Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Washington Capitals - December 8

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I see your point, but you're dealing in what-ifs. Obviously his games were limited due to injury, but it was known widely that he wasn't a finisher.

He had 16 goals in the shortened season. Following 2 seasons where he scored 20 goals or more. The notion that he had one good year is just ridiculous

 

[will1066]

I edited my post to which you replied. So again, how many legit 20-goal scorers sign a 2-year, $3.2M contract?

 

[slovakia18]

He had that one good 0utput year on Long Island. He's had a career renaissance here. He's figured out how to shoot the puck.

no idea were comes that from.
After his first year comes the typical hard second one and there he scores too 20 Goals, than the Short Season a Season with 48 GP he played 45 he score 16 Goals, 82 would make 26 or?. Than he played a really good PO series with the islanders 6 GP 4 Points, than at the beginning of the season 13/14 he had a Injurie played with that, with the olyimpics, he joined there not 100% healthy - he score 5 goals-, tournament most goals tied with Kessel, and score 6 Points in 4 GP (6 Best Scorer of the tournament) he found his way to play better.
Than he came back, scores 2 OT winner and played really well the last games in that season.
14/15 again injuried- 2 times at the beginning- and with a pace of 8 Goals in 34 Gp would make 20+ again in a full season.
Than Toronto, yes this stats are bad but he played not that bad, it happens- what ever and now he played that what he can and that would be again 20+ Goals..

 

[Hire Sather]

Yeah some people need to take the L on Grabner. Still don't understand how he wasn't poached

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Grabner has more goals than Rick Nash has points. Woof!

And this is what gets me about the bloggers. Ignore the idea that Kevin Shattenkirk made Barry Trotz look accurate last night with his poor play but be sure to point out Nick Holden's pass to Ovechkin which didn't lead to a goal against.

Is it relevant that it didn't lead to a goal against? It wasn't a credit to Holden that it didn't lead to a goal against.

 

[will1066]

no idea were comes that from.
After his first year comes the typical hard second one and there he scores too 20 Goals, than the Short Season a Season with 48 GP he played 45 he score 16 Goals, 82 would make 26 or?. Than he played a really good PO series with the islanders 6 GP 4 Points, than at the beginning of the season 13/14 he had a Injurie played with that, with the olyimpics, he joined there not 100% healthy - he score 5 goals-, tournament most goals tied with Kessel, and score 6 Points in 4 GP (6 Best Scorer of the tournament) he found his way to play better.
Than he came back, scores 2 OT winner and played really well the last games in that season.
14/15 again injuried- 2 times at the beginning- and with a pace of 8 Goals in 34 Gp would make 20+ again in a full season.
Than Toronto, yes this stats are bad but he played not that bad, it happens- what ever and now he played that what he can and that would be again 20+ Goals..

Like I said to Amazing Kreiderman, your point is made. But the fact is also that he signed for $1.6M per. GMs dole out money based on performance, not what-ifs. They must have been worried about his durability as well. Or maybe Grabner just has a really bad agent. I'm sure his agent made the points you and Amazing Kreiderman made to any GM willing to listen.

 

[eco's bones]

On the question of Tom Wilson he was a difference maker late in the game. The game winning goal pretty much started when he decided to take the puck to the net by bowling over everyone in his way. It nearly worked right then but for the next 30 seconds or so the Rangers never had the puck---the players were gassed and they just collapsed. Wilson for much of that time was an immovable large object right in front of Lundqvist and he assisted on Niskanen's goal and then he finished off any chance of a late comeback with a goal of his own. He also really took it to Brendan Smith a shift or two before all of that began. That could have been a boarding penalty but it wasn't. In any case having a player like that certainly would help the Rangers....and he's getting to the point where he's beginning to add some serious offense to his game.

 

[will1066]

I'll have to watch the hit again, but initially I felt it was a clean hit. Despite his dirty reputation. If he develops an offense side, he could become one of the most feared forwards in the game. He actually botched his goal, lost control of the puck, but the way he went around McD was impressive.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Is it relevant that it didn't lead to a goal against? It wasn't a credit to Holden that it didn't lead to a goal against.

No. Of course not. But at the same time to totally ignore the game Shattenkirk had because he's a "favorite" to point out an error by someone who isn't is unfair to me.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The legs are the same but Grabner has come in to his own confidence wise.

 

[Synergy27]

I'll have to watch the hit again, but initially I felt it was a clean hit. Despite his dirty reputation. If he develops an offense side, he could become one of the most feared forwards in the game. He actually botched his goal, lost control of the puck, but the way he went around McD was impressive.

Initially I thought it was a dirty, scumbag play from a dirty, scumbag player. Then I watched the replay and realized it was a clean hit from a player that I wish the Rangers had. If only Kreider brought that kind of attitude with him into the corners.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The clown who got us to the Finals and back to back ECF for the first time in how many years? When is the last time the Rangers went to back to back ECF?

I don't get why people make this argument.

Are you making it b/c you feel people are unfairly ignoring any positive accomplishments so they are offering an opinion in bad faith?
If so then why would you do the same thing and ignore all the negatives in order to offer an opposing opinion based on the same bad faith?

Is it something else? Do you honestly not understand that there has been a ton of negative?

Didn't Torts get them to the ECF too? Wasn't it essentially the same team? How much was it AV and how much was it essentially the same team that had already gone to the ECF managing to go 1 round further? Does this argument not enter into your mind at all? It's unreasonable to reject this argument completely, which your post here does.

Not saying you don't have a leg to stand on if you feel the positives are a sign that he should be kept. I disagree, but I understand your position. Wish you'd present that opinion in good faith though.

I do think the negatives in recent years have FAR outweighed the positives from years ago and I do think it's just silly to offer an opinion which ignores all this context.

 

[Tawnos]

We (as in the general pop in here, not you) go round and round in circles. It's Hank, it's the system, it's the D.

It's all three, to me. Everyone is older. Hank is older. People focus on age a lot, especially on Hank, but the core players have had a lot of wear and tear. McD can no longer reach elite levels post-shoulder injury. People seem to forget that Staal plays with 1.15 eyes. McD has had a myriad of injuries. They both have a lot of Torts hockey wear-and-tear. Holden is a downgrade from Stralman. Sh*t on the back end began in earnest when we gave up on Stralman to Tampa. Skjei has yet to hit his peak years. Even with all that, Hank covered up a lot of warts in the earlier years. Then you have a system that plays passive D, hoping for stick checks to spring the rush instead of going directly at people. The system collapses too much and gives the other team a lot of room especially above the circles. Then we have poor net-front defense where we usually don't know which man to pick up when there are scrambles and player switches are quicker in tight.

100% correct. As with pretty much everything in this game, there’s no single explanation for what happens.

 

[will1066]

Initially I thought it was a dirty, ******* play from a dirty, ******* player. Then I watched the replay and realized it was a clean hit from a player that I wish the Rangers had. If only Kreider brought that kind of attitude with him into the corners.

Kreider also entered my mind. Then I immediately thought about the Kreider conundrum some have argued: he has had to tone down his aggressiveness to avoid the penalty box. We've all read Kreider himself say that he thinks too much and that he should just go out there and play his game. Whatever it is, Kreider is missing something that prevents him from becoming elite.

 

[trilobyte]

Points made about how effective Wilson was yesterday are well taken, and in no way am I denying that. Personally, I haven't liked his borderline play through his career and I think he has endangered other players in the past. Taken over the long term and the big picture, my opinion of him does not change. I welcome (love) physical play in players, and always have. That is one of the things I have liked so much about Zibanejad's development this year. I thought he used that big frame of his very effectively to push the opposition around or contain them. Damn that concussion.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't get why people make this argument.

Are you making it b/c you feel people are unfairly ignoring any positive accomplishments so they are offering an opinion in bad faith?
If so then why would you do the same thing and ignore all the negatives in order to offer an opposing opinion based on the same bad faith?

Is it something else? Do you honestly not understand that there has been a ton of negative?

Didn't Torts get them to the ECF too? Wasn't it essentially the same team? How much was it AV and how much was it essentially the same team that had already gone to the ECF managing to go 1 round further? Does this argument not enter into your mind at all? It's unreasonable to reject this argument completely, which your post here does.

Not saying you don't have a leg to stand on if you feel the positives are a sign that he should be kept. I disagree, but I understand your position. Wish you'd present that opinion in good faith though.

I do think the negatives in recent years have FAR outweighed the positives from years ago and I do think it's just silly to offer an opinion which ignores all this context.

I would think that’s more that past accomplishments should give a coach some benefit of the doubt, which he hasn’t ever gotten from certain corners of this board.

Also, just as a point: no the team that went to the SCF in 2014 wasn’t the same team as the one that went to the ECF in 2012. The team that lost to the Devils didn’t have Nash, Zuccarello, Brassard, Pouliot, D Moore, J Moore, Klein, Carcillo/Dorsett, or St Louis. They did have Gaborik, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Callahan, Del Zotto, Bickel, Fedotenko, Mitchell, Prust, and Rupp.

Half the roster was different.

 

[kovazub94]

Initially I thought it was a dirty, ******* play from a dirty, ******* player. Then I watched the replay and realized it was a clean hit from a player that I wish the Rangers had. If only Kreider brought that kind of attitude with him into the corners.

It was a boarderline play by a player who walks and often crosses the line and it could have easily get a boarding penalty. Kreider is very strong and unfortunately carries a reputation for crossing the line sometimes too. Situation permitting Kreider should get himself involved with some degree of physical play but he's not Wilson as being the team's 1LW I'd rather have him on the ice instead of a penalty box.

 

[will1066]

The legs are the same but Grabner has come in to his own confidence wise.

I would venture to say that he has gotten better looking since becoming a NYR lol

 

[will1066]

This might be a "too-soon" comment, but I was kinda hoping Kuznetzov to score and the whole arena recreating his self-fist-bump.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I understand that the personnel was better but people are mostly blaming the D on system not players, so why is it so much worse than 2014?

Losing one of the best defensive defenseman in the NHL, the team speed has declined overall. and I think the system has been modified somewhat. AV has never had good defensive results.

 

[Killem Dafoe]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/29-12-09-17-rangers-devils-7-00-msg-2.2421185/