GDT: New Jersey Devils vs. Washington Capitals - 7:30pm

[glenwo2]

Game is hard

That's what she said.

 

[JrFischer54]

i dunno how anyone can watch that game last night and not be worried about the goaltending its still early so plenty of time to turn it around but dang that was tough last night. -end of rant-

 

[Devs3cups]

Too often on here, many want to single out one particular area and label that as the reason for a loss. There doesn't have to be an individual scapegoat.

-We continue to start games flat. We extended that to also coming out flat for the 3rd.
-The penalty kill and the decision making by our defenders, specifically Siegs and Marino who are expected to be better.
-The puck management, poor passing, poor support, poor breakouts. This is what causes lack of cohesion offensively and inevitable chaos in our own end. This, in particular, caused some of the odd man rushes to occur that ended up in our net.
-The relatively poor goaltending, specifically from Schmid.

There is work to be done. I'd rather it be now than later in the year. October is when you get these kinks worked out.

The defense could definitely be tighter. Our goalies aren’t making the saves. I agree.

Love the new avatar btw lol!

 

[glenwo2]

it’s 6 games and we’re 1 point out of the top spot in the division. some of you guys need to take a step back from the ledge

It's 6 games and the standings don't matter.....yet.

Right now, banking as many points as possible in the 1st half of the season matter.

Hope the team removes their heads out of their asses and have better starts to games.

 

[JK3]

Go back and look at the highlights, it’s real easy. 4 goals given up off partial breaks or two on ones. Just complete botched/missed coverage. Of course you want saves there but I’ll never blame the goalie on a two on one or breakaway.

Go back through the other games especially against Detroit, odd man breaks and two on ones galore. No one’s talking about cause we got stops there. They need to cut down on the glorious chances.

I’m not completely absolving the goaltending, they’ve been pretty leaky (especially Schmid) on the other goals.

 

[glenwo2]

BTW, all this talk about how 3rd or 4th stringers won a Cup or whatever is basically saying "Every Goaltender is the same" which is not true at all.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Too often on here, many want to single out one particular area and label that as the reason for a loss. There doesn't have to be an individual scapegoat.

-We continue to start games flat. We extended that to also coming out flat for the 3rd.
-The penalty kill and the decision making by our defenders, specifically Siegs and Marino who are expected to be better.
-The puck management, poor passing, poor support, poor breakouts. This is what causes lack of cohesion offensively and inevitable chaos in our own end. This, in particular, caused some of the odd man rushes to occur that ended up in our net.
-The relatively poor goaltending, specifically from Schmid.

There is work to be done. I'd rather it be now than later in the year. October is when you get these kinks worked out.

It's fine to point out that multiple issues are at play. I agree, these can and all are true.

I don't think most people believe only one single issue is to blame. I think the disconnect is that some people insist goaltending and defense are two completely distinct issues vs. others see them is extremely connected in the era of the average goalie. As someone in the latter group, the former to me comes across as nothing more than an attempt to scapegoat an average player.

I made the analogy to a defensive pairing earlier. It makes no sense to single out the average d-man in the pair when he fails to stop the opposition effectively while his above average partner is completely shitting the bed and leaving the average guy hung out to dry.

 

[Devils731]

On a good note, Luke Hughes was really roaming the offensive zone last night.

That’s the special flair that should make him a star so hopefully this was him getting more comfortable in taking those chances and we will see him do it more often.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I can't stand this retort, as if I'm a hockey moron who can't discern a decent game from a bad one just based on the goals scored. This team has won games so far this season where I've observed and made the same criticisms as this game that they lost. Even if our goalies bailed them out last night, it would not have changed my view of how horrific they played in their own end. Stop with this condescending BS.

Ok, sorry the truth hurts. This game is won more often than not.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Ok, sorry the truth hurts. This game is won more often than not.

Yes against a team like the Caps it probably is. Still doesn't change that the play in our end was f***ing shit, and won't win them games against better competition, even if their average goalie happens to bail them out more than last night.

 

[Better Call Sal]

BTW, all this talk about how 3rd or 4th stringers won a Cup or whatever is basically saying "Every Goaltender is the same" which is not true at all.

No, it isn't. What it is saying, though, is that it is harder now than ever before to find a difference maker in goal. Whether it's the result of many goalies focusing on technical soundnesss and certain styles or simply the speed of the game and talent around the league, league average goaltending has decreased in quality over the last few seasons.

The average save percentage (yes, this is the stat I use) was .904% last season, and is still .904% so far this season. At the rate we are capable of scoring, we should be capable of tightening up defensively to make it easier on our goaltenders to meet that type of save percentage. It all starts with being better with the puck in my eyes. Things will improve once we take better care of the puck.

In his limited sample so far this year, Vanecek is at .900% so he is slightly below that average. But he has put on decent performances in Montreal and against Detroit. Give him the ball for a bit and see what he does.

 

[devilsblood]

I don’t think Vitek is the one getting blame here. Schmid had a very bad game, Vitek was average and made some good stops. I would’ve liked a save on that 2nd goal, but whatever. First one on Vitek was on the D.

He did, he does need to make saves, but each of the goals he allowed were on odd man rushes.

Not sure why these advance stats don't show such basic high quality goal scoring situations.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The new EDGE stats are really useful for goalies. Looking at Vitek's SV% chart:

VV is above average at medium range, only allowing two goals all year. He has yet to allow a goal from long range. He is stopping the shots that he is supposed to stop.

Where he's getting killed is in high-danger chances right in front of the net, that's where nearly all of the goals against him have been scored:

He is in the top one-third of goalies in terms of the number of high-danger shots he's faced. And he's saving them at a below average level.

This tells me that Vitek is mostly doing his job, generally he stops it if he sees it. But his defense is leaving him out to dry by allowing over 7 high-danger opportunities per game. That will destroy any goalie. If they can reduce the number of inner slot chances, Vitek will give us quality goaltending.

On the other hand:

Schmid is getting eaten alive by mid-range and long-range. He is doing pretty well against inner-slot opportunities, but he is letting in lots of weak chances from the outside.

These data tell me that Vitek is getting let down be the defense, whereas Akira is the one who is letting his team mates down. Vanecek should be the de facto starter going forward, at least until Schmid is able to rebound. Some AHL time for Schmid to get his confidence up would be great, but I don't think we have the luxury of making that decision at the moment.

 

[Camille the Eel]

The same argument can be done with the defence though. Let’s say you lose a 3-2 game. You’ve played perfect defence, except for 3 bad mistakes that resulted in goals. Is it the defence’s fault, or the goalie’s fault for not making big stops when your team has defended extremely well in front of you for the rest of the game? Are scoring/high danger chances a mulligan for goalies?

The team doesn’t need to play perfect defence for goalies to make saves, no team is perfect defensively. Some teams have goalies that mask some mistakes because they make the important saves on mistakes that, whether we like it or not, will happen in a hockey game.

This. So it comes down to group responsibility right ? Team defense with the goalie a part of that defense, as the final line of defense. And truly we sucked across the board last night. (The corollary being I don’t pin the loss mainly on the goaltending - it was a reverse team effort but certainly included crappy play by Schmid in particular).

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

It's really my fault. The last two games I worked from home and had a coffee during the game, I did neither of those today. I take responsibility for my actions

Probably didn’t even sniff a piece of pumpkin pie. Disgraceful.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Probably didn’t even sniff a piece of pumpkin pie. Disgraceful.

There wasn't a pumpkin pie in sight, I'm a phoney!

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

There wasn't a pumpkin pie in sight, I'm a phoney!

We’ll get through this together. Everyone else f*** off, this is our moment.

 

[Cheddabombs]

We’ll get through this together. Everyone else f*** off, this is our moment.
View attachment 758163

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Yes against a team like the Caps it probably is. Still doesn't change that the play in our end was f***ing shit, and won't win them games against better competition, even if their average goalie happens to bail them out more than last night.

I never said we played well. This was like our C- game. Still at least get point with okay goaltending. It would’ve been nice to get more than 1 PP too.

 

[NJDevs26]

BTW, all this talk about how 3rd or 4th stringers won a Cup or whatever is basically saying "Every Goaltender is the same" which is not true at all.

It practically is these days, there are anywhere from 3-5 top goalies in the sport depending on how hard a marker you are and everyone else runs hot and cold at best, and a lot of anon/average goalies win Cups these days. Pretty much every year Tampa hasn’t won a Cup in the last decade tbh

 

[devilsblood]

The new EDGE stats are really useful for goalies. Looking at Vitek's SV% chart:

View attachment 758145

VV is above average at medium range, only allowing two goals all year. He has yet to allow a goal from long range. He is stopping the shots that he is supposed to stop.

Where he's getting killed is in high-danger chances right in front of the net, that's where nearly all of the goals against him have been scored:

View attachment 758146

He is in the top one-third of goalies in terms of the number of high-danger shots he's faced. And he's saving them at a below average level.

This tells me that Vitek is mostly doing his job, generally he stops it if he sees it. But his defense is leaving him out to dry by allowing over 7 high-danger opportunities per game. That will destroy any goalie. If they can reduce the number of inner slot chances, Vitek will give us quality goaltending.

On the other hand:

View attachment 758149

Schmid is getting eaten alive by mid-range and long-range. He is doing pretty well against inner-slot opportunities, but he is letting in lots of weak chances from the outside.

These data tell me that Vitek is getting let down be the defense, whereas Akira is the one who is letting his team mates down. Vanecek should be the de facto starter going forward, at least until Schmid is able to rebound. Some AHL time for Schmid to get his confidence up would be great, but I don't think we have the luxury of making that decision at the moment.

Again, does not factor in things such as odd man rushes.

Mantha had all the time in the world and a pass option.

The Strome goal has Schmid moving cross crease, and then back again.

If all these charts are giving you is location, I just don't find it all that useful.

 

[devilsblood]

There were so many goals against that I forgot the details of all of them. The free tequila shots didn't help. Just went and watched the replays.

All 5 goals against were odd man rushes.

Defense, or however you want to define odd man rushes, is culprit #1. The epitome of hanging the goalie's out to dry.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Luke Hughes good

There were so many goals against that I forgot the details of all of them. The free tequila shots didn't help. Just went and watched the replays.

All 5 goals against were odd man rushes.

Defense, or however you want to define odd man rushes, is culprit #1. The epitome of hanging the goalie's out to dry.

Counter argument: make a save

 

[devilsblood]

Counter argument: make a save

Doesn't excuse the breakdowns. Five odd man rushes against is not good hockey. Don't care what the x% says.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Doesn't excuse the breakdowns. Five odd man rushes against is not good hockey. Don't care what the x% says.

I don’t care what the x% says either. My eyes told me we weren’t getting any saves. We needed one more save.