Player Discussion Neal Pionk

[haveandare]

He's obviously flawed still but he's new to this level of play and I'm sure didn't expect to be seeing 20 minutes a game against OV and the like. He's in way over his head and playing like he's only in sort of over his head, so that's a pretty good outcome.

IMO he can likely be a fine middle pairing player going forward so long as he pays attention to working on his flaws - particularly exiting the zone with a crisp first past consistently. If he can do that, that's an excellent outcome for an undrafted free agent.

 

[The S5]

He's obviously flawed still but he's new to this level of play and I'm sure didn't expect to be seeing 20 minutes a game against OV and the like. He's in way over his head and playing like he's only in sort of over his head, so that's a pretty good outcome.

IMO he can likely be a fine middle pairing player going forward so long as he pays attention to working on his flaws - particularly exiting the zone with a crisp first past consistently. If he can do that, that's an excellent outcome for an undrafted free agent.

Honestly think this kid has second pairing, at a minimum, potential. He is just getting started and has all the tools to be very good.
What we as fans forget, is that there are a ton of 1st pairing defense men around the league that have major flaws in their game. We tend to look more closely at our own players and its very difficult to just look at stats/analytics and make a player evaluation.

 

[Blueshirts777]

We tend to look more closely at our own players and its very difficult to just look at stats/analytics and make a player evaluation.

True but what do you think a new coach will do next year? As of now AV loves Pionk, a new coach may take one look at his corsi and shelve him next year depending on how analytic he is.

 

[Mike in Houston]

No. Staal has a NMC.

This I know. Doesn't stop the fanalysts with blue checkmarks on Twitter from saying it though.

 

[NYR713]

I think he's done a good job for being thrown into the fire. He makes some MAJOR gaffs, but he's still a rookie getting his feet wet and this is the best time to make mistakes... with nothing on the line.

I'm also reserving full judgement on any of the young guys until I see them under a different coach. Maybe when Dmen aren't expected to chase forwards all the way out to the blue line or there is any structure there to break out of a zone or not having the players constantly going backwards with the puck in their own zone, only to allow the opposing team to push a forecheck and turn the puck over... I just would like to see some of these guys be able to play in a more simplified system and see if they're any good.

 

[The S5]

True but what do you think a new coach will do next year? As of now AV loves Pionk, a new coach may take one look at his corsi and shelve him next year depending on how analytic he is.

I can't imagine any coach looks solely at analytics. They may use it to identify potential weaknesses in a players game and work to fix them, but not to make a determination their capability.

 

[Machinehead]

I can't imagine any coach looks solely at analytics. They may use it to identify potential weaknesses in a players game and work to fix them, but not to make a determination their capability.

I don't think there's any coach in the NHL that employs analytics as much as I would like.

What I'm hoping for is a real system that doesn't make everyone's corsi horrible.

 

[The Mouth]

This is not a good take. (And I like your podcast, btw). Pionk is looking good. I think he’s a keeper. Not just due to his skills but also his attitude and smarts.

Thanks for the kind words. If you listen to the Pod , then you know I have nothing but good things to say about Pionk. But please lets keep any evals in context of a lost season, thats all I'm saying. To compare or say he reminds you of Ryan Ellis or could can be seen as a 3 or 4 to me is way too early.

 

[ThirdEye]

Is Ellis really even that good? I know he's having a breakout season this year on the best team in league, but I've always viewed him as someone who's never really delivered on expectations. He had a whopping 17 points in his first 2 seasons (64 games) and just 27 the year after (when he was the same age as Pionk). Granted I haven't watched a ton of him as I don't catch a lot of Western conf. games, but I absolutely don't see why it's unreasonable to compare Pionk to him. Stature wise, Pionk's actually got 2 inches and 10 lbs on him already and will probably fill out some more

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

True but what do you think a new coach will do next year? As of now AV loves Pionk, a new coach may take one look at his corsi and shelve him next year depending on how analytic he is.

Gorton is doing the hiring (and let's not forget he gave AV an extension), so it's up to him to pick a coach who's system he wants the Rangers (and Hartford for that matter) to play.

I also doubt corsi will decide any player's fate on the Rangers as long as Sather is involved in running the organization.

 

[Machinehead]

Is Ellis really even that good? I know he's having a breakout season this year on the best team in league, but I've always viewed him as someone who's never really delivered on expectations. He had a whopping 17 points in his first 2 seasons (64 games) and just 27 the year after (when he was the same age as Pionk). Granted I haven't watched a ton of him as I don't catch a lot of Western conf. games, but I absolutely don't see why it's unreasonable to compare Pionk to him. Stature wise, Pionk's actually got 2 inches and 10 lbs on him already and will probably fill out some more

Ellis is excellent defensively.

It's unreasonable to compare Pionk to him today, because today, Pionk is abhorrent defensively.

 

[Rempe73]

Ellis is excellent defensively.

It's unreasonable to compare Pionk to him today, because today, Pionk is abhorrent defensively.

Evidence? He makes mistakes for sure, but for an offensive-minded defensman, as a rookie, playing top minutes against other team's top lines, he's solid at worst.

 

[Machinehead]

Evidence? He makes mistakes for sure, but for an offensive-minded defensman, as a rookie, playing top minutes against other team's top lines, he's solid at worst.

You don't want the evidence.

 

[egelband]

Honestly think this kid has second pairing, at a minimum, potential. He is just getting started and has all the tools to be very good.
What we as fans forget, is that there are a ton of 1st pairing defense men around the league that have major flaws in their game. We tend to look more closely at our own players and its very difficult to just look at stats/analytics and make a player evaluation.

I agree. It’s not just the measurables. I think he has The Moxie!

 

[egelband]

Thanks for the kind words. If you listen to the Pod , then you know I have nothing but good things to say about Pionk. But please lets keep any evals in context of a lost season, thats all I'm saying. To compare or say he reminds you of Ryan Ellis or could can be seen as a 3 or 4 to me is way too early.


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Yes. It definitely skews things being in a lost season. Garbage Time is not the best time to evaluate a player. But Pionk seems legit to me.
With a guy like Gilmour I watch with rose colored glasses, squinting, looking for positives. But Pionk jumps out at me.

 

[tradenashnow]

Pionk has some similarities to the way Stralman started his career. Stralman was smaller and was considered a defensive liability. Most teams didn't want him. Pionk on the other hand has been decent defensively. Which is amazing considering AV's system blows.

 

[Machinehead]

Pionk has some similarities to the way Stralman started his career. Stralman was smaller and was considered a defensive liability. Most teams didn't want him. Pionk on the other hand has been decent defensively. Which is amazing considering AV's system blows.

Young Stralman blows Young Pionk away defensively. Stralman was never at any point bad defensively in the NHL. What are you talking about?

Of all the bizarre Pionk comparisons, the Stralman one I keep seeing is by far the most bizarre.

Stralman was an understated but effective player discarded by teams because they expected a flashier player. Pionk doesn't know what country he's in 4 out of 5 times but the other 1 out of 5 he pulls off some Bobby Orr shit. They're exact opposites.

 

[kovazub94]

@Machinehead , you’re off base in your evaluation of Pionk. Where did you get this 4/5 times he is not making the right play? Cmon, Don’t think so (maybe you have a particular game in mind but even then I don’t think its right).

P.S. Out of all rookie defensemen this season Pionk has done better on a defensive side by a mile. If this is how you view Pionk I’m afraid to ask what you think about the rest (though it is hard to see a regular NHLer out of any of the rest, sans ADA)

 

[The Mouth]

Lest we forget Stralman started with the Leafs in 2007 and was traded twice in the 2009 off season and in 2010-11 failed a tryout with the Devils. This led him to becoming a Ranger. Sounds like some revisionist history going on with how great Stralman was defensively in his early years when it comes to Pionk progress.

 

[The Mouth]

@Machinehead , you’re off base in your evaluation of Pionk. Where did you get this 4/5 times he is not making the right play? Cmon, Don’t think so (maybe you have a particular game in mind but even then I don’t think its right).

P.S. Out of all rookie defensemen this season Pionk has done better on a defensive side by a mile. If this is how you view Pionk I’m afraid to ask what you think about the rest (though it is hard to see a regular NHLer out of any of the rest, sans ADA)

Just call Him Anthony Angelo. There is No D anywhere to be found with this guy.

 

[Matz03]

Young Stralman blows Young Pionk away defensively. Stralman was never at any point bad defensively in the NHL. What are you talking about?

Of all the bizarre Pionk comparisons, the Stralman one I keep seeing is by far the most bizarre.

Stralman was an understated but effective player discarded by teams because they expected a flashier player. Pionk doesn't know what country he's in 4 out of 5 times but the other 1 out of 5 he pulls off some Bobby Orr ****. They're exact opposites.

You think all those teams cut him loose because he wasn't flashy? That's probably more bizarre then the Stralman comparison itself. It's pretty obvious how you judge players and their defensive capability it's clearly though just a certain stat sheet and a single lens alone.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

You think all those teams cut him loose because he wasn't flashy? That's probably more bizarre then the Stralman comparison itself. It's pretty obvious how you judge players and their defensive capability it's clearly though just a certain stat sheet and a single lens alone.

Pretty sure he's just looking at his CF% as a means of determining how good defensively he was...like he's known to do a lot.

Failing to account for fact he (Stralman, 07-09) was a 60% Zone Start guy and only played 10 minutes of 5v5 per game vs Pionk whose a 38% zone start guy averaging 18+ minutes of 5v5 ice time per game.

galactic differences in their usage, can't even compare.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Stralman's early development isn't a good comp for Pionk, or any player for that matter.

Stralman had a mystery illness that severely hampered him physically, and flipped a switch when the Rangers medical staff properly treated it.

Stralman and family get a happily ever after with the Lightning

By the fall of 2011, Stralman was only able to get a training camp invite to New Jersey. The Rangers gave Stralman a chance, and he rejuvenated his career largely thanks to a team doctor finally being able to pinpoint his medical issue. He had scar tissue in his lungs, collecting mucus which became infected. Stralman was put on treatment for cystic fibrosis, which he doesn't have, but it made him a new man — and player.
"That has been, by far, the single most important day in my career," Stralman said. "That gave me the chance to battle back, stay healthy and give myself a chance to compete not just with everyone else, but not have to compete against my own body. Every cold doesn't end up in pneumonia. I was the player I knew I could be."

 

[kovazub94]

Just call Him Anthony Angelo. There is No D anywhere to be found with this guy.

lol

 

[Thirty One]

Lest we forget Stralman started with the Leafs in 2007 and was traded twice in the 2009 off season and in 2010-11 failed a tryout with the Devils. This led him to becoming a Ranger. Sounds like some revisionist history going on with how great Stralman was defensively in his early years when it comes to Pionk progress.

Not really. Most people didn't realize how good he was here until after he was gone.