NCAA to allow CHL players to play hockey?

[TheLegend]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843802502799733012

 

[jigglysquishy]

There's going to be at least one team that will end up in the WHL. But a more humble league similar to a wealthier SJHL is the most likely future.

I could see a second island team being attractive just with travel.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844391400223408223

USHL commissioner interview

 

[jetsmooseice]

There's going to be at least one team that will end up in the WHL. But a more humble league similar to a wealthier SJHL is the most likely future.

I could see a second island team being attractive just with travel.

Who would end up in the WHL other than Penticton? Penticton is the only place in the BCHL that arguably has all the ingredients making them pretty much a slam dunk... good market size, big modern building, good track record, not infringing on another market.

Every place else is missing at least one piece. Chilliwack is very close to Langley, is a second Lower Mainland team going to be allowed to fly? Cranbrook has the building, but it is on the smaller size and the WHL has struggled there in the past. Brooks, Vernon and Nanaimo don't have sufficient buildings - if they get WHL teams, then bring back the Winnipeg ICE with an apology from the league.

The WHL could probably stand to add a couple of teams given that the talent pool will expand with the NCAA's changes, but they aren't adding an entire division. At least not yet.

 

[MeHateHe]

Who would end up in the WHL other than Penticton? Penticton is the only place in the BCHL that arguably has all the ingredients making them pretty much a slam dunk... good market size, big modern building, good track record, not infringing on another market.

Every place else is missing at least one piece. Chilliwack is very close to Langley, is a second Lower Mainland team going to be allowed to fly? Cranbrook has the building, but it is on the smaller size and the WHL has struggled there in the past. Brooks, Vernon and Nanaimo don't have sufficient buildings - if they get WHL teams, then bring back the Winnipeg ICE with an apology from the league.

The WHL could probably stand to add a couple of teams given that the talent pool will expand with the NCAA's changes, but they aren't adding an entire division. At least not yet.

Penticton is too close to Kelowna; again, they will have too much crossover on corporate sponsors and Kelowna's owner is strong enough to have a virtual - if not literal - veto on another team in the south Okanagan. There never zero chance of anything (outside of the Leafs winning a second round) but the likelihood of Penticton coming to the WHL is very low.

Chilliwack remains a viable option. Its proximity to Langley is less of a barrier than Penticton's proximity to Kelowna, because there isn't the same interconnectedness between the two cities. Chilliwack sees itself as separate from Vancouver entirely, where as Langley, while still in the valley, is more drawn to the rest of the lower mainland. Nanaimo remains an option if they can find someone willing to risk their own money on a rink. Frank Crane is too small (still 50% bigger than that Winnipeg rink), although one suspects the league would gladly bend their rules on a promise of that a new rink was coming, especially if they could drive a knife into the BCHL in the process - and eliminating the Clippers franchise would sting the Junior A league.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Penticton is too close to Kelowna; again, they will have too much crossover on corporate sponsors and Kelowna's owner is strong enough to have a virtual - if not literal - veto on another team in the south Okanagan. There never zero chance of anything (outside of the Leafs winning a second round) but the likelihood of Penticton coming to the WHL is very low.

Chilliwack remains a viable option. Its proximity to Langley is less of a barrier than Penticton's proximity to Kelowna, because there isn't the same interconnectedness between the two cities. Chilliwack sees itself as separate from Vancouver entirely, where as Langley, while still in the valley, is more drawn to the rest of the lower mainland. Nanaimo remains an option if they can find someone willing to risk their own money on a rink. Frank Crane is too small (still 50% bigger than that Winnipeg rink), although one suspects the league would gladly bend their rules on a promise of that a new rink was coming, especially if they could drive a knife into the BCHL in the process - and eliminating the Clippers franchise would sting the Junior A league.

I suppose the strongest argument for Penticton is the Vees' existence as a thriving entity... they already have sponsors, ticket buyers and an overall fanbase. That more or less proves their viability, it would not be a huge step up from where they are now to the WHL.

I guess Chilliwack could work but it seems harder for junior hockey to break through in urban areas which tend to have much more crowded sports and entertainment markets. The Giants don't really have it easy, adding another team to the mix could be a recipe for trouble, especially when you consider that the Giants, Abbotsford Canucks and Chilliwack would be competing for basically much of the same fanbase.

Nanaimo would be in the same situation that Winnipeg was in... a desirable market without a proper junior arena. I guess the big difference is that the ICE couldn't really get anyone to build them an arena because they were so far down the sports pecking order here. But it's easy to imagine Nanaimo building a new arena as a major civic amenity that the WHL could use. I wonder if the WHL would be prepared to let a team play at Frank Crane for several years until that happens, though.

 

[MeHateHe]

I suppose the strongest argument for Penticton is the Vees' existence as a thriving entity... they already have sponsors, ticket buyers and an overall fanbase. That more or less proves their viability, it would not be a huge step up from where they are now to the WHL.

It isn't that Penticton couldn't support the team. It's that Bruce Holland, who owns the Rockets, is also the WHL board chair, and he would never let someone come in and carve out something from what he sees as his territory.

I guess Chilliwack could work but it seems harder for junior hockey to break through in urban areas which tend to have much more crowded sports and entertainment markets. The Giants don't really have it easy, adding another team to the mix could be a recipe for trouble, especially when you consider that the Giants, Abbotsford Canucks and Chilliwack would be competing for basically much of the same fanbase.

I meant to add in that Chiefs have a stranglehold on the market, and the building. I don't think they're terribly interested in another foray in the WHL.

But it's easy to imagine Nanaimo building a new arena as a major civic amenity that the WHL could use. I wonder if the WHL would be prepared to let a team play at Frank Crane for several years until that happens, though.

Frank Crane is a decent rink that seats about 2,300, just a touch smaller than Prince Albert's barn, but Nanaimo could absolutely support a larger facility, one that could attract shows (aside from hockey). Keep in mind that the population from Duncan to the north end of the island - which would be the market for arena concerts and other shows - is in the range of 400,000, so while that might not be where hockey fans come from, it would certainly factor into the economics of building an events facility that includes a hockey arena. Voters resoundingly rejected a referendum on a new arena, so any new building will have to be built with private money. But if the WHL Clippers or Islanders or whatever could survive a couple of years in Frank Crane while someone was rounding up private funding for a new facility, it could turn into a real draw for the mid- and north-Island.

 

[jetsmooseice]

It isn't that Penticton couldn't support the team. [snip]

Thank you for those insights, that was an exceptionally informative post.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

The Giants don't really have it easy, adding another team to the mix could be a recipe for trouble, especially when you consider that the Giants, Abbotsford Canucks and Chilliwack would be competing for basically much of the same fanbase.

As someone who has lived in the GVRD, I doubt that the Giants, Abby Canucks and Chilliwack WHL team would be fighting *that* much for space if it came to fruition. Langley is rapidly growing (especially the area around the LEC, as my friend would attest) and for most people, Abbotsford is simply a far flung place that's better served driven through on the way to Cultus Lake, or towards the interior. Even with the big club downtown, most people in Surrey, Richmond, Delta, etc. aren't at all making the trip down Highway 1 to watch Abby Canucks hockey, and that's being generous. The same can be said for Chilliwack, tbh.

Frank Crane is a decent rink that seats about 2,300, just a touch smaller than Prince Albert's barn, but Nanaimo could absolutely support a larger facility, one that could attract shows (aside from hockey). Keep in mind that the population from Duncan to the north end of the island - which would be the market for arena concerts and other shows - is in the range of 400,000, so while that might not be where hockey fans come from, it would certainly factor into the economics of building an events facility that includes a hockey arena. Voters resoundingly rejected a referendum on a new arena, so any new building will have to be built with private money. But if the WHL Clippers or Islanders or whatever could survive a couple of years in Frank Crane while someone was rounding up private funding for a new facility, it could turn into a real draw for the mid- and north-Island.

Yeah, I feel like this is the best case scenario for Nanaimo as a WHL expansion team, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the WHL ultimately demands for any team to begin to prevent another Winnipeg fiasco.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848727529680404702

USHL commish talks

 

[oldunclehue]

After a few weeks of this, been talking to quite a few of those involved in the Junior A landscape in the prairies. Some major cause for concern but lots of unknowns:

- Staff/Managers are of the belief that MJHL/SJHL/AJHL will have to do a MAJOR change on wha their leagues will be to survive.
- Leagues will have to as a whole lower the average age of teams to 16-17-18
- Try and develop some of the better younger players and advance them to WHL teams
- Otherwise they will simply turn in to Junior B leagues with players not having any chance at advancement.
- NCAA teams are already trying to align themselves with CHL teams as feeders. (NCAA has 10 kids committed to scholarships, now WHL/OHL/QMJHL teams will be asked to give roster spots to those kids for development)
- Top 6 Junior A players from most teams will go to CHL while bottom 6 players from CHL teams will be bumped down to Junior A
- Junior A hockey will need to find a new selling point to survive and only way to do so is to sell it as a development league.
- U18AAA leagues will be decimated and trickle down affect to other leagues.

Many Junior A teams will end up folding as its hard to pay bills with costs going up and if the on ice product suffers then sponsors and fans won't support as much.

Going to be a challenging decade for Junior A leagues in Canada, likely the NAHL as well.

USHL/BCHL and CHL will be the popular routes and only options for lots of players moving forward.

 

[Corso]

After a few weeks of this, been talking to quite a few of those involved in the Junior A landscape in the prairies. Some major cause for concern but lots of unknowns:

- Staff/Managers are of the belief that MJHL/SJHL/AJHL will have to do a MAJOR change on wha their leagues will be to survive.
- Leagues will have to as a whole lower the average age of teams to 16-17-18
- Try and develop some of the better younger players and advance them to WHL teams
- Otherwise they will simply turn in to Junior B leagues with players not having any chance at advancement.
- NCAA teams are already trying to align themselves with CHL teams as feeders. (NCAA has 10 kids committed to scholarships, now WHL/OHL/QMJHL teams will be asked to give roster spots to those kids for development)
- Top 6 Junior A players from most teams will go to CHL while bottom 6 players from CHL teams will be bumped down to Junior A
- Junior A hockey will need to find a new selling point to survive and only way to do so is to sell it as a development league.
- U18AAA leagues will be decimated and trickle down affect to other leagues.

Many Junior A teams will end up folding as its hard to pay bills with costs going up and if the on ice product suffers then sponsors and fans won't support as much.

Going to be a challenging decade for Junior A leagues in Canada, likely the NAHL as well.

USHL/BCHL and CHL will be the popular routes and only options for lots of players moving forward.

Yes, the implication for those downstream will be profound. In the U.S., there almost seems to be a sense of paralysis among the tier II and below Junior leagues. They really do not know how this will shake out, but they know the impact on them will be mostly negative.
Many in the USHL are somewhat hopeful that some type of affiliation can be reached with the CHL.
Those I know that have connections within the CHL are adamant that the CHL will not want to become a feeder league to the NCAA like the USHL and have directly been told that certain CHL(OHL) franchises were approached by a very prominent NCAA program to work out a development agreement to hold players until 18 or 19 before sending them off to college. Those clubs basically told the NCAA school to go and pound sand.

The CHL seems to believe that those who go on to play college will only be those who have exhausted their junior eligibility.

We will see how this all plays out and the next CBA will give us clear indications as to which way this goes.

 

[Bjindaho]

After a few weeks of this, been talking to quite a few of those involved in the Junior A landscape in the prairies. Some major cause for concern but lots of unknowns:

- Staff/Managers are of the belief that MJHL/SJHL/AJHL will have to do a MAJOR change on wha their leagues will be to survive.
- Leagues will have to as a whole lower the average age of teams to 16-17-18
- Try and develop some of the better younger players and advance them to WHL teams
- Otherwise they will simply turn in to Junior B leagues with players not having any chance at advancement.
- NCAA teams are already trying to align themselves with CHL teams as feeders. (NCAA has 10 kids committed to scholarships, now WHL/OHL/QMJHL teams will be asked to give roster spots to those kids for development)
- Top 6 Junior A players from most teams will go to CHL while bottom 6 players from CHL teams will be bumped down to Junior A
- Junior A hockey will need to find a new selling point to survive and only way to do so is to sell it as a development league.
- U18AAA leagues will be decimated and trickle down affect to other leagues.

Many Junior A teams will end up folding as its hard to pay bills with costs going up and if the on ice product suffers then sponsors and fans won't support as much.

Going to be a challenging decade for Junior A leagues in Canada, likely the NAHL as well.

USHL/BCHL and CHL will be the popular routes and only options for lots of players moving forward.

No offense, but BCHL has no selling points at all if it is trying to compare to the USHL and CHL.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Those I know that have connections within the CHL are adamant that the CHL will not want to become a feeder league to the NCAA like the USHL and have directly been told that certain CHL(OHL) franchises were approached by a very prominent NCAA program to work out a development agreement to hold players until 18 or 19 before sending them off to college. Those clubs basically told the NCAA school to go and pound sand.

It's funny how once upon a time, the junior hockey system within Canada was essentially farm teams for the development of teenagers by NHL teams, and with this, there's a circular return to sponsorships and major junior farm teams, except focused on putting kids towards D1 hockey.

Truthfully, that idea seems predicated on exponential growth of D1 hockey, especially in the south and west, that is completely out of line with what is actually happening in educational institution offices across the US, and that's cutting non-revenue or revenue losing sports in order to feed the beast of CFB and CBB to a lesser extent, and trying to justify conference TV revenue with hare-brained realignment ideas.