford used to be a more prosperous city than it is now (but that’s true of many smaller cities in the Northeast). The Hartford Civic Center was built as part of a downtown shopping mall many moons ago. How have downtown shopping malls been faring over the past few decades?

-The other tenant of the XL Center’s Ice Rink is the UConn Huskies men’s ice hockey team. They draw between 4500-5500 a game. The people in the Hartford may not have fully embraced the Wolfpack., but they sure love their UConn sports.

Back when the Pack moved to town, UConn men’s basketball was a big deal, but UConn didn’t have Division 1 hockey or Division 1 football, and women’s basketball wasn’t the huge draw it is now. All those teams have seasons that overlap with the Pack.

-Bitter, whiny, ex-Whalers fans. I think they had a bigger impact online (certainly plenty here on HF), but they just have had some impact.

Granted, a lower-league team replacing a higher-league defunct team is often a tough sell in any sport, but I especially disliked Whalers fans saying they could never support the farm team of a “rival”, as if the Whalers had any rivalry with the Rangers. I wouldn’t list the Whalers in the top ten of historical Rangers rivals. The worst thing the Whalers ever did to the Rangers was give away Francis and Samuelsson to the Pens for a handful of magic beans. Karmic justice would be for the Pack to leave, then for Boston to move their farm team in, call them the Hartford Bruins, have Jack Edwards call the games, and retire Brass Bonanza.

 

[n8]

Good for you and your high IQ.

It makes zero sense. If Tavares was a free agent 3 years earlier at the same age and signed with the Leafs then they’d be a bubble team that doesn’t have Matthews or Marner. They'd have a Tavares on the wrong side of 30, overpaid, and virtually immovable with nothing to show for it. Instead, they built a core first and added to it. Timing is every bit as important as the player. It makes zero sense to run out at this point in time to sign a winger to one of the largest contracts in the NHL when this team isn’t likely to compete in his prime, that contract will eventually become an albatross, and our top prospects? They’re wingers... we need centers and defensemen. It’s a short term reward move that will be poor long term if you look at nearly every one of these massive deals signed in recent memory.

Side note: this ‘low mileage’ argument is ridiculous. Everybody’s body ages differently. We have no idea about his genetics or what he has or hasn’t done with his body. I’m not ready to give him 7 years based solely on the ‘games played’ number on his hockeydb page.

I still chagrin not getting Chara 7 years and $7M - still huge term for a defenseman but man, did the Bruins get amazing mileage out of him. And our consolation prize was Wade Redden. Chara was 29 or 30 years old then so it was definitely a risk back then to keep him till 36 at that term. Still would have done it but man, 6 years later, playing in another SCF.

 

[bmoak]

NYCdata: Median Household Income

I have no idea where you get your numbers from. In any event, there is already an arena in Poughkeepsie with about a 3k capacity. Marist's divsion III team plays there. That said I don't know if it would meet the standards for an AHL team (rangers or otherwise).

I've never been to the McCann Ice Arena in Poughkeepsie, but I've been to the Danbury Ice Arena in Danbury CT, which is the only other arena in the area that can seat 3000. No way, no how, would that arena be suitable for the ECHL, much less the AHL, and the AHL BOG would never approve that arena. I personally doubt the DIA can hold 3000, but I guess if everyone sits cheek-to-jowl on the metal benches which make up the majority of the seating (still have my Danbury Trashers seat cushion promo giveaway), you can cram 3000 in. Not only is the arena small, it really lacks amenities. There is only one entrance to the seats, so you have to walk all the way around the rink to get in or out. Not enough restrooms. Poor/slow concessions. Etc.

There really isn't an AHL- suitable arena that would be in range of the Tarrytown practice facility.

 

[bobbop]

It just goes against everything that they’ve been about the last 18 months. JD discussed sticking with the plan / process. He discussed not taking shortcuts. I don’t see how that translated to EK, Panarin, or Duchene. That’s seems like a radical departure from what they’ve been doing, but maybe they surprise all of us. I feel like the people in the big time free agent camp keep coming up with different scenarios and excuses to fit their argument that directly go against everything they’ve been about to this point.

You completely missed my point.

Let’s say the Rangers brass had decided they were going to push all their chips into the middle of the table of Panarin. And then JD came in and said something to the extent of he’s a locker room cancer. More realistically, he may share the position of some here not to spend right now. Think they would rethink their position?

You and I don’t know what they were thinking and we don’t know what JD’s input will be. Everything they have done is moot right now, it’s everything that they are going to do going forward.

JD wasn’t hired to rubber stamp everything.

 

[Barnaby]

You completely missed my point.

Let’s say the Rangers brass had decided they were going to push all their chips into the middle of the table of Panarin. And then JD came in and said something to the extent of he’s a locker room cancer. More realistically, he may share the position of some here not to spend right now. Think they would rethink their position?

You and I don’t know what they were thinking and we don’t know what JD’s input will be. Everything they have done is moot right now, it’s everything that they are going to do going forward.

JD wasn’t hired to rubber stamp everything.

I get your point.

You don’t think JD and Rangers brass made sure they were on the same page prior to the hiring? Your thought is that things could change. There may be disagreements along the way, but I’m pretty sure they’d have been on the same page day 1 on whether they’d be handing out gargantuan 80 million dollar contracts this offseason. I highly doubt Gorton has been pining for Panarin and will now do a complete about face based on JD. If they couldn’t agree on the next 2 months then how do they intend to work together long term? Furthermore, I have yet to see one move or legit rumor alluding to any of this being realistic or in the plans. I don’t see JD walking in the door on day 1 and insisting on a massive deal after preaching consistency and the process.

It’s all based on speculation of people who want a better product next year until we actually hear otherwise bc it completely goes against everything they’ve done and said.

 

[Barnaby]

Then show me how he's the same? Find me an example of previous UFA who was 27 yo, 30-goal, PPG player with only 4 NHL seasons behind him?

Wasn’t Tavares a free agent less than 12 months ago? Every year or two there’s a ‘once in a lifetime opportunity.’ Didn’t ROR just get dealt last year? Build a core first.

 

[kovazub94]

Wasn’t Tavares a free agent less than 12 months ago? Every year or two there’s a ‘once in a lifetime opportunity.’ Didn’t ROR just get dealt last year? Build a core first.

It’s like saying that a SC finalist will come from being one of the worst teams in the league after the New Years because this is what’s happening this year. And even if one UFA of this caliber will hit the market each year it’s quite a stretch to assume all other factors will lineup for that FA to become a Ranger.

 

[bobbop]

I get your point.

You don’t think JD and Rangers brass made sure they were on the same page prior to the hiring? Your thought is that things could change. There may be disagreements along the way, but I’m pretty sure they’d have been on the same page day 1 on whether they’d be handing out gargantuan 80 million dollar contracts this offseason. I highly doubt Gorton has been pining for Panarin and will now do a complete about face based on JD. If they couldn’t agree on the next 2 months then how do they intend to work together long term? Furthermore, I have yet to see one move or legit rumor alluding to any of this being realistic or in the plans. I don’t see JD walking in the door on day 1 and insisting on a massive deal after preaching consistency and the process.

It’s all based on speculation of people who want a better product next year until we actually hear otherwise bc it completely goes against everything they’ve done and said.

I don’t think that JD would disclose confidential information until he signed a contract. What if the deal fell through and he went back to Columbus? What if he knows something about Panarin or Duchene?

As for Panarin, I think the Rangers will be all in on him. Management isn’t going to tell you what they are planning. That’s not the Rangers style. JD either confirms or cautions based on what he knows.

Don’t assume you know what Gorton is thinking.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Wasn’t Tavares a free agent less than 12 months ago? Every year or two there’s a ‘once in a lifetime opportunity.’ Didn’t ROR just get dealt last year? Build a core first.

On the UFA front, people have a point. Tavares is really the first guy to hit the market who was top end since 2012....


But trades are always available and top guys always end up shaking loose for a multitude of reasons (disgruntled player, cheap ownership, dumb front office, cap strapped team, teammate's crazy girlfriend, etc.)

Just look at Panarin himself. A guy of his ilk should have never been made available by Chicago in the first place but cap issues+ Towes and Kane missing their friend brought him to CBJ. This just happened 2 years ago.

 

[Barnaby]

I don’t think that JD would disclose confidential information until he signed a contract. What if the deal fell through and he went back to Columbus? What if he knows something about Panarin or Duchene?

As for Panarin, I think the Rangers will be all in on him. Management isn’t going to tell you what they are planning. That’s not the Rangers style. JD either confirms or cautions based on what he knows.

Don’t assume you know what Gorton is thinking.

Agree to disagree. Following the tea leaves it’s not there.