New Western Pro Hockey League trying to launch
- Thread starter SemireliableSource
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Based on what I've seen of club hockey and Single-A, I don't think the latter is even getting the creme de la creme of the former.
I wish I saw this forum sooner! I happen to know about the league a little bit if anyone has any legit questions. One thing I can tell you all is that this league is set to start next October early November. They plan on having 8 total teams for the inaugural season. they will have a northern division that consists of 4 teams and a southern division that will consist of an additional 4 teams. They are set to announce two teams this month in the northern division. I write hockey articles and did and interview with these guys that will be posted next week that you guys can check out. They are actually building something pretty solid and I would definitely keep an eye out with how they are building this year .
JMCx4
HUTCH Lives!
Oh, so the WPHL has adopted the 3ICE business plan of rolling out their product in fits & starts to build support in a overcrowded sports segment. It's a winning formula.
Oh, so the WPHL has adopted the 3ICE business plan of rolling out their product in fits & starts to build support in a overcrowded sports segment. It's a winning formula.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you couldn't be anymore wrong in that statement you just made. This leagues business plan is nothing like 3ICE.... And also , you mentioned they are in an overcrowded sports segment , that statement couldn't be more wrong as well... idk what it is but here's some facts for you to chew on, if you need anymore clarifacation about what's really going on with this league, feel free to ask, I have tons of information on these guys and their league from my interview.. As someone who writes sports articles, I appreciate facts over speculation.
SemireliableSource
Liter-a-cola
As someone who used to cover hockey in multiple forms of media, it's best to not hide behind a screen name and say things like, "as someone who writes ..."
Plenty of people on here know my name because we've coexisted on various other hockey boards for years where I had my actual name as my screen name. I've also shared articles I've written on these and other boards where you could easily find my name if you look at the byline.
Instead of claiming to have knowledge and trying to big-time people, just post the articles or share info already.
Plenty of people on here know my name because we've coexisted on various other hockey boards for years where I had my actual name as my screen name. I've also shared articles I've written on these and other boards where you could easily find my name if you look at the byline.
Instead of claiming to have knowledge and trying to big-time people, just post the articles or share info already.
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
Imagine trying to big time people on a message board claiming inside information about a garbage league that hasn't played a game and has almost certainly been hit with a C&D for trademark infringement by a major corporation within months of announcing its existence...
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
Can't wait to read his "work..."
Judging by the grammar in his posts, he's either got great editors or works for free. I'd put my money on the latter.
Im curious what facts you have about this league ? All I see here is a bunch of off the wall speculation. WPHL article goes live on the 18th. Ill post link then.
Atlantian
Registered User
We have next to no facts other than the league is operated by people involved in failed low level pro/semi-pro leagues in the past and your posts. Everything we have is speculation because there are no facts available other than a team is expected to play in Vegas and they have already had to change their logo, presumably due to legal issues. All we want is more info to base our opinions around, but there is none, so we will continue to speculate until there is something solid.
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
We also have the fact that the Las Vegas Millionaires originally had a logo that flagrantly infringed on the trademarks of Hasbro, the makers of the Monopoly board game, and then replaced that logo abruptly with a very generic casino chip logo.
None of the people listed on the website's staff page have any experience starting up or running a professional team in any sort of legitimate league - much less starting up an entire league.
None of that is "off the wall speculation." Those are facts.
Looking forward to seeing your "article" though. I'm sure it'll be in a reputable publication.
JMCx4
HUTCH Lives!
mk80
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2012
- 8,348
- 9,005
The bigger question is, what facts do you have on this league?
Let me dissect this statement alone for a second. The only market they have a team in, Las Vegas, is very highly competitive for the entertainment dollar. Beyond the plethora of general entertainment options, the Golden Knights have essentially the entire hockey market locked up, especially with the addition of the Henderson Silver Knights. So any low level team like the Millionaires is going to have a hard time attracting any attention and pulling from the two largest leagues in the world. Outside of that is the Raiders, and MLS bid led by VGK owner Bill Foley, I think an NBA discussion. Outside of pro sports UNLV has a big chunk of the sports scene with basketball. That's hard enough to compete in, but adding in the fact that likely teams in this league will operate on a shoestring budget, makes it even harder to compete for the entertainment dollar.
Looking at many western markets, most if not all viable markets for minor pro hockey are filled by the AHL, and ECHL, and junior leagues like the WHL, NAHL, and BCHL which all provide a better product than this league would. The few spots that don't have existing teams have failed at higher levels of minor league hockey, or are places too small to support sustaining a pro hockey team, even one at a Single-A level.
Last edited:
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
The biggest problem with Class-A hockey is this: Who the F is going to pay to watch these guys play? These are guys who couldn't/didn't play NCAA Division I or Major Junior, and often didn't even play Tier II Junior A. Clowns like Kirnan, Richards, Jerry Deno, and now Frank Santelli try and sell crap this as "pro hockey," when it's somewhere between a glorified beer league and a traveling circus.
Even a semi-knowledgeable fan is going to look askance at Class-A hockey played in a practice rink. The reality is that this is a vanity project for Santelli to keep playing "pro hockey," which in and of itself is laughable, given his eight games of experience over two seasons separated by five years.
JMCx4
HUTCH Lives!
You left Soskin off your Clowns list. Or does he qualify as a Ring Master?
There's plenty of D1/CHL/USHL/CJHL guys who aren't in the NHL/AHL/ECHL. Do you think someone could make a go of it with those guys and largely marketing everything but the game to all but the diehards (who'll show up anyway) a la independent minor league baseball?
Reasons why I think it could work:
- Offering a winter equivalent to minor league baseball (both the inexpensive pro sports and the experience) works at the higher levels, why not the lower?
- There's room for something between the ECHL and the current state of "Single-A", both talent and economics-wise.
- It's not like every decent-sized arena with an ice plant has a pro or high-level junior team.
Reasons why I think it couldn't work:
- People will put up with much lower talent levels in baseball because there;s no college sports (other than the baseball tournament in June and soccer starting in mid-August) in the summer. Baseball also lacks a true equivalent to juniors.
- There's more plausible baseball markets than hockey markets.
- The "things to do" crowd is often not looking for "things to do" in the winter other than Christmas-y stuff in December and often pretty much hole up at home other than work/school (and worship if they're religious) in January and February - unless they vacation somewhere warm. There's a reason "cabin fever" is a thing.
- Hockey players seem quicker to get a "real job" and play beer league than baseball players, who are more likely to chase the pro dream as long as they can.
- Hockey fandom is an odd bunch. There's the NHL/AHL/CHL/ECHL fans for whom some (even tenuous) connection to the NHL is a sign of quality and then there's those who prefer to watch less-talented players play more physical hockey (Single-A). While the ECHL still does have some overlap of these two groups, might true independent pro hockey be not enough of either to draw good numbers of hockey fans (sorta like how the original XFL was too football for pro wrestling fans and too pro wrestling for football fans)?
Sorry for the wall of text. This was much shorter in my mind.
- Offering a winter equivalent to minor league baseball (both the inexpensive pro sports and the experience) works at the higher levels, why not the lower?
- There's room for something between the ECHL and the current state of "Single-A", both talent and economics-wise.
- It's not like every decent-sized arena with an ice plant has a pro or high-level junior team.
Reasons why I think it couldn't work:
- People will put up with much lower talent levels in baseball because there;s no college sports (other than the baseball tournament in June and soccer starting in mid-August) in the summer. Baseball also lacks a true equivalent to juniors.
- There's more plausible baseball markets than hockey markets.
- The "things to do" crowd is often not looking for "things to do" in the winter other than Christmas-y stuff in December and often pretty much hole up at home other than work/school (and worship if they're religious) in January and February - unless they vacation somewhere warm. There's a reason "cabin fever" is a thing.
- Hockey players seem quicker to get a "real job" and play beer league than baseball players, who are more likely to chase the pro dream as long as they can.
- Hockey fandom is an odd bunch. There's the NHL/AHL/CHL/ECHL fans for whom some (even tenuous) connection to the NHL is a sign of quality and then there's those who prefer to watch less-talented players play more physical hockey (Single-A). While the ECHL still does have some overlap of these two groups, might true independent pro hockey be not enough of either to draw good numbers of hockey fans (sorta like how the original XFL was too football for pro wrestling fans and too pro wrestling for football fans)?
Sorry for the wall of text. This was much shorter in my mind.
mk80
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2012
- 8,348
- 9,005
So here's something on their press release of this new advising company they've partnered with WPHL ENGAGES BENIZIO SPORTS TO BOLSTER BUSINESS OPERATIONS – Western Professional Hockey League
At the end it says the following:
That doesn't sound too western to me, Texas-Montana sounds more central. It's not like there was ever a Central Hockey League that has tried and ultimately lost it's footing in the region and couldn't sustain it's operation.
Also I'll have to pull out my atlas but Las Vegas is located between Texas and Montana now I guess.
I'd be very interested for them to find one actually viable location to place a team that isn't occupied by the AHL, ECHL, NAHL, USHL
At the end it says the following:
That doesn't sound too western to me, Texas-Montana sounds more central. It's not like there was ever a Central Hockey League that has tried and ultimately lost it's footing in the region and couldn't sustain it's operation.
Also I'll have to pull out my atlas but Las Vegas is located between Texas and Montana now I guess.I'd be very interested for them to find one actually viable location to place a team that isn't occupied by the AHL, ECHL, NAHL, USHL
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
First of all, we did sort of have that kind of hockey landscape in the late 90s when the UHL, WPHL, CHL, and WCHL were all filling that hole. The AHL and IHL were developing talent for the NHL and the ECHL had as many teams as it does now or more, and most of them were affiliated, making in the lower league players with a chance at the show wanted to play in.
Back then, there were a lot of multi-millionaires minted by the roaring Clinton economy willing to invest in a hockey team because, well, why not? They brought UHL/CHL/WPHL/WCHL hockey to a lot of places that had little or no experience with it and brought it back in a lot of places that hadn't had pro hockey in a while.
A lot of the players in those leagues were either hanging on to the dream or weren't ever going to be good enough to play in the higher leagues, but riding the buses for a few years beat getting a real job, especially when you're getting all kinds of freebies - beer, meals, housing, and plenty of girls throwing themselves at you because hockey was there and hockey was hot.
It was a unique time in hockey history that was a lot of fun to be a part of.
I think there's room for that kind of hockey talent-wise, but I don't think there is economically. If the average ECHL player is making $600/week, and the average SPHL guy is making $400/week, even with housing covered, I'm not sure there are that many players coming out of college or Major Junior that are going to give up making real money for a couple years to go have fun for $400/week.
On top of that, at a time where consumer prices are rising, fans have less disposable income, which will make it harder to sell tickets. Consider how difficult the entertainment market is in general. Hardly anyone goes to movies in theatres, and not just because of Covid. Most movies and TV shows are available at the touch of a button and 60" HD televisions cost $500. It's hard to compete with that.
Then throw in the arena equation - if you have to draw 4,000 just to break even, which is probably in the ballpark for most midsized arenas, that's a lot. Now make it a product that's not affiliated with and not subsidized by the NHL, and where no player is going to the highest level, and fairly often, not many are even going to the next level - not sure fans are going to want to see that. With baseball, even the short-season Class-A teams had guys who went on to be big stars in the Majors. No one has gone from the SPHL to being a star in the NHL. You could almost say the same for the ECHL. Sure, there are more arenas than there are teams, but there's a reason for that - the arena operator knows it's more profitable to not have hockey than to have hockey.
I'd love to see 30 more successful, well-run minor pro teams, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
Back then, there were a lot of multi-millionaires minted by the roaring Clinton economy willing to invest in a hockey team because, well, why not? They brought UHL/CHL/WPHL/WCHL hockey to a lot of places that had little or no experience with it and brought it back in a lot of places that hadn't had pro hockey in a while.
A lot of the players in those leagues were either hanging on to the dream or weren't ever going to be good enough to play in the higher leagues, but riding the buses for a few years beat getting a real job, especially when you're getting all kinds of freebies - beer, meals, housing, and plenty of girls throwing themselves at you because hockey was there and hockey was hot.
It was a unique time in hockey history that was a lot of fun to be a part of.
I think there's room for that kind of hockey talent-wise, but I don't think there is economically. If the average ECHL player is making $600/week, and the average SPHL guy is making $400/week, even with housing covered, I'm not sure there are that many players coming out of college or Major Junior that are going to give up making real money for a couple years to go have fun for $400/week.
On top of that, at a time where consumer prices are rising, fans have less disposable income, which will make it harder to sell tickets. Consider how difficult the entertainment market is in general. Hardly anyone goes to movies in theatres, and not just because of Covid. Most movies and TV shows are available at the touch of a button and 60" HD televisions cost $500. It's hard to compete with that.
Then throw in the arena equation - if you have to draw 4,000 just to break even, which is probably in the ballpark for most midsized arenas, that's a lot. Now make it a product that's not affiliated with and not subsidized by the NHL, and where no player is going to the highest level, and fairly often, not many are even going to the next level - not sure fans are going to want to see that. With baseball, even the short-season Class-A teams had guys who went on to be big stars in the Majors. No one has gone from the SPHL to being a star in the NHL. You could almost say the same for the ECHL. Sure, there are more arenas than there are teams, but there's a reason for that - the arena operator knows it's more profitable to not have hockey than to have hockey.
I'd love to see 30 more successful, well-run minor pro teams, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
So here's something on their press release of this new advising company they've partnered with WPHL ENGAGES BENIZIO SPORTS TO BOLSTER BUSINESS OPERATIONS – Western Professional Hockey League
At the end it says the following:
That doesn't sound too western to me, Texas-Montana sounds more central. It's not like there was ever a Central Hockey League that has tried and ultimately lost it's footing in the region and couldn't sustain it's operation.
I'd be very interested for them to find one actually viable location to place a team that isn't occupied by the AHL, ECHL, NAHL, USHL
Texas to Montana? The travel costs alone will sink these clowns before they finish a season.
SemireliableSource
Liter-a-cola
The burden of proof falls to the one making the claim. Show your hand, it's not our responsibility.
I love this breakdown of the situation. I only wanted to make one minor correction: There are minor baseball leagues that are independent of MLB farm systems.
Indy Ball Island
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
Affiliated minor league baseball is what I'm talking about. I know indy ball exists, and I've been to a few games, but generally, it's professional baseball if it were run by the minds behind the FHL. While there have been some long-term successes, there have also been myriad failures.
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
-
-
Super Bowl LIX WINNER - Pick only one teamWagers: 2Staked: $1,766.00Event closes - 4 days from now- Updated: