Player Discussion Neal Pionk

[eco's bones]

DeAngelo is awful. He has no clue how t0 play defense. In 22 games, he's a -17 with 0 goals and 5 assists. While plus/minus can be misleading, not in his case.

Everyone's picking up minuses now and what's more the Rangers are going to lose a lot of games before now and the end of the season and those minuses are going to get a lot worse. If you're going to judge players solely on that--which can be a product of ice time and who you're sharing it with you're out to lunch.

 

[NYR Viper]

If any of them seem like a lock for next year it's DeAngelo. Saying that I think Tony needs to be cognizant of his defensive responsibilities and I think he plays best when he plays gritty. Taking on Simmonds yesterday might not be the wisest of moves but he will get respect from his teammates for that and the league will wake up to him more too if he continues to stick up for himself. It's kind of a Mathieu Schneider thing and Schneider turned into a very good player.

Pionk I think will have a good shot. Gilmour and Sproul probably not. The Rangers are going to need some veteran guys and more size and strength on their D one way or the other. They could use more edge as well.

Why don't you like Gilmour? I have been very pleased with his puck transporting abilities and his ability to join the rush. Sproul seems like a depth guy which is totally fine as he was acquired for Puempel

 

[Off Sides]

If it's a rebuild these are the types of players that could develop into something. Why not given them a shot? It's not super likely any of them turn out really good but the other options? Signing Bieksa, Oduya, Seidenberg, or something this off-season?

 

[tradenashnow]

I'm soooo tired of hearing about pucking moving. That sounds like the same nonsense AV preaches. Give me defenseman that can control the puck in the corners, clear the crease, be in the right place defensively, block shots and god forbid, actually throw a hit.

 

[eco's bones]

Why don't you like Gilmour? I have been very pleased with his puck transporting abilities and his ability to join the rush. Sproul seems like a depth guy which is totally fine as he was acquired for Puempel

It's more that I like Pionk and DeAngelo better. The Rangers defense is really green and with Gilmour and those other two it will be too small and defensively challenged. We're kind of getting a picture of what our defense looks like without a defensive anchor right now which is what McDonagh is and it's not pretty. We have to have guys we can play against top 6 players including teams that have physical top 6 players. It would be interesting to see the 6 we're playing against the Penguins right now.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm soooo tired of hearing about pucking moving. That sounds like the same nonsense AV preaches. Give me defenseman that can control the puck in the corners, clear the crease, be in the right place defensively, block shots and god forbid, actually throw a hit.

I think that is a team doesn't have guys back there who can effectively move the puck with speed up to the forwards they will not attack consistently. Also, those big guys from the past can't keep up with the forwards of today. The best way to play defense is to keep it out of your end.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's more that I like Pionk and DeAngelo better. The Rangers defense is really green and with Gilmour and those other two it will be too small and defensively challenged. We're kind of getting a picture of what our defense looks like without a defensive anchor right now which is what McDonagh is and it's not pretty. We have to have guys we can play against top 6 players including teams that have physical top 6 players. It would be interesting to see the 6 we're playing against the Penguins right now.

I agree, as far as the ranking for me, it would be ADA, Pionk, Gilmour, in that order. In saying that, I would be 110% fine seeing all three of those guys get consistent time in the top-6 moving forward. Skjei, Staal, Shattenkirk as the vets opposite them. Will they struggle a bit? Most likely.

Staal-ADA
Skjei-Pionk (I like the look of these two together)
Gilmour-Shattenkirk

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What is it that you don't like about ADA?

-17 with 5 assists in 22 games.

 

[Inferno]

-17 with 5 assists in 22 games.

He wasn't good to start the season..unfair to include those numbers...he's also playing with Holden who has been just dreadful...Ada is seeing...at a minimum 3 2 on1s a game...how many is Holden seeing? Zero? He's not getting caught up the ice and is constantly hung out to dry by his partner...he's moving the puck up the ice very efficiently and making so e really terrific passes that guys like....Holland or mccleod aren't doing anything with.

This is an eye test thing for me..but to me he's been our best defenseman since he was called up...and really to me it's not even been close.

 

[Fvital92]

He wasn't good to start the season..unfair to include those numbers...he's also playing with Holden who has been just dreadful...Ada is seeing...at a minimum 3 2 on1s a game...how many is Holden seeing? Zero? He's not getting caught up the ice and is constantly hung out to dry by his partner...he's moving the puck up the ice very efficiently and making so e really terrific passes that guys like....Holland or mccleod aren't doing anything with.

This is an eye test thing for me..but to me he's been our best defenseman since he was called up...and really to me it's not even been close.

Agreed 100%. I think the main reason this team is unwatchable right now is that we play 2 AHL lines almost half of the game.

 

[Inferno]

The thing I don't get is ppl talking about how he needs to focus more on his defensive play..am I watching the wrong player? He's almost never caught pinching in anymore...he's frequently the only man back defending odd man rushes...2 on 1s...3 on 1s...etc... He's picking his spots in the ozone and doing a good job of pulling the defenders up high and then putting the puck back down low...if anything is say his defensive side of the game has been much better than the offensive productions...but I'm writing that more off on his forwards who can't do squat with his passes.. Looks like our future #2 rhd.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He wasn't good to start the season..unfair to include those numbers...he's also playing with Holden who has been just dreadful...Ada is seeing...at a minimum 3 2 on1s a game...how many is Holden seeing? Zero? He's not getting caught up the ice and is constantly hung out to dry by his partner...he's moving the puck up the ice very efficiently and making so e really terrific passes that guys like....Holland or mccleod aren't doing anything with.

This is an eye test thing for me..but to me he's been our best defenseman since he was called up...and really to me it's not even been close.

Since he's returned, -13 and 4 points in 14 games. I'm fully aware the defense is a disaster, but I think his play has been iffy, at best. At this point in the season, it's an audition for a player like DeAngelo. Pionk, Gilmour, Sproul all have bad conditions for rookie defenseman, we can't shelter their minutes with this defense. I don't think he's been anywhere near as good as some say, but maybe you disagree.

 

[Inferno]

Since he's returned, -13 and 4 points in 14 games. I'm fully aware the defense is a disaster, but I think his play has been iffy, at best. At this point in the season, it's an audition for a player like DeAngelo. Pions, Gilmour, Sproul all have bad conditions for rookie defenseman, we can't shelter their minutes with this defense. I don't think he's been anywhere near as good as some day, but maybe you disagree.

agree to disagree.

 

[Off Sides]

Why not wait to make some conclusions?

This roster, this coaching, the goalies play of late, the partners, who they are facing but probably shouldn't be, it's all wrong.

I'm going with glimpses of talent more so than trying to make any conclusions.

 

[eco's bones]

Again with the minuses---when you've got a really raw inexperienced D with guys whose strengths are more towards offense than defense and you're chasing games they're going to be racking up the minuses. And FWIW Skjei and Holden have been caught up ice and out of position a lot too and they're the experienced guys. The Rangers chances to win any games from now on is prevalent on them not getting behind early. That means the forwards will all need to be alert defensively too and help out the D. When the team can keep the score down they have a much better chance of winning. Wait for openings and be opportunistic. That's a hard thing to do with the defense where it is right now.

 

[Mikos87]

I know the bar isn't all that high for some of you when it comes to prospects.

But call a spade for what it is:

ADA isn't really all that good defensively. He gets beat, doesn't close the gap, turns the puck over, and is in bad position.

Lots to work on with him, I think who he is as a personality is great for NY. I just want to see the reigns get loosened (Fire AV), but with that said, ADA has to prove that he can think the game well.

I'm not ready to call him an outright bust, but if you're seeing the what I'm seeing by this December... this isn't a guy you can win with.

Currently, ADA is just Ryan Murphy ++. IMO you're getting a Dan Boyle or a bust with him, and there won't be a middle ground.

 

[SA16]

Here's a list of some of the top defenders in terms of giveaways/60
1. Brent Burns
2. Jake Gardiner
3. John Carlson
4. Mike Green
6. Jeff Petry
8. Keith Yandle
11. Erik Karlsson
12. Ivan Provorov
13. John Klingberg
15. Kevin Shattenkirk
16. Aaron Ekblad
17. Kris Letang
18. Morgan Rielly
19. Nikita Zaitsev
20. P.K. Subban
21. Drew Doughty
22. Dustin Byfuglien
23. Justin Faulk
26. Zdeno Chara
29. Matt Niskanen
30. Torey Krug

So what's the big deal that he's giving the puck away? Almost all top defenseman give the puck away a lot. Because they try and make plays. If you don't give the puck away you're just somehow who provides no offense/transition and dumps it out for the most part.

Conversely the top 30 of guys who give the puck away the least include Hamhuis,Spurgeon,J. Johnson,Brodin,Bortuzzio,Santini,Suter,Pesce,J. Ryan,TVR,Coburn,Gunnarson,Stralman,Savard,Tanev,Scandella,Lovejoy,Girardi,Pietrangelo,Dekeyser,K. Miller,Nutivaara,Stone,Chychrun,Dumba,Braun,Nemeth,Bouwemeester,Barrie,Barberio.

The "giveaway" group is way stronger than the non-giveaway group. And there must also be something going on in Minnesota with strategy/tactics/offical scoring to have literally their entire top 4 defense be in that second group.

 

[Rangers in 7]

DeAngelo is awful. He has no clue how t0 play defense. In 22 games, he's a -17 with 0 goals and 5 assists. While plus/minus can be misleading, not in his case.

the team has been awful since his recall....I can guarantee most of this team is a minus in the last 15 games

 

[Rangers in 7]

I'm soooo tired of hearing about pucking moving. That sounds like the same nonsense AV preaches. Give me defenseman that can control the puck in the corners, clear the crease, be in the right place defensively, block shots and god forbid, actually throw a hit.

the game you want to play doesn't exist anymore....

 

[Mac n Gs]

ADA has been really good since his call-up in January. He's been getting some horrible luck in the offensive zone and the breakdowns that have happened leading to goals against for him haven't been his fault.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

ADA has been really good since his call-up in January. He's been getting some horrible luck in the offensive zone and the breakdowns that have happened leading to goals against for him haven't been his fault.

This is the player we traded for. I love it!

 

[Thirty One]

He has played with Brendan Smith and Nick Holden. Yeah the plus minus is a bad stat to use here

Smith is a plus player.

Put me down as not seeing it yet with DeAngelo, either.

 

[romba]

I'm soooo tired of hearing about pucking moving. That sounds like the same nonsense AV preaches. Give me defenseman that can control the puck in the corners, clear the crease, be in the right place defensively, block shots and god forbid, actually throw a hit.

I understand where you’re coming from after watching the Rangers this year. But even the guy you described would have trouble keeping his assignments in our system. Who hasn’t?

 

[mrmovies779]

ADA has been much better since his recall.Dare i say it,our 2nd best defenseman after Skjei.Considering the mess he's been thrown into,he has played very well.Pionk has played very well too.Smart and composed,doesnt try to do too much.Knows his limits.

 

[romba]

ADA has been much better since his recall.Dare i say it,our 2nd best defenseman after Skjei.Considering the mess he's been thrown into,he has played very well.Pionk has played very well too.Smart and composed,doesnt try to do too much.Knows his limits.

How has he looked in extended D zone play? I get that his skill set should lead to less D zone time but our team really loses their shit after 17 seconds hemmed in, it’d Be nice to have some poised players who can make the smart play in those situations.

Teams know you have to have patience in our zone, keep cycling calmly, and someone will free up in the slot momentarily lol. No need to always force high risk plays to covered guys that may turn into a good chance the other way, what a concept! if only the opposition always played man to man d too...