Player Discussion Neal Pionk: Part II

[Irishguy42]

You literally don't get it and can't do reading comprehension. And then you decided to write a whole lot of words that basically mean nothing.

Anyway, back to Pionk.

 

[Larrybiv]

I'm going through your history and unliking all your comments that I previously liked

Oh noooo Mr. Bill! Dont do that! Youre one of my faves! You have liked soooo many! You r my dude!

 

[East Coast Bias]

There's only one way to settle this debate..........play him.

I have my concerns about parts of his game but he's one of our top 3 RHD, and considering where we are right now, should be starting every night regardless. Let him and Tony D learn on the ice. Play them, coach them. We haven't had this luxury to let guys learn in game in awhile. Embrace it.

 

[ThirdEye]

Pionk is going to be our Krug, Ellis, Letang, Gostisbehere, etc... All very similar (small, skilled and good skaters) players that have been having a ton of success in the NHL lately. We were lucky to be the team that grabbed him

3-4 years from now our defense could be one of the best in the league if our prospects see it through. Skjei, Pionk, Miller, Hajek, Lundkvist, Rykov.... dyamn. Only a dream now and almost a certainty one or two of those don't turn into anything, but one can dream

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Pionk is going to be our Krug, Ellis, Letang, Gostisbehere, etc... All very similar (small, skilled and good skaters) players that have been having a ton of success in the NHL lately. We were lucky to be the team that grabbed him

Two years from now our defense could be one of the best in the league if our prospects see it through. Skjei, Pionk, Miller, Hajek, Lundkvist, Rykov.... dyamn. Only a dream now and almost a certainty one or two of those don't turn into anything, but one can dream

If ADA keeps developing and you add him to that group... we’re talking Nashville type depth.

 

[ThirdEye]

If ADA keeps developing and you add him to that group... we’re talking Nashville type depth.

Indeed... forgot about him and he's been one of the bright spots this season. I changed 2 to 3-4 since Miller and Lundkvist are probably further away

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Indeed... forgot about him and he's been one of the bright spots this season. I changed 2 to 3-4 since Miller and Lundkvist are probably further away

I think Miller is going to be an Absolute STUD. He’s our future 1D... and I think Lindgren could still push for a bottom pair role.

Look at the rebuild what’s our strength? Centers, defense, and Goalie.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I think Miller is going to be an Absolute STUD. He’s our future 1D... and I think Lindgren could still push for a bottom pair role.

Look at the rebuild what’s our strength? Centers, defense, and Goalie.

I'm very high on Miller, the pick was a good gamble that is panning out very well so far.

In a somewhat similar vein, I always wondered what Adam Tambellini would have been able to do as a defenceman. I think the game no longer has room for the 6'5 winger with a big shot, but I think a player in that mold could successfully transfer to defence if he has the mind for it and the willingness to try.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Pionk is going to be our Krug, Ellis, Letang, Gostisbehere, etc... All very similar (small, skilled and good skaters) players that have been having a ton of success in the NHL lately. We were lucky to be the team that grabbed him

3-4 years from now our defense could be one of the best in the league if our prospects see it through. Skjei, Pionk, Miller, Hajek, Lundkvist, Rykov.... dyamn. Only a dream now and almost a certainty one or two of those don't turn into anything, but one can dream

Not enough Joey Keane in this post.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I'm very high on Miller, the pick was a good gamble that is panning out very well so far.

In a somewhat similar vein, I always wondered what Adam Tambellini would have been able to do as a defenceman. I think the game no longer has room for the 6'5 winger with a big shot, but I think a player in that mold could successfully transfer to defence if he has the mind for it and the willingness to try.

There’s less competition for him on the wing.. I just don’t think he’s an NHL talent. There’s plenty of big guys in the league still thriving. It’s the nature of a rebuild. Guys we watched closely for a while no longer match up to their contemporaries in the system. I think gettinger plays that big bottom six winger role better than Tambo. And Tambo just doesn’t have the skill to cut it as a top 6 guy. This rebuild will have a lot of bottom 6 or bottom pair guys who get moved on from and end up making the league elsewhere. It’s just the price of doing business. Hopefully we make the right decisions on who sticks

Look at Sean Day many pegged him as the future 6-7 D and now he’s the odd man out in Hartford because we brought in so many Dmen.

 

[Blue Blooded]

There’s less competition for him on the wing.. I just don’t think he’s an NHL talent. There’s plenty of big guys in the league still thriving. It’s the nature of a rebuild. Guys we watched closely for a while no longer match up to their contemporaries in the system. I think gettinger plays that big bottom six winger role better than Tambo. And Tambo just doesn’t have the skill to cut it as a top 6 guy. This rebuild will have a lot of bottom 6 or bottom pair guys who get moved on from and end up making the league elsewhere. It’s just the price of doing business. Hopefully we make the right decisions on who sticks

Look at Sean Day many pegged him as the future 6-7 D and now he’s the odd man out in Hartford because we brought in so many Dmen.

I think it's pretty obvious that Tambo isn't going to make the NHL as a winger at this point, he's with the Sens now BTW, but a guy with his skillset could become a formidable D (or an utter disaster). I know we have a bit of a logjam at D, but it was more in the abstract - how well can a guy like him transfer to D at 23?

But I disagree about the size, especially for wingers, every inch above 6'3 seems to be a detriment nowadays. Not that it can't be overcome, but it seems to hurt more than help whereas that doesn't seem to be the case as much for defencemen.

 

[Ola]

You literally don't get it and can't do reading comprehension. And then you decided to write a whole lot of words that basically mean nothing.

Anyway, back to Pionk.

No, Irish, its the complete opposite, I know for a fact that I can both read and write and that I am not exactly unintelligent either. I have been in the top percentile (easily) in the education system and have a very successful career as a lawyer that very much centers around reading and writing. If I can't read and write, believe me, I wouldn't fare well. I also have a former career in hockey that I think is like top 25 at hfboards. This is not to say that I am always right and others are always wrong. But don't disregard me as someone that cannot comprehend what I read or write something in a meaningful way.

But you know what, I have never written a post on the topic of analytics that I have felt that whomever the post was directed to actually read. Even tried to understand. Even tried to listen to. You, @Machinehead, @ManUtdTobbe, @silverfish and co always reacts in the same way: You cannot possibly have a point. The response I get is always, really always -- You cannot read. You just write a bunch of words that don't mean anything.

But whatever, go ahead and keep making constant personal attacks. I can't read. I can't understand anything. I have never understood anything. It obviously make you feel better.

 

[nyr2k2]

You literally don't get it and can't do reading comprehension. And then you decided to write a whole lot of words that basically mean nothing.

Anyway, back to Pionk.

Ola is a smart guy and he's trying to have a reasoned discussion. He has put a lot of thought into his posts. Maybe you think he doesn't "get it" or whatever, but he's not being disrespectful to anyone. And then you just look like a jerk here. Posting face palms and attacking the guy personally. What a joke.

 

[Irishguy42]

I posted actual evidence to back my thoughts.

Only to be sweeped aside by "I feel like that's completely wrong" and then no real cohesive argument to support it. I was trying to have that reasonable discussion with supporting evidence to my argument, but at some point, there is no reason to reason with stubbornness.

What's the real joke?

 

[romba]

Also don’t attack someone on their reading comp when English is not their first language. I get where you’re frustration is coming from but it’s a bad look.

 

[Irishguy42]

Also don’t attack someone on their reading comp when English is not their first language. I get where you’re frustration is coming from but it’s a bad look.

Fair

 

[duhmetreE]

Does anyone have a website that has 'advanced stats' for players by game?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Does anyone have a website that has 'advanced stats' for players by game?

Hockey-reference has a quick and dirty Advanced Stats section for each player. If you want more indepth stuff, try Corsica.hockey or NaturalStatTrick.com

 

[Machinehead]

A little freaked out David Quinn to lighten the mood

 

[Irishguy42]

A little freaked out David Quinn to lighten the mood

Those eyes can lighten my mood any day.

 

[nyr2k2]

I posted actual evidence to back my thoughts.

Only to be sweeped aside by "I feel like that's completely wrong" and then no real cohesive argument to support it. I was trying to have that reasonable discussion with supporting evidence to my argument, but at some point, there is no reason to reason with stubbornness.

What's the real joke?

Not being grown up enough to walk away, and instead feeling like you need to mock and insult. That's the real joke.

Also, he posted plenty of cohesive arguments. I understood them. I don't know if they're right, but I understood them. Do you not reading comprehension?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Just to mention some numbers regarding QoC for Pionk: there are QoC metrics that account for other on-ice effects for his competition (scoring chances, etc.). I don’t think these are even close to perfect yet, but a rough approximation can be gauged from his game logs. He’s had mixed usage, but it mainly breaks down to him playing against opposition with a higher% of ice time. This can be seen on hockeyviz.com and viewing the NYR team page.

From an on-ice effect perspective: the CF% and xGF% of his opposition is actually 6th and 7th on the team, respectively. That actually surprised me a bit because I expected it to be higher.

His pairing with Staal has resulted in a lot of volume against, but they’ve been able to suppress quality chances against. I don’t know how sustainable that will be, but it hasn’t hurt them from a goals against perspective yet. They’ve also started in the defensive zone more than any pairing besides Skjei-McQuaid.

I think the skill is definitely there. He needs to work on his strength because he can get pushed off the puck too easily, i.e., losing the puck battle on Domi’s PP goal, and his decision making on breakouts. I’ve liked his aggression picking spots to jump up in the neutral zone, and he’s made some really nice plays to pick off passes and kickstart a quick transition. I actually think ADA has been better defensively in this recent stretch, and I’d prefer Pionk not to be the PP1 qb. I still think he’ll be a really solid player once he’s slotted properly. He’s currently over his head, but I think he can find a nice niche as a 4/5 dman.

If anything here isn’t clear or needs further elaboration, let me know.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I agree with the spirit of what @Ola is saying. Analytics and advanced stats if anything, should promote critical thinking and ask you to question and dig deeper. It seems it went backwards.

 

[Inferno]

Proof qot>qoc

Renberg, Mikael.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Hey @Ola, you always ignore my broader points or come with bullshit arguments against them so don't attack me for ignoring your wall of text where you started off by trashing two well written analytics articles, i zoned out after that.