Player Discussion: Neal Pionk Part 2

Buffdog

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Agreed about the contract year thing. Way too much goes into being a professional athlete and maintaining that every day to think it comes down to contract status.
I don't think effort on a game to game basis would necessarily be influenced by a contract year. I think that once a guy is on the ice playing, that stuff isn't in their mind.

BUT I do think that it's possible for a guy going into a contract year to take his off season preparation more seriously and he could show up to camp in better shape and more prepared

With Pionk, I could see increased cardio helping him make better reads and decisions (it's easier to make simple mistakes in a hypoxic state)
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Some guys are definitely more driven by money. I was told a story by a guy who witnessed it first hand where Alexi Semin asked the locker room how much more money they got if they won the cup and when he was told, he said something along the lines of "well that doesn't seem like it's worth it for that amount"

Edit: sorry it was 2nd hand, but reliable source

Interesting/funny story. Have to take it with a grain of salt but it could be accurate. Wouldn't be too surprising if it was.

I don't know how the system for PO bonus money works in the NHL. I don't think the money is very big. Winning the Cup certainly pays for players renewing their contracts soon after though. At least for the top players. That is a contributing factor to the difficulty in building a dynasty these days. At any rate a Cup is always a good thing on a player's resume.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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But until actually proven this much more likely can be attributed to selective attention bias than actual fact.

It would be interesting to see an actual study on it. Not something I have the time for but it would be interesting to see.
 
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Adam da bomb

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I don't think effort on a game to game basis would necessarily be influenced by a contract year. I think that once a guy is on the ice playing, that stuff isn't in their mind.

BUT I do think that it's possible for a guy going into a contract year to take his off season preparation more seriously and he could show up to camp in better shape and more prepared

With Pionk, I could see increased cardio helping him make better reads and decisions (it's easier to make simple mistakes in a hypoxic state)
Not just off-season. I think during the season they spend that extra hour in the gym, video room or on ice instead of with their families. Everyone knows that it is only 1 out of potentially 7 years so everyone is on board, but, they are not willing to sacrifice any more of their child's childhood to be just a little better.
 
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Buffdog

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Interesting/funny story. Have to take it with a grain of salt but it could be accurate. Wouldn't be too surprising if it was.

I don't know how the system for PO bonus money works in the NHL. I don't think the money is very big. Winning the Cup certainly pays for players renewing their contracts soon after though. At least for the top players. That is a contributing factor to the difficulty in building a dynasty these days. At any rate a Cup is always a good thing on a player's resume.
The bonus to win a cup came last season was 3.75M last season, divided by the entire team. In the case of Semin, it would have been considerably lower in the early days of his career
 
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KingBogo

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Not just off-season. I think during the season they spend that extra hour in the gym, video room or on ice instead of with their families. Everyone knows that it is only 1 out of potentially 7 years so everyone is on board, but, they are not willing to sacrifice any more of their child's childhood to be just a little better.
Many players, probably the majority never get to play on contracts of more than a year or 2 at a time. So they are always in a contract year.
 

Adam da bomb

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Many players, probably the majority never get to play on contracts of more than a year or 2 at a time. So they are always in a contract year.
Would be interesting as I think only d who has got a 1 year contract is Stan, miller, fleury. Pionk, mo, berg, Dillion, Schmidt all had multi year. Our top 3 lines had multi, iafallo had a multi.
 

nobody imp0rtant

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Thought this was a good article. Same draft year as Morrissey, undrafted. Now just a notch behind Morrissey in the scoring race.
Do you seriously believe that anything published on the NHL official website is going to be unbiased, objective and anything less than glowingly positive? This is the NHL's Pravda. :laugh:

But hey, glad you like him cause he is going to get re-signed to a multi-year contract. Loyalty: it's a Jets thing.
 

voyageur

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How often do you read Jets stories on the NHL website. I know it's better to be negative towards all the players but if he's getting attention probably doing something right.
 
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Jet

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How often do you read Jets stories on the NHL website. I know it's better to be negative towards all the players but if he's getting attention probably doing something right.
Some people just wanna hate.

Probably wish he was sucking to confirm their bias.
 

Jet

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Maybe it's just remembering the last few years of Pionk. A handful of games of playing great shouldn't wash out years of him being a liability.
Or, maybe you're just hyper focused on spreadsheets that show his shortfalls?

Pionk has his warts for sure but he also has a lot of positive qualities.

Your need to try to discount a positive article written about him shows your bias.

Can't just enjoy his good play and celebrate that. I like to try and enjoy the team, it's players and look for the good.
 
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LowLefty

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Maybe it's just remembering the last few years of Pionk. A handful of games of playing great shouldn't wash out years of him being a liability.
He's only a liability if he loses (or decides not to display) that edge he can bring - and you're right in calling out the fact that it isn't always there.
He's a dman after all and with his size (and assuming defense is just as important as offense), he needs that edge to play well defensively.

In today's NHL, we measure this type of dman based on offense - but they are not off the hook when it comes to defending.
The gamble in his next contract is, will he be able to play with that edge as he gets older - and for how long.

All I'd add is that I'd be careful with this one - because IMO, these smaller offensive dmen lose a lot of value if they can't manage the defensive side of the game. When he is playing with that edge, he's good - but it's not unheard of to see these guys pull back on the edge under contract in their twilight years.
The guy the will likely get that type of contract is JoMo - he'll be over paid at some point. Do we want another smaller dman in that same situation?

BTW, there's no "hate" in this opinion - sometimes it's just opinion.
 

voyageur

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He's only a liability if he loses (or decides not to display) that edge he can bring - and you're right in calling out the fact that it isn't always there.
He's a dman after all and with his size (and assuming defense is just as important as offense), he needs that edge to play well defensively.

In today's NHL, we measure this type of dman based on offense - but they are not off the hook when it comes to defending.
The gamble in his next contract is, will he be able to play with that edge as he gets older - and for how long.

All I'd add is that I'd be careful with this one - because IMO, these smaller offensive dmen lose a lot of value if they can't manage the defensive side of the game. When he is playing with that edge, he's good - but it's not unheard of to see these guys pull back on the edge under contract in their twilight years.
The guy the will likely get that type of contract is JoMo - he'll be over paid at some point. Do we want another smaller dman in that same situation?

BTW, there's no "hate" in this opinion - sometimes it's just opinion.
It's a fair opinion. I think there are a lot of areas that you can look at the Jets and say they are imperfectly built. Smaller defense, smaller wingers, no true elite centre. Lack of scoring from centres.

A lot of things had to go right to get the start the Jets had.

When you look at the future, I think people are excited about Salomonsson with good reason. But there's as much uncertainty that Salomonsson is going to be ready for 20 minutes a night shutdown defense next season as anything else on this team. Does Pionk's success depend on Dylan Samberg? For sure. Does Samberg need a puck mover to have success, I think that's also likely true? Jet would be a qualified commentator on how much good defense relies on chemistry, knowing how your d-partner likes to plays, and complementing it. Spacing is so important in defense, to be successful. Can't be separated from good forward work either, centers who play in the right areas of the ice, forward who backcheck to negate speed and odd man rushes. Can anyone say that Samberg and Salomonsson would be good in their spacing, as two players who don't really know each other's game? They had one preseason game, and it could have been rust but I did notice that they had trouble with clean breakouts.

I will watch how it plays out. There's so many potential changes looming on this team, my inclination is the Jets would like to have a relatively consistent top 4 to go into next season.
And Pionk has been more consistent as the article and our coach suggest.

I thought the article was good because it talks about how many d-men from the draft class he was passed over have played as many NHL games as him. Mental strength being mentioned by former coaches as one of Pionk's strengths is maybe an insight into the player, more than the analytics of playing a lot of d-zone starts.
 
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Gm0ney

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Or, maybe you're just hyper focused on spreadsheets that show his shortfalls?

Pionk has his warts for sure but he also has a lot of positive qualities.

Your need to try to discount a positive article written about him shows your bias.

Can't just enjoy his good play and celebrate that. I like to try and enjoy the team, it's players and look for the good.
All I said was that a handful of games of good play doesn't wash out years of terrible play. I mean, you don't need to reference any spreadsheets to know Pionk has often been a disaster out there over the past few seasons.

He played well against the Oilers in the Pandemic Playoffs and he's had a great run early here. Those are two small exceptions to the general rule - Pionk's overall contributions to the Jets are negative.

Anything can happen in small samples...
 

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