Post-Game Talk: New goalie, new year, same suckiness

[JimEIV]

In the last 2 years our goalies have been a guy who may have never been completely healthy, a guy whose hip exploded, a guy we just acquired this offseason who has played 1 game...and a bunch of non NHL caliber goalies. The system may not help, but let's not make it sound like we've had quality goalies who have been sandbagged by the team in front of them.

These little weasel words make discussion impossible sometimes...

Nobody is claiming we got quality goaltending....the claim is: it is impossible for an average goaltender to be average here. At least that's my claim.

 

[Bleedred]

Regardless of how good they are they both had drop offs in SV% from the middle of March to the end of the season..

Vanecek went .919 to .875
Samsonov went .901 to .879

I suppose that could be a coincidence?

.


Samsonov got the majority of the starts all year.

I'm almost certain Vanecek was injured at some point in the second half of the season. I think he was on pace to play more games than Samsonov early on, but Samsonov wound up playing more. Between the team preferring him to Vanecek later in the season and the time that Vanecek sat out injured.

They both got exactly 39 starts, but Vanecek appeared in 42 games and Samsonov appeared in 44.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Vanecek gave up more than 4 goals twice last year.

In 42 games played in with 39 starts...from the start of the season to through February, he gave up more than 3 only twice and had two shutouts in that span. Apparently he forgot how to tend his net?

Naw he caught the same disease Grubauer caught. Avs goalies gave up 4 goals or more 27x, 19x and 14x (in56g) the past three seasons with Grubauer. Seattle had 39 last year. Guys worst yearly SV% was..915 in his career before last year's debacle.

 

[MadDevil]

These little weasel words make discussion impossible sometimes...

Nobody is claiming we got quality goaltending....the claim is: it is impossible for an average goaltender to be average here. At least that's my claim.

The irony is strong with this one.

 

[Eggtimer]

To me both can be true. Struggling goalies and a system that exacerbates that.

I think this is most likely the case . Not one exclusively.

 

[billingtons ghost]

You always miss the point and always need it to be written out as such a kindergarten kid will understand. Precious.

Let me help you.

Normal goaltending last night and its not a 5-2 loss. Would they win? That’s up in the air. 5-2 loss? Absolutely not, and absolutely not debatable.

Does that help your thinking skills?

I think they got exactly 'normal' goaltending. And I think normal goaltending equates to 5-2 loss with this team. We got very good goaltending in Blackwood's first preseason start and that translated to a loss too. I think it's very possible that the 'good enough to win' bar is just higher for our team in these past two games and all of last year, and maybe since Lindy got here... Partially bc of personnel

 

[MadDevil]

To me both can be true. Struggling goalies and a system that exacerbates that.

I don't disagree. My problem with this argument is the same I have with most around here. It's this stupid tribal shit where both extremes dig in and go to war with each other, which pretty much eliminates any chance at a middle ground.

I've never been a fan of Ruff and I don't think our system helps our goalies. However I don't think the system is so bad that no goalie stands a chance behind it. I don't think our system gives up uniquely dangerous chances. There are breakdowns in every system. The problem for us is when those breakdowns do happen we haven't had very good goalies to bail us out. Shit, we haven't even gotten saves on non-breakdown shots enough recently.

 

[JimEIV]

I'm almost certain Vanecek was injured at some point in the second half of the season. I think he was on pace to play more games than Samsonov early on, but Samsonov wound up playing more. Between the team preferring him to Vanecek later in the season and the time that Vanecek sat out injured.

They both got exactly 39 starts, but Vanecek appeared in 42 games and Samsonov appeared in 44.

It doesn't look look like it?
Although I not sure?

Through December

Samsonov had 17 decisions 13-2-2. .909 SV%

Vanecek had 15 decisions 6-5-5. .910 .910 sv%

 

[glenwo2]

I think this may finally be the season I break out the ignore feature for that crowd, although as often as they end up being quoted I'll still see their BS anyway I'm sure.

Please don't put me there. I'll be good.

 

[Satans Hockey]

The normal bad faith posters make it unbearable here. Even when they were winning in 17-18, and especially now the last few years. A long hiatus is due. Enough.

That team made the playoffs but they had numerous points in the season that were horrid. At one point they had a streak of like 12 games where they only won 2. They literally made the playoffs on the second to last game of the season and then got stomped in 5. Hall dragged that team to the playoffs with his best ever season that he won't ever recreate. It's amazing they even made it but it doesn't make up for a decade of shit.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I don't disagree. My problem with this argument is the same I have with most around here. It's this stupid tribal shit where both extremes dig in and go to war with each other, which pretty much eliminates any chance at a middle ground.

I've never been a fan of Ruff and I don't think our system helps our goalies. However I don't think the system is so bad that no goalie stands a chance behind it. I don't think our system gives up uniquely dangerous chances. There are breakdowns in every system. The problem for us is when those breakdowns do happen we haven't had very good goalies to bail us out. Shit, we haven't even gotten saves on non-breakdown shots enough recently.

This is a good post, and I kinda agree. But here's my take: 82 games last year plus pay of the previous year, the goalies have been the scapegoat. Ok, after all of one game (the horror) silver magic bullet Vanacek didn't solve the problem despite the analytics saying he should have. Where the f*** do you go now? At least Jim and others are pointing out that the multifaceted stew of problems could potentially be addressable by something other than... 'Hey let's try ten new goalies this year bc one might be good'....

 

[Bleedred]

It doesn't look look like it?
Although I not sure?

Through December

Samsonov had 17 decisions 13-2-2. .909 SV%

Vanecek had 15 decisions 6-5-5. .910 .910 sv%

Vanecek didn’t play a game from December 19th until January 10th at one point. I’m too lazy to check how many games the Capitals played between those dates and there probably was about a week’s worth of covid postponements around that time during the week of Christmas.

And then he went an even longer period without games between February 1st and February 28th, so that might really been when I remember him injured. They may not have played a whole lot of games that month, as much of that month was made up of covid postponements, as there were originally no games scheduled for a lot of that period due to the planned Olympic break.

I didn’t realize Samsonov dropped off that much. I really think Washington wanted him to be the goalie of the future, as he has the higher ceiling than Vanecek and was always the more highly rated prospect, but to this point he’s been unable to hit that ceiling. He’ll have plenty of time now with Matt Murray being on IR for at least a month.

Samsonov last year got progressively worse almost every month after November. An .895% December, .876% January, .898% February, .876% March and an .898% April. I didn’t realize it was that bad. Yikes.

Vanecek got a bit worse later in the season, but had a .929% January and a .910% March. But also an .895% February and an absolutely brutal 7 games of .875% April. And he even had a shutout in the month of April in there with that .875% so it was bad.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Naw he caught the same disease Grubauer caught. Avs goalies gave up 4 goals or more 27x, 19x and 14x (in56g) the past three seasons with Grubauer. Seattle had 39 last year. Guys worst yearly SV% was..915 in his career before last year's debacle.

Or it’s just 1 game. Francouz just stunk it up and gave up 5 on 27 shots.

 

[JrFischer54]

Team just isn’t talented. By all means change the coach but the results will be the same.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[My3Sons]

These little weasel words make discussion impossible sometimes...

Nobody is claiming we got quality goaltending....the claim is: it is impossible for an average goaltender to be average here. At least that's my claim.

That’s a reasonable point but it doesn’t exclude any causes of why.

 

[Homedresser]

It’s so much easier to believe that the team is one goalie fix away from being respectable than to acknowledge that this is a shit stew that calls into question the quality of the ingredients, chefs, and restaurant ownership.

Over what he rolled out there last year? He's absolutely an upgrade.

MAF was a guy I was interested in, but it sounds like he's been brutal to start the season too.

Which get's me back to another theme I've been pushing for awhile now, acquiring good goalies is not easy. Keeping the good one's healthy is a whole other thing. Just look at the goal tending in the playoffs last year. 40 year old guys, #3's, guys with sub .900 save %. And those are the good teams.

so what's that tell you when a team is offering you a goalie for free that's started 75 games for them over the last 2 seasons?

 

[Triumph]

so what's that tell you when a team is offering you a goalie for free that's started 75 games for them over the last 2 seasons?

That might tell me something, but Vanecek wasn't free. He was also arbitration-eligible and that can make things difficult for a team wanting to sign a 'proven starter' - Vanecek was due starter-ish money and the Capitals could not afford that.

 

[devilsblood]

so what's that tell you when a team is offering you a goalie for free that's started 75 games for them over the last 2 seasons?

Its not a glowing endorsement. But Wasy did the same with Sieg’s so you can question their personnel decisions. Id also say that while NJ was looking to improve upon terrible, Wash is looking for Stanley cup quality goal tending.

 

[devilsblood]

That might tell me something, but Vanecek wasn't free. He was also arbitration-eligible and that can make things difficult for a team wanting to sign a 'proven starter' - Vanecek was due starter-ish money and the Capitals could not afford that.

But they are paying $2 mil more for Kuemper. So they def think he is an upgrade. Lindgren is getting backup money so the back goalie position should be viewed as a money saving decision.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Team just isn’t talented. By all means change the coach but the results will be the same.

Less talented teams find ways to win more games then we do all the time

 

[billingtons ghost]

Or it’s just 1 game. Francouz just stunk it up and gave up 5 on 27 shots.

Absolutely true. I'm thoroughly hoping I am wrong and Vanacek is our magic bullet with a .953 SV% ALL SEASON LONG.

 

[Devs3cups]

Absolutely true. I'm thoroughly hoping I am wrong and Vanacek is our magic bullet with a .953 SV% ALL SEASON LONG.

Let’s will it into existence!

 

[JrFischer54]

so what's that tell you when a team is offering you a goalie for free that's started 75 games for them over the last 2 seasons?

A division rival no less

 

[JrFischer54]

Its not a glowing endorsement. But Wasy did the same with Sieg’s so you can question their personnel decisions. Id also say that while NJ was looking to improve upon terrible, Wash is looking for Stanley cup quality goal tending.

I know that sieg is an analytic wet dream but let’s give it another year before we rate it better then the hall for larrson deal