It'd be even better to build a rink at the existing City Hall site and give in to the local public servants' dream of working indefinitely from home.
News Article: NCC putting in a lot of conditions for the downtown site
- Thread starter mianjo
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It'd be even better to build a rink at the existing City Hall site and give in to the local public servants' dream of working indefinitely from home.
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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I think every train station in the suburbs should have some park and ride even if it's limited in size, with the exception of the ones where it really isn't feasible (I'm thinking Jeanne D'arc and Convent Glen for example, although even Jeanne D'arc does have limited park and ride and the Bob Macquarrie).
So, for example, in the east, during the winter and non-Titans games nights, open up the parking at the Baseball stadium at Coventry, make deals with the Gloucester center, and StLaurent for parking on game nights, build parking at Hurdman, and Montreal road stops, add some more parking at Place d'orleans ect, then make your ticket to the game cover the cost of the train.
Lets say you have 15 park and rides (5 in the east, 5 in the west, 5 in the south) with on average 400 spots (is that optimistic? Trim has over 1000 and Place has over 500 for example), you've now got 6000 parking spots, add another 1500 or so downtown spots when you combine on site with walking distance street and lots, your up to 7500 spots, assuming on average each car has 2 people in it, and you've can have 15000 people who use a mixed commute of train/drive. Now, not all the spots will be used by people going to games, so thats best case I guess, but it will be useful for other events too, like Canada day, tulip and blues fest and such.
coladin
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- Sep 18, 2009
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And the closest?
I valet, and you know that the demand for valet will overwhelm availability. I've done my walks from Lot 7. I ain't going back.
A thousand parking spots will look ungainly , and they don't have the budget to go underground. They better figurte something out. Things are supposed to be better than CTC , Relapsing. You think this is better? I don't.
Hockey is non-essential, a premium entertainment investment and people aren't signing up for a worse experience. If they can make it work, then I am all for it. But it does not look likely
Relapsing
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At some point last year, L'Esplanade became my preferred choice for all those reasons. I think we tend to discount how important having an already established entertainment district would be. A lot of our other options, including the current proposed site, is going to have an air of artificiality about it. I would love for there to be variety, both in the form of businesses, and architecture, surrounding the site. Not just a bunch of modern developments. Alas.
Planting the rink at the north end of Preston has a lot of benefits, and some downsides (proximity to the fun part of Preston/Little Italy/China Town), but at least Sparks and the Market are readily accessible on the LRT from Pimisi.
Bayview is the best transit option/access to the Parkway, but the worst for before/after-game experience. Hintonburg is super accessible, but otherwise you've got Merkley Supply, a couple of Canada Heritage buildings, and a large Park which prohibits development of any entertainment district.
In any event, outside of some people around here, there is a clear desire and drive to locate the rink somewhere in the downtown core, and the game day experience will ultimately improve because of it.
coladin
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There won't be more than 500. Toronto and Montreal have that amount.
The experience is awful right now for the majority of the city. Let's get on the 417W for 45 minutes to an hour and drive to a rink in the middle of a field with car dealerships around it instead of restaurants or bars. Luckily we can park close!
Most people want a fun night out. A night out at CTC, by and large for the average person, sucks.
Parking close is a very small part of the "experience", and if it matters that much to you... you're probably not the clientele they're going to be after. They want people to come early and stay late spending money on food and booze (in the arena and around it). They don't want people who prioritize getting on the highway as quickly as possible after the game ends.
Plus, to make this work, a big component for Andlauer will be hosting way more events than just NHL games. I'd expect, for example, far more concerts. And who goes to concerts? Young people who live downtown and/or have no problem taking transit.
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TD place has 1000.
Montreal and Toronto have ~250, but there are a ton of options available (garages and surfaced lots) within 10 minutes walking.
Ottawa has those, but not as many, and they're a bit further away from the proposed site.
I'd expect a compromise of 750-1000 spots at much higher prices than what we currently have at the CTC. A portion of that cost will be sold as a "tax" to benefit transit/pedestrians.
If you currently valet... you'll be fine. You won't have to rub shoulders with the commoners on the train, don't worry.
Relapsing
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Oh I guessed you use the valet service! And that's great that you can make use of that service, but know that you're ultimately in the minority when it comes to that being a priority or fiscally possible for attendees.
Perhaps more than budget for underground parking is the land itself and the water table, but I don't have access to that info so who knows.
For what it's worth, I absolutely, unequivocally believe that a downtown rink with limited parking availability on-site will be a significant improvement for the majority. I could go on about how it would be better for me personally, but that's ultimately irrelevant to the larger discussion (even though it seems to be for some). What isn't irrelevant is that the current experience is sub-par for anyone who isn't driving, or living east of like, Nepean. Whether you're driving, using transit, or running to the CTC, the overall gameday experience outside of the rink is non existent, and that is, IMO, a bigger issue than some make it out to be.
Beyond that - the accessibility for transit users, the proximity to the core and the entertainment services it offers, the understanding that this is more than just an NHL Arena that will host events year-round - I would expect at this point in the process a number of studies have already been undertaken regarding transit capacity and use, traffic patterns before and after an event, etc... all of which would be part of the evaluation of the viability of any site before going too far down the garden path.
Relapsing
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Hard to understate the economic impact of people spending time before and after a game or event at local bars and restaurants.
That's the game day experience I long for. Not as someone who lives close to where the new rink would be, but as someone who sincerely wants to be able to have a more fulsome night out with friends and family.
What's better after a big win you just celebrated with your friends? Going out to grab a bite and a drink afterwards, or getting right into your car?
Masked
(Super/star)
Will there be a Chick-fil-a at LeBreton? If not, the current location wins.
Get some tasty chicken at the Chick-fil-a at the outlet mall, drive over to the nearby brewery or distillery for some pre-game drinks, then either walk 20 minutes to the rink or drive over.
Sounds like a decent time to me.
Tuna99
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- Sep 26, 2009
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Putting over a billion dollars in to build a stadium and relying on a broken ass O-Train that is supposed to deliver 15 000 to a stadium in an hour twice in a day is bad investing
I couldn’t imagine having to put the financial well being of my NHL franchise into the hands of the O-Train who only does 100k in 24 hours and we expect them to move 15 000 in one hour - never going to happen based on what we known
The O train doesn’t even run 7 days a week. Line 2 today moves about 25K per day - and you want this system that isn’t even 24 hours to run 30k to a studium in 3 hours - NEVER HAPPENING
I couldn’t imagine having to put the financial well being of my NHL franchise into the hands of the O-Train who only does 100k in 24 hours and we expect them to move 15 000 in one hour - never going to happen based on what we known
The O train doesn’t even run 7 days a week. Line 2 today moves about 25K per day - and you want this system that isn’t even 24 hours to run 30k to a studium in 3 hours - NEVER HAPPENING
Masked
(Super/star)
Underground sucks. The Bell Centre has underground parking and that means everyone has to go up stairs to get to their seats. The CTC is much better because the ice surface is below ground level making the main concourse at ground level. Only those in the upper levels have to use stairs/elevators to get to their seats.
Masked
(Super/star)
Nobody is expecting 15k people to take the Otrain to and from games.
Some people will still drive directly to the game.
Some people will walk over from their office buildings after work.
Some people will walk from where they live nearby.
Some people will take an Uber.
Some people will take the bus.
Some people will take the train.
Tuna99
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Otrain line for the stadium has been installed for 6 years and it doesn’t work. It’s still in pre season mode, actually it’s in rookie tournament mode
Just saying, lived in Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto and been to NHL games on their subway/Sky train/metro and I’m telling you - Ottawa won’t be able to handle this. It’ll never work
Stupid that Andlauer has to leave this to public transit when the public transit system is a bunch of warriors who can’t do anything properly besides make sure their pay check is I. The bank every 2 weeks
The idea rhat the population of Ottawa will walk on Dec, Jan, Feb to NHL games with their kids and walk home - these people are stupider then I have them credit for and I think they are all corrupt and dumb as shit
“Hey kids, it’s 5pm dark outside and it’s -16c outside, let’s head out for an hour walk to the stadium on a Tuesday night and then walk home at 10:30pm when it’s -22c and we’ll All be tucked in midnight”
I mean it does work... it's certainly had it's hiccups but it runs.
But if we're leaning into hyperbole, asking 15k people from the North, South and East ends of the city to head in the same direction on a four-lane highway—that always seems to have a lane closed—at rush hour, alongside everyone else commuting back to Kanata, to get to a rink built on farmland with nothing around it but car dealerships… seems insane. It'll never work.
And yet we've been doing it for 30 years.
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Masked
(Super/star)
Yeah there’s nothing around it. An outlet mall with a Chick-fil-a that's 30 minute walk away is not what I'd call "something".
Or were you talking about the Ultramar? Or Enterprise Rent-a-Car just off Huntmar?
Relapsing
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So what's your alternate suggestion then?
Anyways, lets breakdown some high level numbers, and I'm going to try and keep this simple so I don't get too into the weeds. I will make some assumptions, and also predicate numbers on the current Line1 capacity.
A double-car train can carry 600 passengers at a time. Assume double car train service at Pimisi station to cover the expected transit ridership before/after a game. For the sake of argument, lets also assume that there will be two double-car trains, running in opposite directions, landing at the station at the same time. Lets also assume that the City maintains the peak demand stop frequency of 5 minutes to move as many people as possible, as quickly as possible.
So every 5 minutes, Pimisi station could move 1200 passengers on the LRT alone.
To move 15k riders would require 12.5 double car trains. We'll round that up to 13, which means it would take 65 minutes to move that many people East-West.
We could also consider Bayview Station and Line 2 - that service can move 420 passengers every 12 minutes, or another 2100 passengers an hour. I would expect given the proximity of Bayview to Pimisi and proposed arena location, there will be people that will choose to walk to Bayview rather than pack into a train for one stop.
All that in mind, I think you've pegged an unreasonable number of expected transit users coming to and from a game. It doesn't account for different modes of transportation, and it doesn't account for people going out before and after a game.
Masked
(Super/star)
More like the brewery, the distillery, the trampoline park, the huge gym, Bass Pro Shops, Princess Auto, the outlet mall, the rock climbing place, and so on...
Relapsing
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I make sure to stop by Bass Pro Shops and Princess Auto before every game I go to.
Those are staples, but I always try to do 30 minutes at the trampoline place first.
Loach
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Masked
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You're just salty that none of the dealerships is a Subaru.
