New GM Discussion Thread

[Habs Icing]

Almost all francophones in the NHL, GM, assisrant GM, coaches, were first given a chance in pro hockey by Montréal. Strangely Bergevin is one of the few exceptions. Dorion, Brisebois, Vigneault, Boucher and Julien got his first NHL job with the Habs. So who else is giving first chances to francophones? The Nordiques back in the days.

Vigneault was given his chance by the Sens. Julien got his from the Oilers.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Vigneault was given his chance by the Sens. Julien got his from the Oilers.

Julien didn't get his from the Oilers, He got it from the Habs.

 

[Sorinth]

Thing is...if we do start with the fact that there's a positive prejudice in Montreal towards locals, for every Will, Zito, Guerin and Lee....tell me what they have that Brisebois doesn't? I'M NOT advocating to take a local for the sake of taking one. I would not suggeste to take Damphousse, Stéphane Richard or Guy Lafleur as GM because they speak the language. But in a time where a guy like Brisebois is around....I have no idea why we can't be confidence he wouldn't do a good job. He is employed and loved by the TBay management who is not a bad management. And he knows the ins and outs of the job too. So in an anglo world where for 2 similar candidates, they'll probably go with the anglo instead of the franco, in Montreal, we do the opposite.

Brisebois is a strong candidate for a GM's job whether there is a language requirement or not. But that's the key, if there is no requirement he's one candidate among several, if there is a language requirement then he's pretty much the only sensible option. We saw the same thing last time around, Bergevin was a strong candidate, and several teams had him on their short list of potential candidates. In MTL, he was the only good option since the other options were clown candidates like McGuire.

The truth is we as fans know very little about who would make a good GM, as we don't know what the strength and flaws of the different candidates actually are. If they've never been in charge we probably don't even know much about their team building philosophy. The only way to get a good idea on those things is to interview the person.

As for the rest of the NHL going with the anglo instead of the franco, that sounds like BS. Plenty of Francophone coachs/GMs were given opportunities by other teams, you really think they all faced discrimination? So when Colorado hired Roy, he got the job despite Sakic having a preference for an anglo? Give me a break.

 

[Habs Icing]

Julien didn't get his from the Oilers, He got it from the Habs.

Check your history records. The Habs shared their AHL team with the Oilers and Edmonton hired Julien. the Habs had to pay the Oilers a draft pick to hire Julien as head coach.

from Wikipedia:
In spite of a franchise high in attendance in 2001, the Edmonton Oilers announced plans to move their AHL franchise to Toronto. The same "Stay Dogs Stay" committee went back to work for the second consecutive year, and secured local interests who made a multimillion-dollar investment to secure ownership of the Quebec Citadelles franchise from the Montreal Canadiens and merged them with Hamilton, thus keeping the Bulldogs in town.[2] The achievement to preserve the team was a unique joint venture between the Montreal Canadiens, the Edmonton Oilers, the American Hockey League, and a local consortium of Hamilton owners, which allowed for a joint affiliation in 2002–03 between Montreal and Edmonton as ownership changed hands.

The Oilers were the ones who had hired Julien.

this was written:
Because the Canadiens share the AHL Bulldogs with the Edmonton Oilers this season, Julien was actually under contract with the Oilers. As compensation, Montreal will send a fifth-round draft pick in 2003 to Edmonton. The pick will become a fourth-rounder if the Habs make the playoffs.

in this article
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/canadiens-fire-therrien-hire-julien-1.397102

 

[Sorinth]

Almost all francophones in the NHL, GM, assisrant GM, coaches, were first given a chance in pro hockey by Montréal. Strangely Bergevin is one of the few exceptions. Dorion, Brisebois, Vigneault, Boucher and Julien got his first NHL job with the Habs. So who else is giving first chances to francophones? The Nordiques back in the days.

Guy Boucher was given an AHL job by the Habs but an NHL job by Tampa.
Claude Julien was given an AHL job by Edmonton but an NHL job by Montreal.

You can't claim Montreal gave both their first opportunity.

EDIT: And Vigneault was an NHL assistant coach in Ottawa before he became the Habs's head coach.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Check your history records. The Habs shared their AHL team with the Oilers and Edmonton hired Julien. the Habs had to pay the Oilers a draft pick to hire Julien as head coach.

You're vastly overestimating how much say NHL teams had with their AHL affiliates in 2000 and how much ownership they had of franchises. The Bulldogs and Cary Kaplan selected Julien as their head coach, not the Oilers. He was Oilers property, but it wasn't their front office that hired him.

 

[Habs Icing]

You're vastly overestimating how much say NHL teams had with their AHL affiliates in 2000 and how much ownership they had of franchises. The Bulldogs and Cary Kaplan selected Julien as their head coach, not the Oilers. He was Oilers property, but it wasn't their front office that hired him.

Read the article I posted. Julien was under contract to the Oilers. They gave him his first chance in pro sport. Not the Habs. The Oilers.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Read the damn article I posted. Julien was under contract to the Oilers.

I read the article, thanks. Under contract doesn't mean that the Oilers said, lets make Julien our head coach. AHL franchises weren't like today where they're pretty much just subsidiaries of the parent club. They were more like contracted teams in other leagues. Oilers had Julien's rights by virtue of their arrangement with the Bulldogs. It doesn't mean the team "gave him a chance".

 

[Habs Icing]

I read the article, thanks. Under contract doesn't mean that the Oilers said, lets make Julien our head coach. AHL franchises weren't like today where they're pretty much just subsidiaries of the parent club. They were more like contracted teams in other leagues. Oilers had Julien's rights by virtue of their arrangement with the Bulldogs. It doesn't mean the team "gave him a chance".

Yeah because most businesses hire & pay people without having a say in the matter. Whatever. Believe what you want.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

Brisebois is a strong candidate for a GM's job whether there is a language requirement or not. But that's the key, if there is no requirement he's one candidate among several, if there is a language requirement then he's pretty much the only sensible option. We saw the same thing last time around, Bergevin was a strong candidate, and several teams had him on their short list of potential candidates. In MTL, he was the only good option since the other options were clown candidates like McGuire.

The truth is we as fans know very little about who would make a good GM, as we don't know what the strength and flaws of the different candidates actually are. If they've never been in charge we probably don't even know much about their team building philosophy. The only way to get a good idea on those things is to interview the person.

As for the rest of the NHL going with the anglo instead of the franco, that sounds like BS. Plenty of Francophone coachs/GMs were given opportunities by other teams, you really think they all faced discrimination? So when Colorado hired Roy, he got the job despite Sakic having a preference for an anglo? Give me a break.

Can someone explain to me why Pierre McGuire is considered by so many here to be a joke. I mean you said yourself that we, as fans, don’t know who a good GM would be so why are we so certain about McGuire?

To me, Pierre McGuire seems as good as a candidate as any. The way he presents his ideas might not be to your liking but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make a capable GM.

 

[Belial]

Can someone explain to me why Pierre McGuire is considered by so many here to be a joke. I mean you said yourself that we, as fans, don’t know who a good GM would be so why are we so certain about McGuire?

To me, Pierre McGuire seems as good as a candidate as any. The way he presents his ideas might not be to your liking but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make a capable GM.

"Mete will be destroyed by the end of October." Pierre McGuire.

 

[Sorinth]

Can someone explain to me why Pierre McGuire is considered by so many here to be a joke. I mean you said yourself that we, as fans, don’t know who a good GM would be so why are we so certain about McGuire?

To me, Pierre McGuire seems as good as a candidate as any. The way he presents his ideas might not be to your liking but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make a capable GM.

It's not just how he presents his ideas but his actual ideas. He hated the Price pick, he thought we should trade Subban to the Oilers in order to get Yakupov, the list of bad ideas that he's suggested are simply too much.

Granted he might be mostly trying to be provocative and do something completely different when in charge. But I doubt it would be that different.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

"Mete will be destroyed by the end of October." Pierre McGuire.

If other GMs were analysts and had to speak through the media all the time, they would get some predictions wrong too. Here is an interesting fact, Bob McKenzie is a respected analyst on TSN who has never been wrong. Maybe he should be our GM. The reason why McKenzie is never wrong is because he doesn’t make predictions. I’m not going to knock on McGuire for putting himself out there and stating his opinion on subjects where others are afraid to.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

It's not just how he presents his ideas but his actual ideas. He hated the Price pick, he thought we should trade Subban to the Oilers in order to get Yakupov, the list of bad ideas that he's suggested are simply too much.

Granted he might be mostly trying to be provocative and do something completely different when in charge. But I doubt it would be that different.

He hated the Price pick because we had Jose Theodore at the time and it made complete sense. And maybe he had a sense of where the league was going in that it was better to build through centres than goalies. I didn’t like the Price pick either. Heck I’ve always maintained, even in retrospect, that we should have taken Kopitar.

I don’t remember the Subban for Yakupov thing but I seem to remember him coming to the defence of Subban since. He was ripping on Bergevin for bridging Subban.

Being a good GM is tough, but all I’m saying is don’t judge a book by its cover, or in McGuire’s case, his way of presenting his ideas.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Julien didn't get his from the Oilers, He got it from the Habs.

He was their AHL coach with the Bulldogs before we hired him to be head coach.

 

[groovejuice]

One interesting thing to consider is that the the percentage of francophones in coaching and management in the NHL is much greater by a large margin, than the percentage of francophones in North America even if you only include US states where hockey is played competitively.

In other words, it's positively disproportionate.

 

[Whitesnake]

Brisebois is a strong candidate for a GM's job whether there is a language requirement or not. But that's the key, if there is no requirement he's one candidate among several, if there is a language requirement then he's pretty much the only sensible option. We saw the same thing last time around, Bergevin was a strong candidate, and several teams had him on their short list of potential candidates. In MTL, he was the only good option since the other options were clown candidates like McGuire.

The truth is we as fans know very little about who would make a good GM, as we don't know what the strength and flaws of the different candidates actually are. If they've never been in charge we probably don't even know much about their team building philosophy. The only way to get a good idea on those things is to interview the person.

As for the rest of the NHL going with the anglo instead of the franco, that sounds like BS. Plenty of Francophone coachs/GMs were given opportunities by other teams, you really think they all faced discrimination? So when Colorado hired Roy, he got the job despite Sakic having a preference for an anglo? Give me a break.

Sounds like BS 'cause that's what you want you believe. How about you start giving me the PLENTY names of francos coachs and GM's that were given the opporutnity? How can it be BS and you will have all the trouble in the world to find me names? And while it might not be always negative discrimation, it's always positive ones. People will hire people they know.

 

[dinodebino]

It used to be that franco coaches were only picked by franco GM. No the case anymore.

BUT franco GMs do tend to favor franco coaches. BriseBois with Groulx and Dorion with Boucher are the latest examples. Although you could easily argue that they were sone of the best candidates available.

 

[Sorinth]

He hated the Price pick because we had Jose Theodore at the time and it made complete sense. And maybe he had a sense of where the league was going in that it was better to build through centres than goalies. I didn’t like the Price pick either. Heck I’ve always maintained, even in retrospect, that we should have taken Kopitar.

I don’t remember the Subban for Yakupov thing but I seem to remember him coming to the defence of Subban since. He was ripping on Bergevin for bridging Subban.

Being a good GM is tough, but all I’m saying is don’t judge a book by its cover, or in McGuire’s case, his way of presenting his ideas.

Theodore was already showing signs of not being the superstar goalie we thought he was. So even if his borderline racist comment was because we already had Theodore he was wrong.

You can google the Subban stuff, he had suggested Subban + the 3rd overall for the 1st overall.

But those are just some obvious examples, he is always saying dumb stuff and ends up with egg on his face even if he wouldn't admit it. There's a reason he's on TV and not still working for an NHL team.

 

[dinodebino]

I don't know all the available candidates for a GM position. I do think BriseBois is part of what some here call 'the new wave' of brlliant minds in hockey. I can't even figure out why they let him go in the first place.

 

[Sorinth]

Sounds like BS 'cause that's what you want you believe. How about you start giving me the PLENTY names of francos coachs and GM's that were given the opporutnity? How can it be BS and you will have all the trouble in the world to find me names? And while it might not be always negative discrimation, it's always positive ones. People will hire people they know.

Colorado gave Patrick Roy his first NHL job
Ottawa gave Alain Vigneault his first NHL job
Chicago gave our very own Marc Bergevin his first NHL job
St Louis gave Jacques Martin his first NHL job
Tampa gave Guy Boucher his first NHL job
Colorado gave Bob Hartley his first NHL job
Chicago gave Stephane Waite his first NHL job
Colorado gave Sylvain Lefebvre his first NHL job


How many more names do I have to list?

If you're going to claim that there is a bias show some actual evidence.

 

[Whitesnake]

Colorado gave Patrick Roy his first NHL job
Ottawa gave Alain Vigneault his first NHL job
Chicago gave our very own Marc Bergevin his first NHL job
St Louis gave Jacques Martin his first NHL job
Tampa gave Guy Boucher his first NHL job
Colorado gave Bob Hartley his first NHL job
Chicago gave Stephane Waite his first NHL job
Colorado gave Sylvain Lefebvre his first NHL job


How many more names do I have to list?

If you're going to claim that there is a bias show some actual evidence.

You know that I was talking about head coach and GM right? I guess that wasn't clear enough but that is what I was talking about. Just like Team Canada when it's always tougher to give the head coach position to a Q coach....You want evidence? How many franco GM's and franco head coach right now? Or last year? Or the year before?

Yeah it's a little easier nowadays to find assistant coaches in the NHL and AHL coaches too like for Pascal Vincent, Benoit Groulx and so on....Don't worry, I know those names....But the higher positions in hockey? There would hve been more guys in those positions if their own friends would have also be in higher positions.

 

[Runner77]

I don't know all the available candidates for a GM position. I do think BriseBois is part of what some here call 'the new wave' of brlliant minds in hockey. I can't even figure out why they let him go in the first place.

Already, when Molson was conducting the hiring process that led to Bergevin, BriseBois's name had come up. Safe to say that he'd be one of the main candidates this time around, unless for some unforeseen reason, Stevie Y might not grant permission. I don't think that happens too often, most GMs don't stand in the way of an assistant's career advancement opportunities.

Plus, he has that muted, rational, cerebral demeanor that would suit perfectly with Geoff's corporate persona.

 

[sandviper]

Already, when Molson was conducting the hiring process that led to Bergevin, BriseBois's name had come up. Safe to say that he'd be one of the main candidates this time around, unless for some unforeseen reason, Stevie Y might not grant permission. I don't think that happens to often, most GMs don't stand in the way of an assistant's career advancement opportunities.

Plus, he has that muted, rational, cerebral demeanor that would suit perfectly with Geoff's corporate persona.

Got to think BriseBois is at the top of the list.

 

[The Great Weal]

I hope someone hires Roy soon so he won't come here.