News Article: NCC putting in a lot of conditions for the downtown site

[Do Make Say Think]

Your questions make a good case for keeping the current location.

The problem with the current location is it doesn't allow the team to jack up ticket prices.

With the cap set to explode, we are heading back towards "haves vs have nots". Hell, you could argue we are already there.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I want an arena with ample amounts of parking.

People who wanna take the bus or a train or bike feel free but i wanna drive.

I hope Andlauer tries for a different spot honestly let the NCC build shit majority don’t care about and move on soon if they are the end requirements.

I wouldn’t be playing this game with these radicals morons at the NCC.

The land at Lebreton flats is expensive and limited… and won’t be wasted on a huge parking lot. For every driver who won’t go,if they can’t drive, there will be 25 who won’t have a problem with using transit

 

[Big Muddy]

The problem with the current location is it doesn't allow the team to jack up ticket prices.

With the cap set to explode, we are heading back towards "haves vs have nots". Hell, you could argue we are already there.

Why do you say that & how would you know that? That seems like more of an opinion versus fact.

 

[Relapsing]

You're the one on the high horse that I tried to knock you off of by taking the piss, which you took seriously.



Yes, you're the only one who can understand city planning and infrastructure development. Not on a high horse at all.

We understand that stuff. We just don't want to deal with the city's horrific implementation of it. We want to be able to not worry about trains and buses that never show up or are agonizingly slow.

Have you read some of the demands or ideas being floated by drivers in this thread? Whether it's turning the parkway into a highway, widening roads, or installing thousands or parking spaces, all in an effort to cater to 40~ evenings of temporary peak road traffic, then they deeply do not understand city planning and infrastructure development.

The selfishness of the ask is galling: As if the new arena is solely there to host NHL games during the winter. That kind of ask puts Glebe NIMBYism to shame ffs.

This City is full of people who demand investment in infrastructure, only to turn around and not actually use it because it doesn't specifically cater to their desire to not use a bus or walk as little as humanly possible. I haven't been in a major city anywhere in the world in which you didn't have to use a mix of transit options to get from A to B.

The only way to reduce congestion is to spread out the options people have for getting around the City, or in this case, leaving the arena after an event. Transit is, and must, be a major component to moving people to and from the rink. It's non-negotiable if the arena is located downtown, on the backbone transit line.

Whether it's the current proposed location, Bayview, or somewhere else along the transit line, people are going to have to get used to the idea of parking and riding, or some version of it, to get to and from the arena.

 

[jbeck5]

Your questions make a good case for keeping the current location.

Nah. A central location with good parking, on or close to the highway with lots of parking would be great.

I would never suggest you build it so far out that 95% of the population is in one direction.

(I understand why it is where it is now) But no. Keeping it where it is is much worse.

 

[jbeck5]

If the transit option involves a bus then it is a non-starter for most people. But if it is just a train to a park and ride or street parking, and then your car from there then that is the best option. You avoid the insane traffic jam of getting out of the core but then have your car to take the most efficient way home.

Back in the 80's my dad used to drive us to Expos games from our home just east of Brockville. Initially we'd try to find street parking around the big O, or a few times used the underground parking. Eventually realized that taking the Metro west for 15 minutes and then hopping in the car was just so much better.

Which is why they need to have park and rides at St Laurent and Blair, even if just dedicating a section of the lot on game days/evenings.

So many people south of the Ottawa River, east of the Rideau river, but not walking distance to Blair or St Laurent...like 100s of thousands of people... They don't want to take a local bus...but they would drive to the park and ride 5-10 mins away. They need to have parking.

 

[jbeck5]

And pissing on people's lawns is what, neighborly? Your mom help you up into that high horse?

This thread has really brought out the suburban fans who don't care about or understand city planning and infrastructure development. You all chose to live in the suburbs. That's your problem. Don't expect the entire city to cater to your need to drive to a hockey game 5 times a year.

Lets make the parkway into a highway!

Lets widen more streets to deal with single event traffic!

More parking garages!

If the city cent design transit so that I never have to transfer ever, then I'm never using it!

View attachment 1039952

They didn't start that bragging fest with the pissing comment. It was in response to someone else who bragged. It was the expected response. The fact you got so angry means you should be angry at the original comment...but you stayed silent. Biased, clearly. You have to make it less obvious that you're one sided on the debate or else people won't take you seriously.

 

[jbeck5]

To be fair, the current rink is right next to a highway and has ample parking yet the experience of going to a game is unenjoyable for a large chunk of this city (and Gatineau) and many, many people choose not to go.

It’s great for those of you in Kanata. It sucks for the rest of us. Without a doubt a bottom 5 experience in the league.

So regardless of how many parking spots there are, the bar for improvement is low and a downtown rink will 100% be better.

We're in agreement...make it more central...then people from Orleans or Gatineau wouldn't complain about the drive. Lots of parking. Then we're golden.

 

[coladin]

What do suburbanites have against using transit?

That aside, it's funny to see anyone in here complaining about pathing and accessibility... Like this isn't a year round events venue that has to cater to the entire city and the various ways people will want to access it.

LEED is the shit. There are other buildings in the City (notably Bayview yards) that are held to that standard and it's better for it.

Like it or not, creating massive parking lots and structures is not, should not, and cannot be a core ask for this rink.

From someone who lives a stones throw from the new location, I'll be laughing while you're stuck in traffic as I stumble home drunk.

Public transport is extremely slow

 

[jbeck5]

People don't hate transit. People hate slow unreliable transit. And Ottawa's transit is slow and unreliable.

Yes, sorry.

I would take an express bus to work instead of driving. I will not do transfers and have the whole thing take multiple times what it takes me to drive.

 

[SanderSen]

And also, If you just miss that local bus on the way back? Bam, wait an extra 30 mins at 1030pm to 11:00pm on a Tuesday in January when you have to be up at 6am for work the next day.

That's why having driving infrastructure is important? Traffic means an extra 10-15 mins to get out of the downtown core? Cool. That's not the end of the world. I'm in my comfy car and will be in my garage 10-15 mins later....

Beats adding 30 mins to transit...and than another 30 mins if you miss the local bus.

For me, the only really feasible way for a smooth public transit experience is to provide spots for parking at O-train spots. I am willing to ride a train from Orleans, if I am forced into a bus situation, no thanks.

For folks without a car, or access to a car ride to a train station, that has always been a longer trip.

 

[jbeck5]

For me, the only really feasible way for a smooth public transit experience is to provide spots for parking at O-train spots. I am willing to ride a train from Orleans, if I am forced into a bus situation, no thanks.

For folks without a car, or access to a car ride to a train station, that has always been a longer trip.

I agree...but also at Blair and st Laurent.

Half of Orleans is east of place dorleans and would be back tracking to use that park and ride. Especially the half near Innes that could take Innes to the 417 and be at Blair at the same time as it would take them to get to place dorleans...but then still be way back in Orleans.

They need park and rides at Blair and st Laurent.

 

[jbeck5]

I’ll begin with saying I haven’t all the necessary local info or answers, but I’ll ask some questions that ‘seem' reasonable.

I’m sensing that people/posters are getting hung up about having parking very close to the arena. The emphasis is on the word “very”.

But, if there were “shuttle” buses that ran from parking buildings or lots that ran very frequently (let’s say every 5 - 10 minutes). Those parking structures/lots could a few miles away (let’s say within 3 or 4 miles for the sake of argument) and could be strategically located near main arteries that can handle traffic.

Private businesses (often restaurants) used to do this, and I think some still do. Think of that basic concept but on a much larger scale with NCC/City of Ottawa involvement in partnership with private business as well.

Maybe people want to step out of their car and walk just a few yards to the arena? I’m not sure what people expect.

If people want massive parking lots within let’s say a few hundred yards of the arena, then that seems to make an argument for continuing to use the current site in Kanata or at least another site more on the outskirts where large parcels of empty land is available.

Most people park within a few hundred yards of their building where they work.

The idea to have parking within a few hundred yards of the building is not crazy. Build parking garages and charge $23 for parking like all the lots downtown do. They make a killing.

So why would anyone be against a bunch of parking being available near the stadium...or we also against parking being available near our office buildings? What's the difference? I don't understand why anyone would be against parking being available for all who want it. Why does it harm others if some want to drive and park close?

Parking can literally be underground and not take up a footprint, and is a money maker generating profit. Why are people so against parking being available?

 

[jbeck5]

The land at Lebreton flats is expensive and limited… and won’t be wasted on a huge parking lot. For every driver who won’t go,if they can’t drive, there will be 25 who won’t have a problem with using transit

The ratio is not 1-25 for who wants to drive vs take transit.

Something like 80-90% of people drive to work. 10-20% use transit.

Use those figures for people to go to the game.

So in reality, for every 8-9 driving, you would have 1-2 taking the bus.

Also, why do you think parking has to take up huge spaces? It doesn't downtown. It's almost all underground...just do that at LeBreton. Have an underground parking to the north for Quebecers, to the south for southern people. One in the east. One in the west end of the lot. That way every lot is already in the direction they're traveling and don't have to cross over each other and add congestion.

 

[coladin]

This whole idea of a downtown arena, and Ottawa needing a downtwon arena, is dumb.

Ottawa is not designed for a downtwon arena, and it never will be. It will be a massive collapse of a fan base once they find out they cannot get there reliably and quickly. You cannot unscramble the egg. Greber plan f***ed this city so badly, and now , contravening the design of the actualy city, not this mythical city with this mythical arena with mythical tranist, they want to put an arena downtown in a city dominated by cars, not because Ottawa has some car fanatics, but due to transit sucking balls, unreliable, not enought routes, and very slow and inefficient.

This arena has to be put where there is parking and LRT. That's how this will work. I ain't walking 10 minutes anywhere in the winter, f*** that. And all those people in the first bowl won't either. If they don't construct this thing with a stop underneath it, then don't waste your money and time.

This is the stupidest city every designed becasue we let some guy from France dictate to dumb Canadians of the day on how to make Ottawa a capital city, and royally f***ed up with removing what was a transit , train friendly city, streetcar city, into this suburban shitshow because the city loves DC money. They priced people out of the privileged core of within the Greenbelt and forced people to build outside of it. And commute. They should have grenaded that plan and instead of building Kanata, that suburb should be in the bloody Greenbelt. But you cannot unscramble the egg.

No one with any money lives downtown, and the clientele of the Senators resides outside of the Greenbelt. And with the condo market collapse, all those towers that were propsed tobe built will not see the light of day. No one wants shoeboxes downtown . They want homes for families and family sized dwellings in those new downtwon buildings. Byt let's cater to the 1,000 Sens fans in ....Gatineau? Well at least they are closer now.

I hope the NCC delays this thing as it will buy me time to get to the CTC for the next 10 years. Stutzle will never play a game in this new arena. Neither will Sanderson. Fine by me

 

[Masked]

They need park and rides at Blair and st Laurent.

There is a park and ride at Blair. It's a small one and its across the highway but that's why there's the pedestrian bridge crossing the highway.

UPDATE: it's a gold permit only lot and permits are unavailable.

Carry on.

 

[Relapsing]

They didn't start that bragging fest with the pissing comment. It was in response to someone else who bragged. It was the expected response. The fact you got so angry means you should be angry at the original comment...but you stayed silent. Biased, clearly. You have to make it less obvious that you're one sided on the debate or else people won't take you seriously.

Don't mistake derision for anger.

 

[Masked]

No one with any money lives downtown,

Doesn't Andlauer live downtown overlooking Dow's Lake?

 

[Relapsing]

Public transport is extremely slow

So is gridlock traffic

 

[jbeck5]

Don't mistake derision for anger.

Ok, I won't. So you're mocking the people who take a piss on your lawn.

I'm sure they care.

 

[flyingfingers]

No one with any money lives downtown, and the clientele of the Senators resides outside of the Greenbelt. And with the condo market collapse, all those towers that were propsed tobe built will not see the light of day. No one wants shoeboxes downtown.

Haha what? Rockliffe? New Edinburgh? Dows Lake? The Glebe? Westboro? Old Ottawa South? Island Park?

That's where the money is, and those are the people that Andlauer and the Senators will try to cater to moving forward. We're talking less seats, higher ticket prices, more amenities. These people want to go to a nice restaurant before and/or after the game, and don't care about parking spots because they'll happily spring for an Uber.

The lower bowl will be the rich people from the neighborhoods I mentioned, the upper bowl will be young people who have zero interest of schlepping out to Kanata so they can sit in a parking lot and maybe stop by Jack Astors at Centrum after the game.

They aren't concerned about the people who stretched themselves to buy a $700k townhome in Arnprior, took out a 96 month loan on an F150 so they could haul their golf clubs to mens night at Greensmere, and who's biggest priority is leaving the game with 5 minutes left so they can get home and get Netflix on before 10pm.

 

[jbeck5]

This whole idea of a downtown arena, and Ottawa needing a downtwon arena, is dumb.

Ottawa is not designed for a downtwon arena, and it never will be. It will be a massive collapse of a fan base once they find out they cannot get there reliably and quickly. You cannot unscramble the egg. Greber plan f***ed this city so badly, and now , contravening the design of the actualy city, not this mythical city with this mythical arena with mythical tranist, they want to put an arena downtown in a city dominated by cars, not because Ottawa has some car fanatics, but due to transit sucking balls, unreliable, not enought routes, and very slow and inefficient.

This arena has to be put where there is parking and LRT. That's how this will work. I ain't walking 10 minutes anywhere in the winter, f*** that. And all those people in the first bowl won't either. If they don't construct this thing with a stop underneath it, then don't waste your money and time.

This is the stupidest city every designed becasue we let some guy from France dictate to dumb Canadians of the day on how to make Ottawa a capital city, and royally f***ed up with removing what was a transit , train friendly city, streetcar city, into this suburban shitshow because the city loves DC money. They priced people out of the privileged core of within the Greenbelt and forced people to build outside of it. And commute. They should have grenaded that plan and instead of building Kanata, that suburb should be in the bloody Greenbelt. But you cannot unscramble the egg.

No one with any money lives downtown, and the clientele of the Senators resides outside of the Greenbelt. And with the condo market collapse, all those towers that were propsed tobe built will not see the light of day. No one wants shoeboxes downtown . They want homes for families and family sized dwellings in those new downtwon buildings. Byt let's cater to the 1,000 Sens fans in ....Gatineau? Well at least they are closer now.

I hope the NCC delays this thing as it will buy me time to get to the CTC for the next 10 years. Stutzle will never play a game in this new arena. Neither will Sanderson. Fine by me

I think downtown, but close to the highway, with a train stop underneath it and lots of underground parking garages would have been great. But that requires buying a few of those city lots full of old decrepit looking buildings and tearing them down to build the stadium there. And you can't force sales...

 

[jbeck5]

Doesn't Andlauer live downtown overlooking Dow's Lake?

Does lake isn't downtown...it's well out onto the other side of the highway.

Downtown is the dozen blocks around the Parliament buildings with those 20-30 storey office towers. Like between Elgin and Bronson and North of Gloucester.

South of Gloucester you start to get houses. Nepean street, one block south of Gloucester has many houses. Not downtown in my opinion. Within the city center though which extends out by the highway and stuff. Maybe that's what you meant.

 

[jbeck5]

Haha what? Rockliffe? New Edinburgh? Dows Lake? The Glebe? Westboro? Old Ottawa South? Island Park?

That's where the money is, and those are the people that Andlauer and the Senators will try to cater to moving forward. We're talking less seats, higher ticket prices, more amenities. These people want to go to a nice restaurant before and/or after the game, and don't care about parking spots because they'll happily spring for an Uber.

The lower bowl will be the rich people from the neighborhoods I mentioned, the upper bowl will be young people who have zero interest of schlepping out to Kanata so they can sit in a parking lot and maybe stop by Jack Astors at Centrum after the game.

They aren't concerned about the people who stretched themselves to buy a $700k townhome in Arnprior, took out a 96 month lease on an F150 so they could haul their golf clubs to mens night at Greensmere, and who's biggest priority is leaving the game with 5 minutes left so they can get home before 10pm.

Those aren't downtown...those are just Ottawa proper...as in within the city of Ottawa limits, before amalgamation...

But not all of old Ottawa is "downtown"... People who live on island park or rockliffe don't say they live downtown. They say they live in rockliffe. People who say they work downtown, don't work in rockliffe...they work near the Parliament buildings.

 

[flyingfingers]

Those aren't downtown...those are just Ottawa proper...as in within the city of Ottawa limits, before amalgamation...

But not all of old Ottawa is "downtown"...

No, but a "downtown" arena will be much more convenient and enticing for the people who live in those neighbourhoods (aka the people who have money to spend).

These people have no interest driving out to Kanata and hitting up Centrum before the game, and these are the people the Senators want as their clientele.