News Article: NCC putting in a lot of conditions for the downtown site

[Micklebot]

Contested by whom exactly? Developers?
The citys numbers could very well be off, but at a cursory glance 2018 - 2025 populations align quite well with what the city projected. Whereas in the ministry of finance projections they have the population at 1.11m in 2023, and according the the 2024 year end estimations we have not yet hit that number.

Either way, a lot can and will change in 20 years, and if not having the 95 or equivalent routes is still an issue then... well we've got much bigger things to worry about.

Well, contested by the Ministry of Finances projection which I quoted, for one. The fact is the city is currently starting the process to create a new projection 5 years earlier than anticipated. Presumably they are doing so because they either aren't confident in the old projections, or something that happened since the old ones were made has changed the equation. If you want to dispute the Ministry of Finance's 2023 number, by all means, they do post their methodology, specifically, they use the projections from Statistics Canada’s preliminary postcensal population estimates for July 1, 2023 as a base, so take it up with Stats Can?

 

[Beech]

It's really hard for me to imagine anyone riding their bike to a Sens game in January.

now add a $40 Uber ride, back and fro. Net $80
now consider a Taxi.. do they still exist? Another $80 round trip

Everyone argues, places to eat, drink, before and after..Sure $100-$300 of pre and post game spending

$100-$300 a ticket.. times 2, 3 or 4 You are at $200-$1200

This city is packed to overflowing with people who can spend $500-$2000 a pop. 41 home dates, 3 pre season, 0-10 playoffs.

Now add 2-3 concerts, 2-3 other events.

We must be loaded (I don't mean on booze). There has got to be an ocean's worth of people with $30,000-$70,000 to blow.

Or is it that people are loaded, as in on booze?

Cannot you just see, Molly, Suburban house wife. Hubby tells her tickets to Saturdays' game.

So Friday, it is off to shop. We would drop dead if we didn't have a new outfit.
Saturday morning, nails and hair
Dinner in the Market of course
Uber driver that scares the day lights out of us to take us back and forth, or similar cabi. Or better yet, a drunk next to us on the LRT which is shaking and bouncing as it churns along. A 10-20 minute wait in -20, while she is in a shear outfit, because Molly housewife wants you to see her sexy ass.

All the while, a 2030, 2031, etc. giant SUV with full leather interior, every bell and whistle, is siting in the warm garage.

Oh f*** yea. there is zero doubt.

Hubby drops $1,000 in the hope of getting laid. He drops $1,000, gets an angry wife. And never does it again.

 

[Kegu]

Well, contested by the Ministry of Finances projection which I quoted, for one. The fact is the city is currently starting the process to create a new projection 5 years earlier than anticipated. Presumably they are doing so because they either aren't confident in the old projections, or something that happened since the old ones were made has changed the equation. If you want to dispute the Ministry of Finance's 2023 number, by all means, they do post their methodology, specifically, they use the projections from Statistics Canada’s preliminary postcensal population estimates for July 1, 2023 as a base, so take it up with Stats Can?

Yes the provincial projections are absolutely a contributing factor probably not the sole factor but definitely a major one. Not sure why you're telling me to take it up with StatsCan, I really don't care that much. I was just pointing out that while it's entirely possible that Ottawas projections are low, the opposite can also be true for the provincial projections.
I guess we will find out when the population hits 1.5million

 

[Micklebot]

Yes the provincial projections are absolutely a contributing factor probably not the sole factor but definitely a major one. Not sure why you're telling me to take it up with StatsCan, I really don't care that much. I was just pointing out that while it's entirely possible that Ottawas projections are low, the opposite can also be true for the provincial projections.
I guess we will find out when the population hits 1.5million

I'm just telling you where the 2023 number came from, since you seemed to key in on it as though it was evidence that there was potentially something wrong with the Min Finance projections. Everything other than the 2021 census numbers are just estimates or projections, the key difference would be that the Ministry of Finance has 5 years of additional information it can look to when making it's projections since it was made 5 years later. They likely use very similar methodologies, it's not like there are best practices for this type of stuff.

 

[Stylizer1]

now add a $40 Uber ride, back and fro. Net $80
now consider a Taxi.. do they still exist? Another $80 round trip

Everyone argues, places to eat, drink, before and after..Sure $100-$300 of pre and post game spending

$100-$300 a ticket.. times 2, 3 or 4 You are at $200-$1200

This city is packed to overflowing with people who can spend $500-$2000 a pop. 41 home dates, 3 pre season, 0-10 playoffs.

Now add 2-3 concerts, 2-3 other events.

We must be loaded (I don't mean on booze). There has got to be an ocean's worth of people with $30,000-$70,000 to blow.

Or is it that people are loaded, as in on booze?

Cannot you just see, Molly, Suburban house wife. Hubby tells her tickets to Saturdays' game.

So Friday, it is off to shop. We would drop dead if we didn't have a new outfit.
Saturday morning, nails and hair
Dinner in the Market of course
Uber driver that scares the day lights out of us to take us back and forth, or similar cabi. Or better yet, a drunk next to us on the LRT which is shaking and bouncing as it churns along. A 10-20 minute wait in -20, while she is in a shear outfit, because Molly housewife wants you to see her sexy ass.

All the while, a 2030, 2031, etc. giant SUV with full leather interior, every bell and whistle, is siting in the warm garage.

Oh f*** yea. there is zero doubt.

Hubby drops $1,000 in the hope of getting laid. He drops $1,000, gets an angry wife. And never does it again.

You extrapolate too much.

 

[Stylizer1]

Yes the provincial projections are absolutely a contributing factor probably not the sole factor but definitely a major one. Not sure why you're telling me to take it up with StatsCan, I really don't care that much. I was just pointing out that while it's entirely possible that Ottawas projections are low, the opposite can also be true for the provincial projections.
I guess we will find out when the population hits 1.5million

We are bringing in 1 million people this year. 60 million by 2100.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

You extrapolate too much.

It's the butterfly effect. You think it just suddenly ends?

 

[Kegu]

I'm just telling you where the 2023 number came from, since you seemed to key in on it as though it was evidence that there was potentially something wrong with the Min Finance projections. Everything other than the 2021 census numbers are just estimates or projections, the key difference would be that the Ministry of Finance has 5 years of additional information it can look to when making it's projections since it was made 5 years later. They likely use very similar methodologies, it's not like there are best practices for

Nah as an idiot one looked more accurate thats all.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You extrapolate too much.

Ya like all of us are spending 100-300 bucks pre and post game.
Not to mention Hair done, nails done, dinner in market 41x a year

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Ya like all of us are spending 100-300 bucks pre and post game.
Not to mention Hair done, nails done, dinner in market 41x a year

I am bald

 

[Stylizer1]

I am bald

Dry clear your Toupee once a week? It adds up.

 

[Relapsing]

That's actually not a bad idea.

Its more than just an idea - it already is a thing.

Makes a ton of sense.

Really like this one:

This Assisted Living Facility Is Designed to Look Like a Small Town From the 1940s

Rethinking the entire notion of assisted living and retirement communities is a great thing.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

There are a lot of parking garages all around the area though. Also the transit lines are well established. What we did in Ottawa is design everything wrong.

I don’t feel the Senators ownership feel they have an obligation to build, operate and maintain a 5000 spaces parking lot IF they build at Lebreton…. They will be located within reasonable walking distance from both the east west, and north south Light Rail lines.

There very well be a business opportunity for an enterprising entrepreneur to set up parking garage in close proximity to the Arena, or set up a park and ride shuttle bus system….

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

TD Place Stadium has approximately 1,000 underground parking spots, and are reserved for club seat ticket holders on Ottawa REDBLACKS game days.

I suspect this will be the same approach used at Lebreton… it will be a paradigm shift for most fans, who for years have gotten used to driving to the games, they will have to adjust and adapt.

 

[dumbdick]

I wish the platforms onto the trains had some more plexiglass barriers keeping people away from the tracks. I feel the drunken sens crowds filing into the trains will result in at least one tragedy.

Same deal with the market etc. Those barriers exists in other places. Get it here.

 

[JSSSTP]

Appreciate the explanation… but the plan is unlikely to be changed…. As I said earlier in the conversation, for every one customer who doesn’t go a game because they can’t drive and park at the Arena, there will be 10 who will take alternate transportation to the game…. So the ownership is not going to spend extra $$$ on a parking lot to accommodate a small minority of fans who want to,drive to games like they do now.

There is no way that the majority of 16-19 thousand people (not sure how many seats they are planning) would rather use public transportation instead of driving. Have you been on a bus at 10-11pm on Friday and Saturday nights? It’s not pretty, especially if you’re bringing your children.

 

[SPF6ty9]

TD Place Stadium has approximately 1,000 underground parking spots, and are reserved for club seat ticket holders on Ottawa REDBLACKS game days.

I suspect this will be the same approach used at Lebreton… it will be a paradigm shift for most fans, who for years have gotten used to driving to the games, they will have to adjust and adapt.

Judging by the packed streets in the Glebe and Ottawa South, lots of people are driving to Redblacks games. Just not so much an issue when you can have a nice pleasant 10-15min walk from your car on a 20 degree day.

The more I think about this, the more I think this rink is further and further away. Further de-risks things on Andlauer's part who has a suitable situation at the moment and would be moving to one that is very up in the air.

Bluesfest is basically your guinea pig for running the trains from Lebreton with a huge crowd of people, and things move pretty fast and efficiently once you're in the station. I think people could get used to that and deal with a 5 min wait or less outdoors to catch a train.

The problem is once you factor in the crowd and outdoor time before actually getting to the platform. I still don't understand how outdoor open air stations got approved for this thing. The people who actually planned or approved the train likely didn't actually take public transit in the first place.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Did you see the joke idea of turning old malls into old age homes? Keep the food court and half the stores, turn the rest into assited living units. Lmao

When Gen X is ready for retirement homes, that idea would work perfectly.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Judging by the packed streets in the Glebe and Ottawa South, lots of people are driving to Redblacks games. Just not so much an issue when you can have a nice pleasant 10-15min walk from your car on a 20 degree day.

The more I think about this, the more I think this rink is further and further away. Further de-risks things on Andlauer's part who has a suitable situation at the moment and would be moving to one that is very up in the air.

Bluesfest is basically your guinea pig for running the trains from Lebreton with a huge crowd of people, and things move pretty fast and efficiently once you're in the station. I think people could get used to that and deal with a 5 min wait or less outdoors to catch a train.

The problem is once you factor in the crowd and outdoor time before actually getting to the platform. I still don't understand how outdoor open air stations got approved for this thing. The people who actually planned or approved the train likely didn't actually take public transit in the first place.

And it's not like they didn't have a bit of a blueprint to work with.

I remember when OC Transpo built that nice underground station to St Laurent. It was amazing. Spending so much time above ground waiting forever for buses and then suddenly getting that underground station that was noticeably warmer and dry in winter was a dream come true.

I get building subways and underground lines are way more expensive than above ground....but Ottawa is one of the coldest capitol cities on the planet, and has an incredibly long winter, and a nasty, humid summer. If any area should focus on good climate controlled mass transit, it's this area.

When you look past reliability and convenience of your own vehicle, it's simple comfort. A place with temperate ranges from -45 (with windchill) to 38 (with humidity), people are going to choose comfort for a good chunk of the year.

 

[MiscBrah]

now add a $40 Uber ride, back and fro. Net $80
now consider a Taxi.. do they still exist? Another $80 round trip

Everyone argues, places to eat, drink, before and after..Sure $100-$300 of pre and post game spending

$100-$300 a ticket.. times 2, 3 or 4 You are at $200-$1200

This city is packed to overflowing with people who can spend $500-$2000 a pop. 41 home dates, 3 pre season, 0-10 playoffs.

Now add 2-3 concerts, 2-3 other events.

We must be loaded (I don't mean on booze). There has got to be an ocean's worth of people with $30,000-$70,000 to blow.

Or is it that people are loaded, as in on booze?

Cannot you just see, Molly, Suburban house wife. Hubby tells her tickets to Saturdays' game.

So Friday, it is off to shop. We would drop dead if we didn't have a new outfit.
Saturday morning, nails and hair
Dinner in the Market of course
Uber driver that scares the day lights out of us to take us back and forth, or similar cabi. Or better yet, a drunk next to us on the LRT which is shaking and bouncing as it churns along. A 10-20 minute wait in -20, while she is in a shear outfit, because Molly housewife wants you to see her sexy ass.

All the while, a 2030, 2031, etc. giant SUV with full leather interior, every bell and whistle, is siting in the warm garage.

Oh f*** yea. there is zero doubt.

Hubby drops $1,000 in the hope of getting laid. He drops $1,000, gets an angry wife. And never does it again.

How is any of this different than where the arena is right now? There will be some people that still treat it as a special event and go all out as you're suggesting and then there will be the 95% of other people that just wear clothes they already have, take transit to the game, or drive to a park and ride, attend the game (maybe grab some beers beforehand) and then head home after the game. Alternatively, you may be suggesting that because the arena is currently in a desolate location that precludes pre and post-game activities that helps people save money because they have nowhere to spend it?

 

[Loach]

When Gen X is ready for retirement homes, that idea would work perfectly.

It was brilliant. 3/4 of the parking was turned into arboritum/garden type space. The shops where normal ones that the old folks could use. Groceries, hair cuts, hardware. So they could get out and about to do all the every day buisness. They just didn't need special tranport/cab/bus to get there and back. I got a good laugh at it and then thought...wait a fckn minute!? Hahaha

 

[Masked]

It was brilliant. 3/4 of the parking was turned into arboritum/garden type space. The shops where normal ones that the old folks could use. Groceries, hair cuts, hardware. So they could get out and about to do all the every day buisness. They just didn't need special tranport/cab/bus to get there and back. I got a good laugh at it and then thought...wait a fckn minute!? Hahaha

Isn't that just Carlingwood but without the seniors' units attached?

 

[Beech]

How is any of this different than where the arena is right now? There will be some people that still treat it as a special event and go all out as you're suggesting and then there will be the 95% of other people that just wear clothes they already have, take transit to the game, or drive to a park and ride, attend the game (maybe grab some beers beforehand) and then head home after the game. Alternatively, you may be suggesting that because the arena is currently in a desolate location that precludes pre and post-game activities that helps people save money because they have nowhere to spend it?

At present, the following applies.

1) you get into a warm SUV/car that has been in your garage, or you pre-started in your drive way.
2) your wife/girlfriend/partner/boyfriend/mistress/toyboy/etc. in their outfit that is meant to impress gets in, and you drive to the CTC in Kanata
3) if you are looking to get laid, you leave early and stop off at some restaurant along the way, or one in the immediate area. Free parking out there.
4) or else, you eat at the Arena. Thus money to the team and not some private business owner.
5) Once at the Arena, you drive right to the door, Sweet Cheeks comes out. Struts to the doors, waits inside for you. All the while posing, so that everyone can admire. YOU drive to the parking lot. Park, Scurry along and be inside the arena doors after a 2-3 minute and 200-300 Meter walk/run/scurry along.
6) Game ends, you leave Sweet cheeks at the door (inside), you scurry to your vehicle, which you auto-started some 2-3 minutes earlier. Get in, drive to get her/him and off you go.
7) if the plan is to get them sloshed for sex, any local bar will do. There are way more out there than you think. Again, free parking, Vehicle 20-100 meters away. Sweet cheeks can be in a revealing outfit, even if it is -20 C outside.

Ottawa is a city with the smallest corporate base. Tickets are sold to individuals primarily. So of the 18-19 K in the building, A cool 15,000 have paid every dime, So, minimize the grandiose plans and trying to funnel everything to downtown and tourist trap/expensive complimentary entertainment/food/beverage spots.

Ottawa is a freezing cold city... Minimize outdoor time, waiting time and so on.

The LRT is not Montreal's Metro or Toronto Go system. It is way more primitive and way less convenient. So stop pandering to the Tree huggers and follow some pipe dream that suddenly people are going to use it. BE REALISTIC. Understand that it is convenient for day commuters back and fro to work. And then it is cars/SUVs/pick-up trucks/sports cars/etc. for pleasure. So offer easy access and parking.

Between the tree huggers and the business man with the grandiose plans. Between the planner who thinks that we are the headquarter capital of Canada and fans will not be shelling out their own cash, we have been postulating one insane idea after another.

Earl Armstrong connects River Side South to Barehaven. I have lived here for 21 years. The amount of OTC service has gone up by a factor of 10. Traffic on Earl Armstrong is today a standstill. What does that tell you about who is using public transport?

If you like I can take picture of buses at 4-6 pm and 6-9 am. And you can see just how empty they are. Then I can send you picture of the 3 KM long traffic jam on Earl Armstrong.

 

[Beech]

You extrapolate too much.

And the rest of you don't think enough

 

[Loach]

And the rest of you don't think enough

Get back in the Won't you be my neighbour thread. That's your home. What are you even doing on a hockey chat board anyway? You ramble about everything but hockey. It's ridiculous.