Player Discussion: Neal Pionk Part 2

[DRW204]

Buff hardly ever set up Laine it was usually Wheeler. I also think Wheeler is the last person who should be shooting on pp. pionk is good at holding puck in their zone. His shot doesn’t get blocked as much as Trouba’s did and he doesn’t always try and shoot it. Maybe Niku would have been better at it if he could figure out the D thing. Maybe Heinola will be better.
pionk rarely makes bad turnovers virtually perfect compared to Tuba. His gaps are great. He has been one of our best D defensively.

Buff has 7 primary assists on Laine's career PP goals vs Wheeler has 12. Buff hasn't played this year and missed 55 games during Laine's first 3 years (so missed over 100+ games total comparatively), and Laine did not play on PP1 half the year in his rookie season. Perhaps it's primarily Wheeler, but Buff still set them up. There's also goals and scoring opportunities off Laine's rebounds to consider too which you miss out on with Pionk being an ineffective distributor. I think Pionk's overall effectiveness is quite overrated on this board, probably due to the player he was traded for. His 5v5 play has probably been below average to average a player given his role, probably fair to categorize him as a low-end 2nd pairing dman, but his PP usage and point production skews a lot. The PP will continue to be middling with him on there imo.

at 5v5 scoring he's 88th in the league in totals, and 135th in the league in efficiency (5v5 pts/60) for Dmen (min 500 minutes). He's a PP specialist that really does not make the PP much better. if he's our highest paid dman - which i am projecting him to be - that will be a terrible use of cap-space. He is not better than Morrissey defensively, even with Morrissey having a down year by his standards. But sure, he's the best out of a bunch of waiver pick ups and ahl guys.

 

[Duke749]

Pionk a low end second pairing defensemen? With what he’s had to drag around all season?

 

[DRW204]

Pionk a low end second pairing defensemen? With what he’s had to drag around all season?

what puts him anything above that? In GAR he ranks 109th in the League for D and GAR/60 he ranks 121st. if you isolate just at EV impact, 114th at EV D and 128th in EV O. I would not label his 5v5 scoring rates as 2nd pairing (135th in pts/60). He's benefiting immensely from his PP usage where he is able to rack up points being the point-man (similar to Trouba last year, but even a greater degree in Pionk's case), but i would not call him a player that is elevating our PP to a respectable status. Of course ALL Dmen rely on the PP for points, but there is no Dman (other than Krug) that relies on it more than Pionk. Perhaps not a low-end, but definitely not high-end where he is able to carry a pairing. low to mid end is probably a fair compromise .... he's also spent time with Kulikov and Morrissey, so it's not all waiver fodder like Sbisa. I think his 5v5 impact is vastly overrated but i am willing to hear what makes you think he's substantially above my label of "low-end."

having said that he's still has been a surprise to me this year, just because the expectations were so low

 

[Jet]

if you are noticing pionk shoot more on the PP that's a problem. he should not be shooting, it should be going to Laine. However, Pionk is crap at setting Laine up for the One-T and has to throw it on net or go back to Wheeler.

i am fully anticipating Pionk to get more $ than Morrissey. Total Points and TOI are usually the drivers for Dmen salaries, and Pionk leads the Jets in both. He is one of the most reliant Dmen in the league on PP for point production (2nd among Dmen in the top 50 for PP points to total points ratio). He should be grateful he's a RHD and has that role on the PP to individually bank points, but his presence on there has been one of the reasons the PP has been underwhelming this year after 2 years of being top 5

I'd say the issue with the D to Laine pass is less with Pionk and more with the way teams play us. Teams were shutting that down pretty effectively with Byfuglien last season.

Pionk doesn't have a bomb but he gets the puck through better than any other D we have.

 

[Jet]

Neal Pionk - 4th in the league in zone escapes. Who woulda thought?

 

[Whileee]

Neal Pionk - 4th in the league in zone escapes. Who woulda thought?

It's a strength.

Areas for improvement... Defending in his zone. Crisper stretch passes. Both should get better, and then you have a real gem.

 

[voyageur]

It's a strength.

Areas for improvement... Defending in his zone. Crisper stretch passes. Both should get better, and then you have a real gem.

That was a surprisingly big hit from Pionk on Draisaitl late in the game. And was unreal how he pulled the puck off the line. We have a better defenseman than Trouba for less than half the price. I want to see Pionk in the playoffs.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Neal Pionk - 4th in the league in zone escapes. Who woulda thought?

He is amazingly slippery. Great zip going in and out of a turn on retrieval, also great at selling a move and then reversing. I know his stock is low here atm but Niku has a nice line in this too, at least at the AHL level. Can really generate and maintain his speed while pivoting and picking his pass or route, as we were beginning to see.

 

[voyageur]

Neal Pionk - 4th in the league in zone escapes. Who woulda thought?

Maybe you and a couple of other posters here. Re-read eposide 1 of the Neal Pionk thread and have a good chuckle.

 

[Jet]

Maybe you and a couple of other posters here. Re-read eposide 1 of the Neal Pionk thread and have a good chuckle.

That gives me nightmares just thinking about it.

People absolutely RIPPING Neal and not considering the ridiculously impossible situation he was put in.

'Hey, ummmm, so, we know you are a rookie, but we are going to load top matchups and heavy minutes on you with a crap partner and garbage team. Wait, you can't handle it? YOU SUCK!!!!

I will admit, most of my 'clairvoyance' with Pionk was my refusal to judge him until I saw him play for us, and my eternal optimism, coupled with my respect for our scouting and GM's savvy, but he far exceeded what I thought he would do this year.

 

[Whileee]

We'll, it looks like this season might be over, so here's a quick summary of Pionk vs. Trouba for the season.

Based on performance metrics, I'd say Year 1 goes to Pionk.

GAR: Trouba -8.5, Pionk +0.8
xGAR: Trouba +0.7, Pionk +4.0

 

[ps241]

We'll, it looks like this season might be over, so here's a quick summary of Pionk vs. Trouba for the season.

Based on performance metrics, I'd say Year 1 goes to Pionk.

GAR: Trouba -8.5, Pionk +0.8
xGAR: Trouba +0.7, Pionk +4.0

View attachment 335921

Yea Pionk did a very good job carrying partners that weren’t ideally suited to top 4 rolls. I would love to see Samberg with him next year as the season wears on. That could be a really good pair.

 

[EpicGingy]

It'd be awesome if we could lock up Pionk for 5 or 6 years at a good price this summer

I wonder if he'll try to cash in on his breakout season now or prove he can do it again next year to get a bigger contract.

 

[ps241]

So Murat Ates wrote a great piece in the Athletic about Neil Pionk’s effectiveness as a PP QB.

Interesting to note in the NHL last season the league leaders in points per 60
minute at 5-4 were:

1. Connor McDavid
2. Leon Draisaitl
3. David Pattrnak
4. Mika Zimbanejad
5. Neal Pionk

just so we know it wasn’t a fluke in 2108-19 on one of the worst teams in the NHL as a rookie he was 9th in the NHL at 5-4 points per 60 minute and none of these numbers were bolstered by shooting % outliers.

Murat goes into breaking down his skill set in the piece.

As usual the Athletic is a good read to get outside our echo chamber.

 

[AWSAA]

So Murat Ates wrote a great piece in the Athletic about Neil Pionk’s effectiveness as a PP QB.

Interesting to note in the NHL last season the league leaders in points per 60
minute at 5-4 were:

1. Connor McDavid
2. Leon Draisaitl
3. David Pattrnak
4. Mika Zimbanejad
5. Neal Pionk

just so we know it wasn’t a fluke in 2108-19 on one of the worst teams in the NHL as a rookie he was 9th at 5-4 points per 60 minute and none of these numbers were bolstered by shooting % outliers.

Murat goes into breaking down his skill set in the piece.

As usual the Athletic is a good read to get outside our echo chamber.

Sell high then. Maybe you can convince some other GM he's a gem. I want no part of Pionk's next contract.

 

[mazmin]

Pionk may not be an analytics darling, but he's certainly a top 4 dman based on his ability to carry and distribute the puck alone. The league has swung towards his exact style of play, so good for him. Although I think Heinola is the future PP QB of the Jets, Pionk still has one more year to do some damage. I won't be shocked if Pionk shows, again, that he has another level to his game. If there was a most improved player award in the NHL, then Pionk would have received a lot of votes last year. Maybe he improves again? He's only 25.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Sell high then. Maybe you can convince some other GM he's a gem. I want no part of Pionk's next contract.

Please explain?

 

[lanky]

He's very undervalued on this board.

 

[ps241]

He's very undervalued on this board.

He fell from grace on our board during the play ins when most of our team sucked IMO. We know for the past two seasons he has generated as much 5v4 PP60 as any other D man in the league. Neil had pretty crappy partners at 5v5 for most of the season and played well considering. My belief is at some point Samberg will make the perfect partner for Neil on our second pairing.

I remain a Pionk fan.

 

[JetsFan815]

I can't find a thread to discuss this player. He has been awesome. I must say I expected complete garbage when we traded for him as at that time his advanced stats with the Rangers barely made him look like an NHL d-man but he has been absolutely brilliant. The Jets pro scouts have a terrible record with d-men (hello Sbisa, Strait, Beaulieu) but this has been a home run for them.

Plays with so much heart and is willing drop big hits and take hits, quite impressive for a smaller player. I wish we could have seen him and Buff play together.

 

[snowkiddin]

Pionk >>>>> Trouba, rather easily, I might add.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Pionk >>>>> Trouba, rather easily, I might add.

And I was a Jacob Trouba fan. I even have a home and an away Jets jersey with #8 TROUBA on the back!
Any takers for them? And I know Jets are better off with Pionk. Never mind that we have Heinola brewing in the A too!

 

[garret9]

Pionk >>>>> Trouba, rather easily, I might add.

Pionk is playing as the Jets best defender this season, 100%. That may even fit the AINEC tag legitimately haha.
He's also playing better this and last season than Trouba is this and last season.

But let's not also forget how dominant Trouba was when he was here:

EDIT:
A different model has Trouba as still being better, but also has Pionk trending upwards... which is also interesting to add to the evidence:

So maybe not better than Trouba for sure... but he's definitely been the Jets best dman this season.

 

[snowkiddin]

Pionk is playing as the Jets best defender this season, 100%. That may even fit the AINEC tag legitimately haha.
He's also playing better this and last season than Trouba is this and last season.

But let's not also forget how dominant Trouba was when he was here:

EDIT:
A different model has Trouba as still being better, but also has Pionk trending upwards... which is also interesting to add to the evidence:

So maybe not better than Trouba for sure... but he's definitely been the Jets best dman this season.

Really shows what an astute trade that was for the Jets. They had Trouba all the years he was dominant and when he began to take a step back they were able to trade him for a better defenseman plus a 1st which they used on a defenseman who projects to be better than Trouba.

 

[voyageur]

Really shows what an astute trade that was for the Jets. They had Trouba all the years he was dominant and when he began to take a step back they were able to trade him for a better defenseman plus a 1st which they used on a defenseman who projects to be better than Trouba.

I still remember when posters here wanted to burn their jerseys after that trade. He had such a bad rap based on advanced stats. Turns out he's pretty good. Credit goes to our scouts, who knew what they were getting.