GDT: New York Rangers at Los Angeles Kings - January 8, 2015 - 7:30 p.m. (PST)

[Reclamation Project]

Yep.

Martinez on the third pairing is ideal, but he's proving himself to be a VERY capable 2nd pairing d-man. If we want to roll with that, he needs a partner. Is it Regehr? For the rest of this season, probably, because you definitely don't want Greene with Regehr. But then who skates with Greene, McNabb? That will be fine many nights, but against quick, agile teams like the Hawks and Rangers, night night. We just have an odd configuration with Voynov out. I think to make room for the next partner he has, one of our current d-man will have to go. It's just gonna be ugly, and I get the feeling this will be a trade unlike the others--we all loved getting Carter, Gabby, etc., this one is going to sting, as we'll likely lose someone we love and the value probably won't be great as we're not in a good bargaining position.

Please surprise me, DL!

My ideal scenario -

Muzzin - Doughty
Regehr - Trade
Martinez - Greene
McNabb

Any move is a long term deal. Not some bandaid.

Long term move up Martinez and McNabb to the next spot. Regehr was playing damn solid hockey before he went down.

Voynov isn't coming back this season. If he comes back next season, cross that bridge when it appears.

But what happens if the Kings go out, trade a prospect for a defenseman making $3 million a year and then Voynov is acquitted. If he is acquitted the NHLPA is going to rightfully call for his immediate reinstatement. The Kings at that point would have to immediately trade someone to get under the cap.

The Kings cap situation this past summer was handled incredibly poorly and in a short sighted manner by Lombardi, I'm sure he knows this by now but it still doesn't change the fact that Dean really messed up.

The Kings as of today are paying Brown, Richards, Greene and Stoll a combined $17.3 million, which is slightly more than a quarter of the teams salary cap. Is there a worse ROI on four players in the entire league? In fairness to Greene he is just been forced into a more significant role with the injuries, but the other guys are just disgustingly overpaid. There is a pretty good chance none of them reach 30 points, and it's not as if any of them are going to be mistaken for Guy Carboneau.

If Dean can get this team into a good cap situation by July 1st, it may be his greatest feat to date.

Greene's cap hit doesn't bother me. Richards and Brown's worry me. More so the latter. I still believe Dean will make it all work, and have never really doubted it. He's a magician. As much as I have supported Richards and as much as I still like him, I don't see him having a place on this team next season unless the Kings win another Cup, which isn't out of the realm of possibility. A fourth line center playing a little over 9 minutes a night, making that much $$$ when the defense needs a retooling, isn't feasible. And I'm probably his biggest fan and supporter on this board.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings cap situation this past summer was handled incredibly poorly and in a short sighted manner by Lombardi, I'm sure he knows this by now but it still doesn't change the fact that Dean really messed up.

Shenanigans. Hindsight is 20-20 and Dean Lombardi had the chance to bring back all but one of a championship team. Richards could have been bought out--but Lombardi saw what he wanted. Maybe find a way to keep Mitchell, but he made a decision. And no one saw the Voynov thing coming. If he made other moves, he wouldn't have been a genius, he would have been the crazy guy who dismantled a championship team for a few million in salary cap space...which would have been used to plug the hole we just moved anyway.

Edit: if Voynov is playing right now, are we still complaining about the cap this year? Or are we preemptively worrying about the future?

 

[MynameisKing]

But what happens if the Kings go out, trade a prospect for a defenseman making $3 million a year and then Voynov is acquitted. If he is acquitted the NHLPA is going to rightfully call for his immediate reinstatement. The Kings at that point would have to immediately trade someone to get under the cap.

The Kings cap situation this past summer was handled incredibly poorly and in a short sighted manner by Lombardi, I'm sure he knows this by now but it still doesn't change the fact that Dean really messed up.

The Kings as of today are paying Brown, Richards, Greene and Stoll a combined $17.3 million, which is slightly more than a quarter of the teams salary cap. Is there a worse ROI on four players in the entire league? In fairness to Greene he is just been forced into a more significant role with the injuries, but the other guys are just disgustingly overpaid. There is a pretty good chance none of them reach 30 points, and it's not as if any of them are going to be mistaken for Guy Carboneau.

If Dean can get this team into a good cap situation by July 1st, it may be his greatest feat to date.

You just named off the core leaders of this team. Some may consider they are what the Kings are all about. Is that true? They'd have to be gone for us to find out. All of them.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Shenanigans. Hindsight is 20-20 and Dean Lombardi had the chance to bring back all but one of a championship team. Richards could have been bought out--but Lombardi saw what he wanted. Maybe find a way to keep Mitchell, but he made a decision. And no one saw the Voynov thing coming. If he made other moves, he wouldn't have been a genius, he would have been the crazy guy who dismantled a championship team for a few million in salary cap space...which would have been used to plug the hole we just moved anyway.

Edit: if Voynov is playing right now, are we still complaining about the cap this year? Or are we preemptively worrying about the future?

Maybe, maybe not. He wasn't playing that great when he left.

 

[damacles1156]

Cap space is not the reason the Kings Defense sucks this year. No idea why anyone is complaining about it.

The Defense problem is a TEAM WIDE problem, the Forwards are just as much of a problem as the Defenders.

It's not a coincidence the Kings are scoring at a higher rate than ever, and giving up goals on the back-end.

There has been cheating all over the ice since the start of the season. Just now over the last Five games or so Kopitar finally is back to playing his Defensive style, for a bit there he was a mess.

But I have even seen guys like Brown/Richards be on the wrong side of the puck numerous times this year. Toffoli cheats a lot, lucky he has the speed to correct it, and it hasn't burned him.

Remember last year when the Kings went through a horrendous scoring slump, and one of the problems was the Forwards coming back to far into the zone to ensure good defense ?

Well they are not doing that at all this year, it shows. The Kings are now out of the top ten in team defense.

It's a team wide problem, not a single player, or defender problem.

Also Quick is struggling mighty, like really struggling. When your team defense is struggling, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A SAVE.

Quick needs to step up and help the boy's out. I am confident Quick will right his game.

 

[Herby]

Shenanigans. Hindsight is 20-20 and Dean Lombardi had the chance to bring back all but one of a championship team. Richards could have been bought out--but Lombardi saw what he wanted. Maybe find a way to keep Mitchell, but he made a decision. And no one saw the Voynov thing coming. If he made other moves, he wouldn't have been a genius, he would have been the crazy guy who dismantled a championship team for a few million in salary cap space...which would have been used to plug the hole we just moved anyway.

Edit: if Voynov is playing right now, are we still complaining about the cap this year? Or are we preemptively worrying about the future?

It's not hindsight is 20-20 or Monday Morning QB'ing, that is what people do when they complain about the Kings not drafting Datsyuk or Zetterberg years after the fact. There were plenty of people on this board who wanted the buyout to happen, it's not as if it was some ridiculous or crazy idea. It was reported in the media and questions were posed to Lombardi and his answer was basically that he believed that it was a conditioning issue and that he had faith in Richards returning to being an effective and useful player. I understand and respect Dean's loyalty, but bringing back Mike Richards was like doubling down on a 7, the negatives far outweighed the positives. Richards was not an integral part of last years cup team, there is no way the Kings were going to fall apart without him.

Who knows with regards to Voynov, it was an unfortunate situation that the Kings couldn't have foreseen, but stuff like this happens, heck even without the Voynov suspension the Kings still have a pitiful bottom six forward group that needs to be addressed but wouldn't be able to because of zero cap flexibility, which is going to happen when your 3rd line RW and 4th line center are taking up close to $12 million in cap space and providing basically nothing.

The Brown contract, I mean it's tough to blame Dean, hard to predict that right after signing the contract Brown's game would go into the toilet. And his contract wasn't eligible to be bought out last summer, and even then it would be tough to expect management to pay for a buyout on a contract you just signed. Richards on the other hand was coming off a hideous season, he is a classic example of a smaller player with a lot of miles and the Kings had two clear cut better centers, and Dean didn't sign him to the extension, he could have gone to ownership and explained he is no longer the player we traded for three years before and that his contract was going to be an obstacle to competing beyond the 2015 season when all the contracts came up. The correct and obvious play was the compliance buyout and Dean messed up, it's fine, it happens and like I said DL has had a lot more hits than misses the past few years, but this one was a huge whiff and you have to figure Dean knows it by now.

 

[damacles1156]

It's not hindsight is 20-20 or Monday Morning QB'ing, that is what people do when they complain about the Kings not drafting Datsyuk or Zetterberg years after the fact. There were plenty of people on this board who wanted the buyout to happen, it's not as if it was some ridiculous or crazy idea. It was reported in the media and questions were posed to Lombardi and his answer was basically that he believed that it was a conditioning issue and that he had faith in Richards returning to being an effective and useful player. I understand and respect Dean's loyalty, but bringing back Mike Richards was like doubling down on a 7, the negatives far outweighed the positives. Richards was not an integral part of last years cup team, there is no way the Kings were going to fall apart without him.

Who knows with regards to Voynov, it was an unfortunate situation that the Kings couldn't have foreseen, but stuff like this happens, heck even without the Voynov suspension the Kings still have a pitiful bottom six forward group that needs to be addressed but wouldn't be able to because of zero cap flexibility, which is going to happen when your 3rd line RW and 4th line center are taking up close to $12 million in cap space and providing basically nothing.

The Brown contract, I mean it's tough to blame Dean, hard to predict that right after signing the contract Brown's game would go into the toilet. And his contract wasn't eligible to be bought out last summer, and even then it would be tough to expect management to pay for a buyout on a contract you just signed. Richards on the other hand was coming off a hideous season, he is a classic example of a smaller player with a lot of miles and the Kings had two clear cut better centers, and Dean didn't sign him to the extension, he could have gone to ownership and explained he is no longer the player we traded for three years before and that his contract was going to be an obstacle to competing beyond the 2015 season when all the contracts came up. The correct and obvious play was the compliance buyout and Dean messed up, it's fine, it happens and like I said DL has had a lot more hits than misses the past few years, but this one was a huge whiff and you have to figure Dean knows it by now.

Richards is not the reason the Kings can't play defense team wide.

Richards is not making Quick slump, or Brown have a career worse year, or Kopitar go into enourous slumps.

Richards is simply an overpaid fourth line center. Losing Mitchell hurt, but it's not the reason the Kings all of sudden can't play team defense.

Losing Mitchell and Slava has caused problems, and forced people into roles they probably can't handle.

But every team deals with problems, the Hawks look fine after losing some productive folks.

Forbort/Gravel not being ready is hurting the Kings this season.

 

[Herby]

You just named off the core leaders of this team. Some may consider they are what the Kings are all about. Is that true? They'd have to be gone for us to find out. All of them.

It's tough, but you just can't hang onto awful contracts that effect and hinder the teams ability to compete. And when you are paying that much money to those guys for that many years (except Stoll) you can't have them be this bad.

Brown is going nowhere, so we can just end the speculation on that. If they didn't get rid of Richards after last year no way does Brown with his built up equity get moved unless he has another two years of awful play.

I think this team has plenty of leadership in Brown, Kopitar, Williams, Regehr, Carter, Quick. I just don't see this team collapsing if two of those guys moved on. Detroit didn't collapse after Yzerman and Shanahan left, yes they still had Lidstrom but they also turned the leadership reigns over to younger players who thrived.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I consider Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Greene, and Williams the biggest leaders on this team. Not starting anything, just my thoughts.

 

[damacles1156]

Brown is due 21 million over the next three years, his cap hit buyout is around 3.2 to 3.5 million in 2018 -2019- 2020.

The Kings are not ever going to buy him out. It would be Cap suicide, the savings is literally only like 1.5 to 1.8 million.

Kings started off this home stand on the wrong foot.

1 point out of four so far.

 

[Herby]

I consider Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Greene, and Williams the biggest leaders on this team. Not starting anything, just my thoughts.

None of us really know, maybe Stoll truly is the glue that keeps the team together. Maybe Richards is the unofficial leader of the team, maybe Greene is the best lockerroom guy in the NHL.

But you still need to perform on the ice, and right now the Kings are in a position this summer to possibly lose out on better players currently on the roster and/or not be able to add any UFA's because they have so much money tied into guys not performing on the ice.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's not hindsight is 20-20 or Monday Morning QB'ing, that is what people do when they complain about the Kings not drafting Datsyuk or Zetterberg years after the fact. There were plenty of people on this board who wanted the buyout to happen, it's not as if it was some ridiculous or crazy idea. It was reported in the media and questions were posed to Lombardi and his answer was basically that he believed that it was a conditioning issue and that he had faith in Richards returning to being an effective and useful player. I understand and respect Dean's loyalty, but bringing back Mike Richards was like doubling down on a 7, the negatives far outweighed the positives. Richards was not an integral part of last years cup team, there is no way the Kings were going to fall apart without him.

Who knows with regards to Voynov, it was an unfortunate situation that the Kings couldn't have foreseen, but stuff like this happens, heck even without the Voynov suspension the Kings still have a pitiful bottom six forward group that needs to be addressed but wouldn't be able to because of zero cap flexibility, which is going to happen when your 3rd line RW and 4th line center are taking up close to $12 million in cap space and providing basically nothing.

The Brown contract, I mean it's tough to blame Dean, hard to predict that right after signing the contract Brown's game would go into the toilet. And his contract wasn't eligible to be bought out last summer, and even then it would be tough to expect management to pay for a buyout on a contract you just signed. Richards on the other hand was coming off a hideous season, he is a classic example of a smaller player with a lot of miles and the Kings had two clear cut better centers, and Dean didn't sign him to the extension, he could have gone to ownership and explained he is no longer the player we traded for three years before and that his contract was going to be an obstacle to competing beyond the 2015 season when all the contracts came up. The correct and obvious play was the compliance buyout and Dean messed up, it's fine, it happens and like I said DL has had a lot more hits than misses the past few years, but this one was a huge whiff and you have to figure Dean knows it by now.

Even if I were to concede every point--and I think each one is questionable at best as per my thoughts above--what does having an extra bit of cap space do for this team right now? at the end of the season?

You said it was poor and short-sighted management by Lombardi but what were the alternatives? Buy out Richards, don't sign Greene? Fine--good luck replacing those guys immediately. I think everyone agree Greene gone would be a shockwave to a team that just won the cup. Even if you think Richards wasn't, filling his slot with whatever (Shore, FA) to save a couple of million doesn't truly help us this season. It MIGHT in the future, but again, who blows up the cup team to do that? And no one here was in that room with DL and Richards. Even if it was a 'miss' as you suggest, and I know you're not bashing him, I think DL has earned the benefit of the doubt enough with that one. Regardless, his cap management this past offseason was far from poor and short-sighted and all our doomsday scenarios have solutions even if the cap does not go up. I don't know what your GM expectations are, but I have a hard time imagining a better situation post-championship. And if we're in a bad spot going into next season, I can practically guarantee it won't be for a lack of cap space.

 

[damacles1156]

Folks Quick has a sub 900. SV in his last what ? Ten games ?

That tells you something as well. The Kings have a terrible record so far in one goal games, that is on your Goalie.

Quick/Jones need to start making saves.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Yeah, but he won't keep that up. I'm not worried about him at all. It is a present problem though and a major reason for our recent failures.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Folks Quick has a sub 900. SV in his last what ? Ten games ?

That tells you something as well.

Yep, that the defense is abysmal.

He had a .846 tonight IIRC--would you lay this game at his feet?

He's a cog in the machine as well. It's all dysfunctional. I'm actually kind of glad we don't have him stealing games at the moment because that would mask our problems. Hell, even tonight could have been a lot worse if not for a few Sportscenter saves.

 

[damacles1156]

Yep, that the defense is abysmal.

He had a .846 tonight IIRC--would you lay this game at his feet?

He's a cog in the machine as well. It's all dysfunctional. I'm actually kind of glad we don't have him stealing games at the moment because that would mask our problems. Hell, even tonight could have been a lot worse if not for a few Sportscenter saves.

Lombardi knows what the problem is.

Quick needs to make some saves, the Kings can't afford to blow this home-stand. With being such a poor road team.

The Kings record in one goal games is not good, as Sutter would say "With our Defense, we need excellent Goalies" "We need a save in there".

 

[Herby]

Even if I were to concede every point--and I think each one is questionable at best as per my thoughts above--what does having an extra bit of cap space do for this team right now? at the end of the season?

You said it was poor and short-sighted management by Lombardi but what were the alternatives? Buy out Richards, don't sign Greene? Fine--good luck replacing those guys immediately. I think everyone agree Greene gone would be a shockwave to a team that just won the cup. Even if you think Richards wasn't, filling his slot with whatever (Shore, FA) to save a couple of million doesn't truly help us this season. It MIGHT in the future, but again, who blows up the cup team to do that? And no one here was in that room with DL and Richards. Even if it was a 'miss' as you suggest, and I know you're not bashing him, I think DL has earned the benefit of the doubt enough with that one. Regardless, his cap management this past offseason was far from poor and short-sighted and all our doomsday scenarios have solutions even if the cap does not go up. I don't know what your GM expectations are, but I have a hard time imagining a better situation post-championship. And if we're in a bad spot going into next season, I can practically guarantee it won't be for a lack of cap space.

I can live with Greene, little bit long in the contract length but it's not a back breaker like the Richards contract.

I think using the term "blowing it up" is completely ridiculous, even if the Kings chose not to re-sign Greene and bought out Richards that is your #6 defenseman and your fourth line center. Greene was a healthy scratch for many games last year, including playoff games and Richards was one of if not the worst player on the team from December on. Blowing it up is what the Marlins did in 1997 and what the Chicago Bulls did in 1998. I really fail to see how a roster that returned Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, Jeff Carter, Jonathan Quick, Justin Williams, Marian Gaborik, Jake Muzzin Willie Mitchell and Slava Voynov would constitute blowing it up.

As for questioning calling the decision not to buy him out a "whiff", what other word you use to describe it. The guy is probably not going to crack 30 points, is once again blowing everyone out of the water in defensive ineptness (3rd straight season) and is playing 9-12 minutes a night. I just want one person to provide anything tangible that Mike Richards is adding to this team right now, he doesn't score, he is awful defensively and he isn't physical. What exactly is his role on this team, sure seems like it's basically a fourth line energy guy, and in that case BigKing's description of Chartrand is spot on. Sure seems like it was whiff by Lombardi. And I'm sure DL will try and fix it soon.

 

[damacles1156]

Also the PK is just really struggling. Going to be a long January if the Kings blow this home stand.

 

[MynameisKing]

Root problems. We're looking for the root problem, guys. I think it has been the D. I said it towards the beginning of the season and it is continuing at present. Root problem of the Kings is the D. All other problems branch off from it.

Can you trust Greene to cover wide? Regehr? McNabb? McBain? Schultz? Can you trust these guys with 1 on 1 coverage? Can Doughty make it past game 60 without dropping dead from fatigue? Maybe he can, but will he still be effective like Doughty can?

It's D. D. D.

 

[ADifferentTim]

10 seconds left and the Kings are goofing around behind the net, lol. This is such a miserable team to watch right now. I don't see how this season can turn around. Dean has to make a big move to fix our D and get some hungry players back in that room. As of right now, it looks bad.

One of my issues with this team is that they're resting on their laurels.

Probably no top 4 D out there that aren't going to cost the Kings a Toffoli.

Issue a controversial salary dump (read: Greene/Stoll package), then use the freed-up cap space for call ups. At least Greene and Stoll's chemistry remain intact elsewhere.

Anyone getting worried about a playoff spot yet?

I already am; being a wildcard can be cardiac.

I'm sure they can get someone for Clifford. We got Regehr for two 2nd rounders, no? Anyone is better than Schultz & McBain

Free cap space for hungry prospects!

The Kings really are carrying quite a bit of deadweight on the bottom lines. Nolan has played his way into a pressbox by doing nothing, Clifford is getting to that point, Richards, Andreoff is probably too soon to lump into that category but he hasn't done anything to standout whenever he's been in the lineup.

They need some new blood in the lineup. Get Shore, O'Neill and Weal in there!

Thank you; Sutter's distrust of younger players reminds me too much of the Yankees, giving away prospects for veterans.

We don't need another Regehr. We need a Voynov and it's going to cost us.

I know and hopefully, doesn't involve Tanner and Tyler.

That girl behind Patrick with the white hair. You the real MVP.

Pics or didn't happen.

When is Lombardi going to realize that this defense just isn't cutting it out? If we ****ing re-sign Jarrett Stoll, I'm going to absolutely lose my ****. It's time for him to go. It was time for Matt Greene to go too, but you know, LEADERSHIP! CHARACTER! can't teach those things!

What's the point of leadership when torch recipients are not around?

 

[damacles1156]

For once the Kings don't have a problem scoring, although it's one of the reasons the Defense is in the toilet.

The Kings are close to being a Top Ten offense.

 

[damacles1156]

Root problems. We're looking for the root problem, guys. I think it has been the D. I said it towards the beginning of the season and it is continuing at present. Root problem of the Kings is the D. All other problems branch off from it.

Can you trust Greene to cover wide? Regehr? McNabb? McBain? Schultz? Can you trust these guys with 1 on 1 coverage? Can Doughty make it past game 60 without dropping dead from fatigue? Maybe he can, but will he still be effective like Doughty can?

It's D. D. D.

I would agree but, Losing Mitchell/Slava is not the reason the forwards have collective sucked team wide on Defense.

That makes no sense. Kopitar is only just right now playing back to his elite 200ft game.

If anything, losing those two should have seen the Kings (tighten things up). But this group is playing loose, really loose.

It shows in the offensive out put, also shows on the poor back end.

 

[damacles1156]

I can live with Greene, little bit long in the contract length but it's not a back breaker like the Richards contract.

I think using the term "blowing it up" is completely ridiculous, even if the Kings chose not to re-sign Greene and bought out Richards that is your #6 defenseman and your fourth line center. Greene was a healthy scratch for many games last year, including playoff games and Richards was one of if not the worst player on the team from December on. Blowing it up is what the Marlins did in 1997 and what the Chicago Bulls did in 1998. I really fail to see how a roster that returned Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, Jeff Carter, Jonathan Quick, Justin Williams, Marian Gaborik, Jake Muzzin Willie Mitchell and Slava Voynov would constitute blowing it up.

As for questioning calling the decision not to buy him out a "whiff", what other word you use to describe it. The guy is probably not going to crack 30 points, is once again blowing everyone out of the water in defensive ineptness (3rd straight season) and is playing 9-12 minutes a night. I just want one person to provide anything tangible that Mike Richards is adding to this team right now, he doesn't score, he is awful defensively and he isn't physical. What exactly is his role on this team, sure seems like it's basically a fourth line energy guy, and in that case BigKing's description of Chartrand is spot on. Sure seems like it was whiff by Lombardi. And I'm sure DL will try and fix it soon.

The Kings have to trade Richards(if they want to get rid of him), his buyout Cap hit is still too large(to be worth it). Richards is owed to much money over the next three years.

Buy Out Cap hits, next four years:
2016-17: $1,716,667
2017-18: $2,716,667
2018-19: $4,216,667
2019-20: $4,216,667

 

[MynameisKing]

I would agree but, Losing Mitchell/Slava is not the reason the forwards have collective sucked team wide on Defense.

That makes no sense. Kopitar is only just right now playing back to his elite 200ft game.

If anything, losing those two should have seen the Kings (tighten things up). But this group is playing loose, really loose.

It shows in the offensive out put, also shows on the poor back end.

Well, if the those D men aren't capable then wouldn't the forwards have to over compensate and cover for them? Remember the Kings play a tight man on man D.

 

[damacles1156]

Well, if the those D men aren't capable then wouldn't the forwards have to over compensate and cover for them? Remember the Kings play a tight man on man D.

Correct, which is why it doesn't make sense.

The Kings are scoring at a higher pace, and cheating all over the ice.

That doesn't make sense with the current D group. The forwards are not coming back enough (or deep enough) to help out the D.

It doesn't make any sense, just like the Kings corsi road numbers, and the poor road record.