New GM Discussion Thread

[Captain Mountain]

I don't know how somebody can still defend Timmins. The guy is a big part of the mess this franchise has turned into.

I'm not defending him, I'm saying a degree is not a confirmation of intelligence or a precursor to real world success, just a measure of academic success and an indication of knowledge.

 

[Chili]

The #1 priority for a GM is their depth chart.

They need to know every player in the league (+ beyond) and be an excellent talent evaluator in my opinion.

I would settle for someone with a PhD in NHL.

 

[Price4Prez]

The #1 priority for a GM is their depth chart.

They need to know every player in the league (+ beyond) and be an excellent talent evaluator in my opinion.

I would settle for someone with a PhD in NHL.

What we need is a cyborg mash of Julien Brisebois (business/hockey op brains),McGuire (insane player knowledge), and D.Poile (the right kind of ballsy)

 

[Chili]

What we need is a cyborg mash of Julien Brisebois (business/hockey op brains),McGuire (insane player knowledge), and D.Poile (the right kind of ballsy)

Poile had the advantage of having his Dad as his mentor (Bud Poile).

McGuire was with the Pens when they became a top team and has said his mentor was Scotty Bowman. He did alot of scouting and when I hear him talk, he sounds like a scout.

Brisebois is in a good position to learn alot from Yzerman (who learned from Holland and Bowman), I don`t know his scouting background.

Another name I would look at would be Martin Madden. The Ducks draft as well as anyone, arguably better. Another son of a former NHL GM.

I`m sure there will be other well qualified names as well, when and if the Habs make a change.

 

[yianik]

Reality is we are not getting a new GM any time soon.

GM changes in season are rare and I think the last time it happened with us was in 1995 when 4 or 5 games in Serge Savard and Demers were let go and in came Houle and Tremblay. Did not work out so well.

Makes sense though as quite often guys you want to talk to are actually employed. It is possible we could get clearance to speak with someone now. And yes, that could be Brisbois if Yzerman clears it and it is allowed under Brisbois contract.

Even if this could happen I am skeptical of Molson even considering it at this point. His little funny of last week does not make me think he is cringing about what is going on, but more importantly he has been very loyal to MB and he may at the least be content to let MB ride out the year.

MB staying on board is terrifying for me.

There are several teams that look to be very interested in making moves for the type of players ie Patches and Weber for example that we have to offer.if we were doing a re-whatever. For me, we are not contenders and cannot be contenders any time in the next year or two so any moves must be towards the re-whatever.

MB will not be looking at re-whatever moves, they will be win now moves { meaning getting into the play-offs , not a Cup } and this is what causes me concern. Trading our last high value assets in a futile move to get us to sneak into a play-off spot. Perhaps it will be something like Patches and Galchenyuk plus ? to get Giroux out of the Flyers. Oh great, our 1C. And you know, MB would expect to get some slack from French media and fans for bringing in yet another Franco. He would get some , but I believe not too much in reality. Being French does not make you unable to see what has happened or oblivious to the pandering of such a move. But in his head, I think MB would believe he will be seen as having pulled off a coup, which would make something like that tempting for him. In reality this would just make the task of getting us on the right track even harder and delay a recovery much longer.

So most people are bouncing off the walls with everything that has happened and the problem is it is not yet over. More damage is likely coming in the eyes of those who, like me, do not believe we are close to being a contender for a Cup. For me, just getting into the play-offs , long shot that it is right now, because , you know, " anything can happen if you make the play-offs" is complete BS. I know MB does not believe in analytics or numbers I guess but being out by 6 points with half a dozen teams between us and a play off spot at this point makes us pretty much done. Anyway, we need to be contenders , not part of the "Cluster".

I hope I am wrong. I desperately am. But unless Molson does something...

 

[Omar]

Timmins is not the problem here. If it were up to him, we’d have McDonaugh, Subban, and Sergachev with Galchenyuk at #1 center. It’s our terrible development and bad management decisions that have screwed us.

 

[417]

The question was directed to what you wrote in the quoted post.

You stated "I don't think it's necessarily because of what he's accomplished vs other potential candidates".

I asked you what you felt was superior accomplishments of other candidates.

Never implied anything more so I'm a bit confused by all the other points you then brought up that had nothing to do with my simple & direct question.

And the original question you directed at me really had nothing to do with what I wrote either...

Since I never actually said that other candidates, have accomplished more.

What I said was that I find it weak that Brisebois would be at the top of potential list of GM's to replace Bergevin mainly because this team prioritizes language before anything else.

That doesn't mean that I think other potential candidates have more accomplishments. That IS actually, what you're implying.

 

[Sorinth]

I don't know how somebody can still defend Timmins. The guy is a big part of the mess this franchise has turned into.

Well pretty much the only positives this team has had in the past 15 years are the result of Timmins's work.

 

[Hannibal]

Well pretty much the only positives this team has had in the past 15 years are the result of Timmins's work.

And pretty much all the problems we have rigth now is all the first round pick bust he made from 2008 to 2011 and not only in the first round but even beyond that. We have no young prospects who can come and play an important role right now, no good prospect in Laval, not enough good prospect to make a significant trade to improve club.

I'll give him credit for 2007.

But for 2008 to 2017, we have Gallagher, Lehkonen, Galchenyuk and Hudon with the club. 4 players in almost 10 years. Fantastic job.

Bergevin, when he got here, said we would build through the draft. Now, we went from "build through the draft" to "drafting is hard" and "Draft is like rolling the dice"

This is unnacceptable. Both Bergevin and Timmins are not doing the job and needs to pay for what they have done.

 

[Runner77]

Why is he not our GM yet, scoop this guy as soon as possible tabarnak. He won't be available for long!!!

There is the real risk that he may get scooped up elsewhere as there are other GM positions that will vacate before the end of the year. This is where Geoff will need to stop trying to be Marc's best friend and do what is right for the organization as it needs to move toward a new management approach.

 

[Guess]

What we need is a cyborg mash of Julien Brisebois (business/hockey op brains),McGuire (insane player knowledge), and D.Poile (the right kind of ballsy)

Maybe Mcguire for President and Brisebois for GM, one is an expert in scouting and helps bring in qualified guys, the other is a cap expert

 

[G0bias]

Get Brisebois in Tampa and offer the moon to Dubas in Toronto, to be his President. Or vice-versa, don't curr.

Bring the other Hunter too. Could be a good add to amateur scouting. Get it done Geoffrey.

 

[Sorinth]

And pretty much all the problems we have rigth now is all the first round pick bust he made from 2008 to 2011 and not only in the first round but even beyond that. We have no young prospects who can come and play an important role right now, no good prospect in Laval, not enough good prospect to make a significant trade to improve club.

I'll give him credit for 2007.

But for 2008 to 2017, we have Gallagher, Lehkonen, Galchenyuk and Hudon with the club. 4 players in almost 10 years. Fantastic job.

Bergevin, when he got here, said we would build through the draft. Now, we went from "build through the draft" to "drafting is hard" and "Draft is like rolling the dice"

This is unnacceptable. Both Bergevin and Timmins are not doing the job and needs to pay for what they have done.

Well first of all no team fills every hole through drafting. So if the expectations is that every core player on the team should've been acquired by Timmins then it's just not realistic.

Second many of the holes are directly linked to Bergevin moves. The lack of puck moving defence is because he let go Markov and traded Subban, Sergachev and Beaulieu. Letting Radulov walk and not replacing him created a hole, etc...

It's also dishonest to only look at the draft and ignore the undrafted players that Timmins and his team would've scouted and then recommended the GM give a shot too. So there's no reason Desharnais, Condon, Lindgren, etc... shouldn't also be considered part of his body of work.

But really if you want to analyse someones work then look at the whole picture from 2003-2007 Timmins was considered one of the best, getting 17 players with 300+ NHL games, which works out to over 3 a year. Starting in 2008 his record is much worse. So the question is what changed? One is obviously the lack of picks, especially high picks from 2008-2011. Though that's not the whole story. The other thing is Bergevin came in changed Timmins's job and hired/replaced a bunch of people on the scouting/development side. So the most likely situation is that the changes Bergevin made had a negative impact.

Leblanc went from being a borderline NHL player at 20 to a complete bust. Tinordi/Beaulieu had just finished very good junior seasons and were considered top prospects league wide and they seemingly regressed every year under Lefebvre/Therrien. And in these cases we can even point to things the AHL coaching staff did that hurts a player's development, like playing Leblanc on the 3rd/4th line because that's what he'll be as an NHLer, or telling McCarron to not focus on developing his offence, or pushing Tinordi to act as an enforcer and then him getting hurt because of it, etc...

It's possible Timmins lost his touch, but the most likely reason is the changes Bergevin made to our drafting/development team.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Has Brisebois?

What's your point?

You think I have a problem with Brisebois, but I don't, it's just your understanding that's the problem

I don't you're wrong 100%. You have no clue what my understanding is.

 

[417]

I don't you're wrong 100%. You have no clue what my understanding is.

Clearly, I don't

 

[Miller Time]

And the original question you directed at me really had nothing to do with what I wrote either...

Since I never actually said that other candidates, have accomplished more.

What I said was that I find it weak that Brisebois would be at the top of potential list of GM's to replace Bergevin mainly because this team prioritizes language before anything else.

That doesn't mean that I think other potential candidates have more accomplishments. That IS actually, what you're implying.

I quoted your exact words both in my first post, and in the post you responded to. It seems you are confusing your replies... helps to read the post you are quoting before responding.

You stated "I don't think it's necessarily because of what he's accomplished vs other potential candidates".

Your words suggested precisely that you don't think his accomplishments are a major factor in why he's a top candidate. I asked you to contextualize your opinion of his accomplishments and how/why they don't stack up and you've avoided answering that simple question, choosing instead to focus on language for no apparent reason as far as my question to you was concerned.

I would argue that he's as accomplished as they come outside of pre-existing NHL experience. That he's francophone is a nice coincidence for once (no different than when we could, and should, have hired Guy Boucher). While language will probably be a major factor, as it typically is, in this case it's useless to complain about that as a flaw in the process given that Brisebois is quite legitimately the best candidate, especially outside of individuals with NHL experience.

 

[Runner77]

What does this guy know and how does he know it:

 

[Belial]

^^^
Is this really a surprise for you? I mean it's a a known fact that a lot of players want nothing to know about playing here.

 

[G0bias]

^^^
Is this really a surprise for you? I mean it's a a known fact that a lot of players want nothing to know about playing here.

But Belial, who wouldn't want to play here when you have dumb and dumber in charge chasing their best players out of town?

 

[WeThreeKings]

That fact makes it all the more idiotic when you trade Subban and let Radulov go.

These guys excelled here and did it in the play-offs. Yet, they were treated like trash every day.

I wouldn't come here either and I'm sure agents advise their players against it as well. I can't imagine Bergevin is held in high esteem outside of this organization.

 

[Whitesnake]

I'd have Montreal as a place I wouldn't want to go. They say it's one of the best place when you win. And an awful place when you lose. And guess what...we're losing.

 

[Saint Patrick]

I'd have Montreal as a place I wouldn't want to go. They say it's one of the best place when you win. And an awful place when you lose. And guess what...we're losing.

Tons of reasons why I buy that. Extreme pressure, bullshit like what Price went through, taxes, weather and current performance sum it up. Habs might have been a dynasty in the NHL but the price is no longer worth it in my opinion. Even more reason to hang on to players that really want to be here, but the way this management rolls, they still believe playing for this team is a privilege. The quicker we get over this the faster we’ll be able to deal with reality. I love this team but let’s not kid ourselves in thinking a talented player who had a bunch of options, without any of the negatives I named won’t just ignore everything and beg to play here.

 

[Kojo]

We don't just need a new GM we need the owner to step down from hockey operation business. Otherwise it will be more of the same.

 

[Saxon]

If we hire a rookie GM (Brisebois for example) we need to poach an experienced GM to be president.

 

[Belial]

But Belial, who wouldn't want to play here when you have dumb and dumber in charge chasing their best players out of town?

I doubt it has anything to do with the GM...