Confirmed with Link: Nemec going, going, gone…to Calgary (for two future firsts and a second rounder)

[Devils731]

his defensive failures will now conveniently be blamed on being on a bad team

tales as old as time

For me, Nemec is at his best when he’s given the most freedom to freestyle. The more freestyling he does, the more inspired moment you get.

The defense in the defensive zone is bad with or without freedom, so you have to give him freedom to at least also get the unique plays he can bring.

I don’t know how much freedom Calgary is going to give its players next year but I think that will contribute a fair amount to how well he performs next year.

 

[Nubmer6]

I'm prepared for nothing in nemecs results to meaningfully change (or for them to get worse), but him to be getting 23 minutes a night and PP1 time leading a bad unit and so the narrative will be he's suddenly broken out.

In his defense, his PP1 time was years ago.

 

[CalamityX23]

I take it you haven’t watch Nemec play then? Dude is a Will Butcher/Ty Smith hybrid.

I’d take Dougie at 9mil over Nemec at 9mil any day of the week.

not the first time someone would reply along the lines of "you haven't seen Nemec play"

I did and have, the guy/kid is still growing and learning and never had a stable approach given to him.

Since he never had the last name Hughes, he wasn't given the long leash to recover and learn from his mistakes.

I think he still has more GWGs than Luke and shown more prone to be healthy than his fellow teammate but again, the curse of the last name... never had a quality chance.

 

[Devils Trap]

not the first time someone would reply along the lines of "you haven't seen Nemec play"

I did and have, the guy/kid is still growing and learning and never had a stable approach given to him.

Since he never had the last name Hughes, he wasn't given the long leash to recover and learn from his mistakes.

I think he still has more GWGs than Luke and shown more prone to be healthy than his fellow teammate but again, the curse of the last name... never had a quality chance.

Sorry but this is just false. He had his chance and sucked. Thats why Luke got more leash, cause he showed potential

 

[CalamityX23]

Again, I’ll reiterate. This team has stunk for several years, years in which Nemec was part of that group. I have a hard time feeling any which way about any of these players getting moved. You’d need to provide me with some overwhelming evidence that shows we are a worse team without him.

So we trade Jack, Luke, Nico and Bratt????

 

[CalamityX23]

Sorry but this is just false. He had his chance and sucked. Thats why Luke got more leash, cause he showed potential

Luke had as much or more defensive inefficiencies for comparsion between the two. Luke continued to play more the next night/games etc where as Nemec got benched more often.

Yes promise is on Luke's side but Nemec had promise too or else why did they select him #2OA?

 

[Devils Trap]

Luke had as much or more defensive inefficiencies for comparsion between the two. Luke continued to play more the next night/games etc where as Nemec got benched more often.

Yes promise is on Luke's side but Nemec had promise too or else why did they select him #2OA?

Luke has shown more defensive prowess then Nemec has. Keefe has seen it so he trusts him more.

Also doesnt help that we have had so many RHDs and no LHDs. Luke / Nemec dont take up the same ice time

 

[CalamityX23]

Luke has shown more defensive prowess then Nemec has. Keefe has seen it so he trusts him more.

Also doesnt help that we have had so many RHDs and no LHDs. Luke / Nemec dont take up the same ice time

yea that's truth, it came down to numbers game for both the RHD and how much money to put in the D group...

Personally, and i'm no hockey coach or anything, I haven't seen the greatest defensive display from Luke since day 1 but i know/hope he can be that cause we need it.

Same with Nemec, he makes his mistakes but has shown he can. He just needed more time and sadly I guess we were up against the clock? plus his salary demands were probably the tipping point

 

[Nocashstyle]

not the first time someone would reply along the lines of "you haven't seen Nemec play"

I did and have, the guy/kid is still growing and learning and never had a stable approach given to him.

Since he never had the last name Hughes, he wasn't given the long leash to recover and learn from his mistakes.

I think he still has more GWGs than Luke and shown more prone to be healthy than his fellow teammate but again, the curse of the last name... never had a quality chance.

It was obviously a joke.

Either way, the dude just isn’t very good and his ceiling is not as high as Luke’s.

 

[RoastBeeph]

Coming back to this thread after getting some sleep and feeling like I hate this trade. FU sunny for trading nemec and keeping Hamilton.

Nemec had much more trade value than Hamilton. Calgary doesn’t give up that same package for Hamilton (probably wouldn’t have been interested at all given his age and current contract).

If we keep Nemec, there goes $7M to $9M of cap space every year. He isn’t worth that kind of money. With the freed up payroll flexibility, Sunny has more freedom to go after players that we need more, like a goalie hopefully.

 

[JimEIV]

I really don't think there is a significant difference between 150 and 200 games for a young defender, this is just something you've made up.

It's not something I made up, it's a long time believe by many hockey people. I first heard in the 1990's in an interview with Larry Robinson... I again heard it from Scott Stevens in person. I also heard Lou make similar references many times....but it's been repeated many many times.

It's widely talked about just Google it.



Dale Talon: "In my opinion it takes defencemen 300 games to become totally comfortable"

Q&A with former Florida Panthers GM Dale Tallon

Dale Tallon played a key role in building up both the Chicago Blackhawks before their championship years, and the Florida Panthers before their young core took off.

www.sportsnet.ca

"The "200-game mark" is widely accepted in NHL circles as the standard threshold for a defenseman to fully adjust to the pace, physical demands, and tactical complexities of the league. Prior to this milestone, blueliners are largely learning the ropes and are prone to developmental growing pains."

"The 200-game (or roughly \(2.5\) full regular seasons) threshold acts as a vital developmental anchor in the NHL. It represents the point where a blueliner has endured enough repetitions against elite competition to build the spatial awareness and situational recognition needed to consistently mitigate risk in the defensive zone."


Breakout Threshold (BT) – Using Career Games Played to Determine Breakout Potential. Dobber Hockey

Breakout Threshold (BT) – Using Career Games Played to Determine Breakout Potential

Co-written by Mat Porter *Usually posted in the Fantasy Guide, but moving forward the Fantasy Guide will link here for reference. Order the Fantasy Guide here. Back in 1997, in a fourth-year university Mathematics class project, I analyzed 15 years of data to

dobberhockey.com

"Some skilled defensemen of average size may also use this 200-game BT as well.

Bigger defensemen and exceptionally-sized forwards need 400 NHL regular-season games. We define 'exceptional' here as 5-9, or 170 pounds or less, on the small side, while on the bigger end we use 6-3, 215 pounds, or more."

 

[Devils Trap]

yea that's truth, it came down to numbers game for both the RHD and how much money to put in the D group...

Personally, and i'm no hockey coach or anything, I haven't seen the greatest defensive display from Luke since day 1 but i know/hope he can be that cause we need it.

Same with Nemec, he makes his mistakes but has shown he can. He just needed more time and sadly I guess we were up against the clock? plus his salary demands were probably the tipping point

Luke in 2024 was borderline #1 Pair type numbers

 

[Devs3cups]

View attachment 1258629

Luke in 2024 was borderline #1 Pair type numbers

How hopeful are we he can turn into this consistently? Luke's success is easily a top 3 thing that needs to happen for this team to be any good.

 

[Devils Trap]

How hopeful are we he can turn into this consistently? Luke's success is easily a top 3 thing that needs to happen for this team to be any good.

I think the tools are there. Ive been told hes been super focused on a full offseason of work and he was pretty embarassed by the end of the year.

Think it will be a real turning point

 

[Triumph]

It's not something I made up, it's a long time believe by many hockey people. I first heard in the 1990's in an interview with Larry Robinson... I again heard it from Scott Stevens in person. I also heard Lou make similar references many times....but it's been repeated many many times.

It's widely talked about just Google it.



Dale Talon: "In my opinion it takes defencemen 300 games to become totally comfortable"

Q&A with former Florida Panthers GM Dale Tallon

Dale Tallon played a key role in building up both the Chicago Blackhawks before their championship years, and the Florida Panthers before their young core took off.

www.sportsnet.ca

"The "200-game mark" is widely accepted in NHL circles as the standard threshold for a defenseman to fully adjust to the pace, physical demands, and tactical complexities of the league. Prior to this milestone, blueliners are largely learning the ropes and are prone to developmental growing pains."

"The 200-game (or roughly \(2.5\) full regular seasons) threshold acts as a vital developmental anchor in the NHL. It represents the point where a blueliner has endured enough repetitions against elite competition to build the spatial awareness and situational recognition needed to consistently mitigate risk in the defensive zone."


Breakout Threshold (BT) – Using Career Games Played to Determine Breakout Potential. Dobber Hockey

Breakout Threshold (BT) – Using Career Games Played to Determine Breakout Potential

Co-written by Mat Porter *Usually posted in the Fantasy Guide, but moving forward the Fantasy Guide will link here for reference. Order the Fantasy Guide here. Back in 1997, in a fourth-year university Mathematics class project, I analyzed 15 years of data to

dobberhockey.com

"Some skilled defensemen of average size may also use this 200-game BT as well.

Bigger defensemen and exceptionally-sized forwards need 400 NHL regular-season games. We define 'exceptional' here as 5-9, or 170 pounds or less, on the small side, while on the bigger end we use 6-3, 215 pounds, or more."

You're posting links from fantasy hockey guides. It's just all made up stuff. That's not to say defensemen don't improve as they age - they typically do. They just go from good to great, usually. Players very rarely go from bad to excellent. This idea that you can't judge a D before 200 games - sure you can. Now there's the occasional case of a Stralman or Forsling where a guy gets pigeonholed as not being good enough offensively and teams miss that he's maybe actually good at other stuff. That's very rare in the case of high-drafted D.

Just think of all the Devils over the last 10+ years - Merrill, Gelinas, Larsson, Severson - and hell, think about Will Butcher and Ty Smith in there, two guys whose best seasons were arguably their rookie year - did any of them really get better after game 200? Larsson, maybe, he started to move the puck quicker and less precisely and turned into an average D. Gelinas fell off before 200 games, didn't even manage to get there. Merrill was what he was, a back-pairing D. Severson just kept on doing his thing.

Nemec might fix his issues and become a top-pair guy. I just would not be counting on it.

 

[CalamityX23]

It was obviously a joke.

Either way, the dude just isn’t very good and his ceiling is not as high as Luke’s.

my bad! LOL

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Luke had as much or more defensive inefficiencies for comparsion between the two. Luke continued to play more the next night/games etc where as Nemec got benched more often.

Yes promise is on Luke's side but Nemec had promise too or else why did they select him #2OA?

Are you really asking that LMAO

 

[MasterofGrond]

Guys with defense as bad as Nemec's just don't completely turn it around very often. He's probably always going to be a liability defensively. Now, how much of a liability he ends up being (because there's a fairly wide range of outcomes) is going to be what determines if he's a good offensive specialist that can outscore the warts on the defensive end or back in Europe in 5 years. I just don't think he's ever going to be a #1, and i'm not sure we need an all offense dart throw at #2D through #7D

 

[Fig]

A little bit of a strange question if it's OK, but how does Nemec compare to a dman like Severson from a stylistic strength and weakness and frustration POV? Not close?

Flames have plenty of experience with rover like dmen, but those dmen were always smooth skating and basically elite skaters which Nemec doesn't have. I've been thinking the end goal for Nemec is closer to emulating someone like Andersson/Weegar.

I don't expect you guys to know a lot about Andersson and Weegar, but I did somewhat keep tabs on Severson for a while. A few of you might have good insights about him, so I'd be kinda curious to try and understand Nemec a bit more via that comparative lens of when Severson was just starting to try and develop through the Devil's system.

Thanks. Sorry if it's not allowed.

 

[Devils Trap]

A little bit of a strange question if it's OK, but how does Nemec compare to a dman like Severson from a stylistic strength and weakness and frustration POV? Not close?

Flames have plenty of experience with rover like dmen, but those dmen were always smooth skating and basically elite skaters which Nemec doesn't have. I've been thinking the end goal for Nemec is closer to emulating someone like Andersson/Weegar.

I don't expect you guys to know a lot about Andersson and Weegar, but I did somewhat keep tabs on Severson for a while. A few of you might have good insights about him, so I'd be kinda curious to try and understand Nemec a bit more via that comparative lens of when Severson was just starting to try and develop through the Devil's system.

Thanks. Sorry if it's not allowed.

I think Severson is better defensively and had a better shot, but prob very similar in terms of puck skills.

Severson always was great when he played weaker 3rd pair minutes, he dominated but struggled with tougher assignments.

I dont think its the worse comparison, cause both struggled with turnovers and defensive lapses

 

[MasterofGrond]

I think the main difference between Severson and Nemec defensively is that Severson was, from shift to shift pretty good defensively, he would just have a catastrophic breakdown ocasionally.

Nemec just doesn't play defense well.

Now, on the other hand Nemec has far more WOW factor offensively, he can do things Severson never could, so there's a tradeoff there. If you could get Severson level defense out of Nemec while not neutering the offense, I think that's close to a best case scenario for him, and you'd have gotten a great deal in the trade.

 

[Fig]

I think Severson is better defensively and had a better shot, but prob very similar in terms of puck skills.

Severson always was great when he played weaker 3rd pair minutes, he dominated but struggled with tougher assignments.

I dont think its the worse comparison, cause both struggled with turnovers and defensive lapses

How was the difference in skating between the two in their early career? Was Severson a relatively steady player early in his career? Or was he kinda up and down on a nightly basis?

I've met Severson's aunt and based on her description he seemed like the type of guy whose ups and downs could also be amplified via emotion. He also seemed like the type of guy who really enjoyed building momentum and then riding it.

One of the reasons I ask is because our coach Huska was literally Severson's coach in Kelowna. If the two players have enough similarities, it's something to be extra optimistic about for Nemec's development. I personally would be happy if Nemec ends up as a solid #3.

 

[Killing Joke]

Luke had as much or more defensive inefficiencies for comparsion between the two. Luke continued to play more the next night/games etc where as Nemec got benched more often.

Yes promise is on Luke's side but Nemec had promise too or else why did they select him #2OA?

Because the GM that was fired is a f***ing moron who can't evaluate talent?

Holtz, Stilman, Silayev, Cotter, MacDermid. List goes on and on.

 

[Fig]

I think the main difference between Severson and Nemec defensively is that Severson was, from shift to shift pretty good defensively, he would just have a catastrophic breakdown ocasionally.

Nemec just doesn't play defense well.

Now, on the other hand Nemec has far more WOW factor offensively, he can do things Severson never could, so there's a tradeoff there. If you could get Severson level defense out of Nemec while not neutering the offense, I think that's close to a best case scenario for him, and you'd have gotten a great deal in the trade.

Hmm... interesting. That's giving me Zadorov and Hamilton vibes for guys we'd need to cover a lot more. IIRC we pairing Hamilton with Gio who then did all the defensive lifting so that Hamilton could run free on our top pairing.

Zadorov we paired with a stay at home D in Gudbranson to isolate those types of break downs. Zadorov had good skating, but when he'd go all ZadORRov on us, he'd get caught pretty deep.

Parekh has similar concerns, but he's a RHS LD. Weegar would go into slumps and do similar things. It seems like something the team would be familiar with and know how to address without having to figure out a new playbook.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[BenedictGomez]

I'm kind of shocked the opinion on the Flames board is almost unanimous that Nemec will immediately slot in on the first-pairing.

Is Calgary's defense really that bad, or do they not realize Nemec isn't ready for #1 NHL defenseman responsibilities?