Proposal: Necas for Matheson & 26th

[Chan790]

Matheson had more points as a D on a completely dogshit team than the "premier top 6 forward" Necas, but somehow Necas is worth so much more than Matheson PLUS a 1st.

Yup. He is. Funny how these things go sometimes. It's fine that Montreal might not want to pay that price, I'd rather we ship him out west.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Matheson had more points as a D on a completely dogshit team than the "premier top 6 forward" Necas, but somehow Necas is worth so much more than Matheson PLUS a 1st.

Some seriously deluded people in here.

Control and position of a player matters.

Team needs also in play here too.

Reading is tough

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The league sees through point production from defensemen if actual defense isn't up to par. Barrie was traded as a cap dump last year and Nashville couldn't find a trade him this season. Gostisbehere was dealt for a 3rd as a rental in 23 and then squeezed into a 1 year deal last Summer. The league caught on to Klingberg's decline and squeezed him hard. DeAngelo finished +30 (!) in 21-22 and pulled just $10 mil on a contract with Philadelphia. Gustafsson was unable to parlay his 60 point season into anything higher than a $3 mil cap hit.

I don't watch enough of Matheson to comment on his defense as Montreal is bad team not worth watching. My point is just that 60 points doesn't mean much in isolation.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The league sees through point production from defensemen if actual defense isn't up to par. Barrie was traded as a cap dump last year and Nashville couldn't find a trade him this season. Gostisbehere was dealt for a 3rd as a rental in 23 and then squeezed into a 1 year deal last Summer. The league caught on to Klingberg's decline and squeezed him hard. DeAngelo finished +30 (!) in 21-22 and pulled just $10 mil on a contract with Philadelphia. Gustafsson was unable to parlay his 60 point season into anything higher than a $3 mil cap hit.

I don't watch enough of Matheson to comment on his defense as Montreal is bad team not worth watching. My point is just that 60 points doesn't mean much in isolation.

Reminds me of a certain Hans fan trying to convince me back in around 2017 that Beaulieu was not that far off from Slavin because he had 28 points to Slavin's 34 that year. It was only 1 fan though, not pervasive.

 

[pth2]

The league sees through point production from defensemen if actual defense isn't up to par. Barrie was traded as a cap dump last year and Nashville couldn't find a trade him this season. Gostisbehere was dealt for a 3rd as a rental in 23 and then squeezed into a 1 year deal last Summer. The league caught on to Klingberg's decline and squeezed him hard. DeAngelo finished +30 (!) in 21-22 and pulled just $10 mil on a contract with Philadelphia. Gustafsson was unable to parlay his 60 point season into anything higher than a $3 mil cap hit.

I don't watch enough of Matheson to comment on his defense as Montreal is bad team not worth watching. My point is just that 60 points doesn't mean much in isolation.

That's a lot of words to just say "I don't watch Habs games. I know nothing of Matheson".

 

[dirtydanglez]

matheson is the new halak + ryder. hes a decent piece but not valuable enough for the players hes usually included in trades for.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

That's a lot of words to just say "I don't watch Habs games. I know nothing of Matheson".

This guy?

 

[Lockin17]

The value is there but the fit is not.
As to be a 3 way trade involving a Goalie going to NJ

 

[samsagat]

MTL offense was abysmal the last two years.

And MTL defense was loaded in youngsters.

So basically, Matheson was used way too much and I have the impression MSL gave him carte blanche offensively.

So he played like a loose canon, a loose canon that was used too much and became teared down, he looked tired mentally. So his decision making was impacted.

Take away 2-3 min from his average 25, plus give him a proper defensive zone system (MSL man on man defensive system is a mess), and Matheson will be a solid all around Dman.

As he has it all, the size, the skating and the skills.

If he was used properly, he could be a solid 40ish pts defenseman that can do it all.

 

[Chan790]

matheson is the new halak + ryder. hes a decent piece but not valuable enough for the players hes usually included in trades for.

It's not a value problem here, the Canes simply don't need a LHD.

They need a defensive RHD, a RH 2C, goal scoring, and power forwards.

 

[Chan790]

The value is there but the fit is not.
As to be a 3 way trade involving a Goalie going to NJ

I don't think Carolina has any interest in helping NJ get a goalie and get better in a Necas trade. I mean maybe we'd trade you Andersen and replace him with a less expensive UFA 1B goalie...but you'd pay through the nose for it.

Also, where is Matheson going in your proposed 3-way?

 

[GrandmaCookie]

This thread is hilarious. Take it from a Habs fan, Matheson is a net negative.

Montreal fans have been shitting on him all season long about his poor defensive play.

The same fans that have a hard time trading anything of value and consider third pairing defenseman and B level prospect as untouchable.

If they are pushing a player down your throat, you can be certain that player is absolute shit.

I wouldn't take Matheson on my team for free.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

It's not a value problem here, the Canes simply don't need a LHD.

They need a defensive RHD, a RH 2C, goal scoring, and power forwards.

I don`t think Montreal as much to offer for those needs then:

Defensive RHD = David Savard
RH 2C = Jake Evans is a RHC but more of a 4C
goal scoring = Joel Armia scored 17 goal last year, Anderson scored 26 once (I guess he could fill the power forward role too)

Have your pick in this + the 26th pick for Necas, otherwise I don`t see a trade happening.

Maybe throw in a B prospect like Mesar or Farrell

 

[bleedgreen]

In a nutshell the easiest argument against this and Hab fans thoughts is to reverse the trade. If the Habs had Necas and he had played exactly the same to this point, and for some reason they had to move him would they accept this trade in return?

No. Not even close. There’d be 45 pages of vitriol against whoever offered it. Every Canes fan that tried to argue that the one good season Matheson just had changed his value into making this a good offer would be ridiculed mercilessly. There’d be five threads of Hab fans wanting to trade Necas for high first round draft picks and/or top prospects from every team, or packaging him with a second round pick for a player twice as good as Necas is in the first place. That player would not be 30.

 

[jfhabs]

This guy?

View attachment 883336

A chart showing you that tells you more about the chart than the player. Their model suck.

 

[jfhabs]

In a nutshell the easiest argument against this and Hab fans thoughts is to reverse the trade. If the Habs had Necas and he had played exactly the same to this point, and for some reason they had to move him would they accept this trade in return?

No. Not even close. There’d be 45 pages of vitriol against whoever offered it. Every Canes fan that tried to argue that the one good season Matheson just had changed his value into making this a good offer would be ridiculed mercilessly. There’d be five threads of Hab fans wanting to trade Necas for high first round draft picks and/or top prospects from every team, or packaging him with a second round pick for a player twice as good as Necas is in the first place. That player would not be 30.

Matheson has been good for 3 straight seasons on 2 different teams. Don't think he's worth Necas in a vacuum, but still a valuable asset.

Personally I don't really want to pay big bucks to another perimeter player in our top 6 , we already have Caufield. Necas might be 6-2, but he's just as soft.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

A chart showing you that tells you more about the chart than the player. Their model suck.

Sure.

 

[NotOpie]

Matheson had more points as a D on a completely dogshit team than the "premier top 6 forward" Necas, but somehow Necas is worth so much more than Matheson PLUS a 1st.

Some seriously deluded people in here.

1 season does not make him a 60+ point guy. Up until then, he's never cracked 35 points.

Covid shortened season, Necas scores at a 63 point pace, last year he popped 71 points, and this season 53 points with significantly less 1st unit PP time.

This trade is not even in the realm of possibility.

 

[bleedgreen]

Matheson has been good for 3 straight seasons on 2 different teams. Don't think he's worth Necas in a vacuum, but still a valuable asset.

Personally I don't really want to pay big bucks to another perimeter player in our top 6 , we already have Caufield. Necas might be 6-2, but he's just as soft.

Would you do the trade in reverse? Would you trade Necas for Matheson? No one is saying Matheson isn’t a valuable asset. He’s just not what you would trade Necas for. He may have been good for other seasons but he’s got one 60 pt season and one other productive one.

I get not wanting Necas either. That’s fine. I’d prefer to keep him but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

 

[Danarqhy]

1 season does not make him a 60+ point guy. Up until then, he's never cracked 35 points.

Covid shortened season, Necas scores at a 63 point pace, last year he popped 71 points, and this season 53 points with significantly less 1st unit PP time.

This trade is not even in the realm of possibility.

Scoring at a certain pace and actually doing it throughout a whole 82-game season are two completely different things. Funny how you left off that Matheson scored at a 58 points pace last year but included Necas' pace.

Necas had 71 points last year but his totals were completely reduced this year, lack of PP might be attributed to the coach just not trusting him enough on the PP. And on top of that he kind of sucks defensively and has tunnel vision offensively and is not a center.

He's a top 6 winger but probably more of a top 9 on a serious contender as he has many question marks about his overall game. The whole reason why he's on the market anyway is because the Canes don't want to pay him money as a legit top 6 because they don't believe he brings enough to the table, so you're relying on suckering some other team into believing him that they're getting a perennial 60/70 point guy when he's only done that once in his career and he's already 25.

TBH this trade doesn't even make sense for the Habs because they are still rebuilding and Necas is a complimentary secondary piece, he is not a driver. Accelerating a rebuild for a guy with so many holes and question marks in his game is exactly the way you botch a rebuild.

 

[BLNY]

Who says no?

Given that Hughes has said they're happy to go with the centres they have, I'm going to assume Hughes says no.

 

[IIxGURUxII]

Interesting how the Habs fans in this thread have a ton a value for their version of Tyson Barrie .. but the others like him are valued so low ...

 

[NotOpie]

Scoring at a certain pace and actually doing it throughout a whole 82-game season are two completely different things. Funny how you left off that Matheson scored at a 58 points pace last year but included Necas' pace.

Necas had 71 points last year but his totals were completely reduced this year, lack of PP might be attributed to the coach just not trusting him enough on the PP. And on top of that he kind of sucks defensively and has tunnel vision offensively and is not a center.

He's a top 6 winger but probably more of a top 9 on a serious contender as he has many question marks about his overall game. The whole reason why he's on the market anyway is because the Canes don't want to pay him money as a legit top 6 because they don't believe he brings enough to the table, so you're relying on suckering some other team into believing him that they're getting a perennial 60/70 point guy when he's only done that once in his career and he's already 25.

TBH this trade doesn't even make sense for the Habs because they are still rebuilding and Necas is a complimentary secondary piece, he is not a driver. Accelerating a rebuild for a guy with so many holes and question marks in his game is exactly the way you botch a rebuild.

I get what you're saying....and appreciate you skepticism. However, I wonder just how much you've actually watched Matin Necas play.

He's a human zone entry machine, has a great one-timer, and is likely one of the 5 fastest skaters in the NHL. What he isn't is a fit for Rod Brind' Amour's system. However, if the Canes end up keeping him, there are significant rumblings about an increased role this season.

All of that said, it's pretty ridiculous to characterize Necas as only a Top 9 winger....anywhere. But to paraphrase the Big Lebowski, "...that's only your opinion man". There's a reason why there's so much interest league-wide in the potential trade. Those of us who watch him cringe at his occasional lapses (often from trying to do too much) and marvel at his offensive chops (you're not trading for Marty for his defense, albeit it's a bit improved this past season).

I personally hope we work something out with him as I believe he's one of the 4 best forwards on the team.

 

[jfhabs]

Would you do the trade in reverse? Would you trade Necas for Matheson? No one is saying Matheson isn’t a valuable asset. He’s just not what you would trade Necas for. He may have been good for other seasons but he’s got one 60 pt season and one other productive one.

I get not wanting Necas either. That’s fine. I’d prefer to keep him but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

I don't know if you're getting a better return than that tbh. At the same time, teams never learn. Look at what Dubois got and how he performed after resigning. I would've liked to acquire him last year but the price paid on assets and the contract....no freaking way. Similar situation with Necas imo. I'd argue Dubois was more proven and played a premium position too.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't know if you're getting a better return than that tbh. At the same time, teams never learn. Look at what Dubois got and how he performed after resigning. I would've liked to acquire him last year but the price paid on assets and the contract....no freaking way. Similar situation with Necas imo. I'd argue Dubois was more proven and played a premium position too.

So what’s the answer? Always buy low?