NCAA to allow CHL players to play hockey?

[Bubbles]

Former CHL players ask judge to stop major junior leagues from holding drafts | TSN

Two former Western Hockey League players involved in a lawsuit that is attempting to end the entry draft system in major junior hockey have detailed their experiences playing in the WHL in affidavits and argue prospective players should have the right to decide which teams they play for.

www.tsn.ca

Essentially just two butthurt guys who rent good enough to make a career in hockey.

That's such a strange case. It's been filed in New York State which has no jurisdiction on a Canadian league. I suspect this will be thrown out of court or even completely ignored.

 

[adsfan]

Forsure, whatever you want to call it, I'm just saying he had everything supplied or paid for about 80%.

What's the actual reason NIL money can't be paid? is it because student visas can't make money working? I don't think that's in the spirit of the rule/law. Should probably change as well.

This should bump AHL pay as well. Like we saw with Cutter and RM, I would also rather sit at Michigan being a big deal with lots of "entertainment" playing 30ish games a year getting good NIL money, then playing for 90K riding the bus in the AHL.... I can understand these players point.

Milwaukee rides a bus for games in Chicago (90 minutes), Rockford and Iowa (Des Moines, 4 or 5 hours). I believe that Grand Rapids is 4 hours. Usually, if the Admirals go to Cleveland (7 hours), they fly. The team plays better by flying versus driving at that distance.

 

[Yukon Joe]

That's such a strange case. It's been filed in New York State which has no jurisdiction on a Canadian league. I suspect this will be thrown out of court or even completely ignored.

I don't think it's quite so simple, although absolutely CHL will argue that New York State is the wrong venue for any such lawsuit. But the CHL does have operations in the US - there are franchises in Michigan, Washington State and Oregon. As well the CHL does draft players from the US, including New York state.

I think the better question is one of standing. The players involved have already aged out of the CHL. It would be like if I suddenly filed a lawsuit against the CHL demanding they stop the draft - who the hell am I? I'm in my 40s.

I suspect there's some vulnerability here though. The way the pro leagues can justify their drafts is because it is part of a CBA - that the players have agreed to it. There is however no CHLPA (even though there was an attempt to form one), and no CBA.

By the way - the one thing I guarantee the CHL will not do is ignore this lawsuit.

 

[Bubbles]

I think yeah it would be a series of steps before even a thought of abolishing a junior draft happens.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1842316481477931162

And there it is.

 

[TheLegend]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1842316481477931162

And there it is.

^^^^

Connected story....

Source: Vote upcoming that could clear way for major junior players in NCAA hockey - College Hockey | USCHO.com

The NCAA is prepared to vote on a proposal that will allow Canadian major junior players to be immediately eligible to play college hockey.

www.uscho.com

 

[mouser]

If they’re calling an emergency vote that pretty much guarantees it will pass.

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

BCHL is cooked. Wonder if a merger with the CHL is a possibility?

 

[Boonk]

BCHL is cooked. Wonder if a merger with the CHL is a possibility?

If anything the bigger teams with deeper pockets and better junior facilities just go to the WHL. Thered be no reason to stay at a lower level league if the NCAA-CHL barrier is down, and these teams are good NCAA development programs. (Penticton, Chilliwack, Brooks, etc.)

 

[Bubbles]

BCHL is cooked. Wonder if a merger with the CHL is a possibility?

The potential ruling is still about 20+ players. I feel like a record on repeat but nothing has been said about u20 players in the CHL.

 

[Corso]

The potential ruling is still about 20+ players. I feel like a record on repeat but nothing has been said about u20 players in the CHL.

This is due to the standard player agreement contracts across the three leagues in the CHL. The NCAA will allow eligibility for all players, not just those over the age of 19. Those U-20 players securing a release from their CHL clubs is another matter entirely.

This however, is only the beginning of sone pretty big changes. Expect to begin hearing rumors of changes to the NHL-CHL agreement and the ability of CHL players to play in the AHL.

BCHL is cooked. Wonder if a merger with the CHL is a possibility?

BCHL will be under tremendous pressure to return back into the fold of H.C. but yes, in the long term expect to see many of the top franchises in the BCHL to be absorbed into the WHL.

 

[kyle44]

With Al the money in college sports and having virtually all the bells and whistles of pro sports and tv deals there simply no way that you can be a pure as snow amateur. The whole anti nil “ players are entitled “ crybabies need to get there heads out of the sand.

 

[GKJ]

Is there incentive for the WHL to absorb any BCHL teams?

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Is there incentive for the WHL to absorb any BCHL teams?

Vernon and Penticton, I think you could make a solid case for. Maybe Chilliwack, but I don't know how deeply the Dub wants to re-do that experiment again.

 

[GKJ]

Vernon and Penticton, I think you could make a solid case for. Maybe Chilliwack, but I don't know how deeply the Dub wants to re-do that experiment again.

Yah I know they were in Chilliwack and they moved.

Locals know the area better than I, but when I think of expansion, it’s all about the footprint expanding.

Easy to forget the league has more teams in the US than any province.

 

[Bubbles]

This is due to the standard player agreement contracts across the three leagues in the CHL. The NCAA will allow eligibility for all players, not just those over the age of 19. Those U-20 players securing a release from their CHL clubs is another matter entirely.

This however, is only the beginning of sone pretty big changes. Expect to begin hearing rumors of changes to the NHL-CHL agreement and the ability of CHL players to play in the AHL.

Not once has the NCAA has ever said they will allow all eligibility. In fact I'm pretty sure on Monday they will state this is specifically for players that have finished or terminated their CHL agreement.

The NHL/CHL will not stand idly by and let the NCAA recruit U20 players that freely. Like you said, there's a lot of money involved.

Is there incentive for the WHL to absorb any BCHL teams?

Maybe some of the bigger teams like Penticton or Chilliwack. Some of the "bigger" Alberta teams like Brooks just isn't big enough. Some of the BCHL teams don't have the population/facilities to be considered WHL worthy. Some of the smaller clubs might drop to Junior B.

Although the demise of the BCHL is greatly exaggerated on here.

 

[DoyleG]

Is there incentive for the WHL to absorb any BCHL teams?

None.

They don't add to the value of the league and it would only further dilute the talent pool.

The AJHL defectors know they're screwed, as does the BCHL.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I'd have assumed the BCHL knew this was a possibility when they did what they did in regards to H.C. - they must have a plan ready to go.

 

[MeHateHe]

The BCHL is going to respond to the availability and interest of players, and nothing in this decision changes the number of players who are looking for a place to play. One suspects that 18/19 year old players who have a scholarship in hand might want to play at a higher level if that's an option - and that means going to major junior. But is a 17-year-old with a scholarship in hand going to want to play three years in the WHL before going to college? - assuming this is only for 20-year-olds. It will be curious what the college coaches think - would they prefer their recruits playing against more higher-end talent in the WHL or easing into a Junior A environment where they're not playing 6 minutes a night?

So no, this doesn't mean the death of the BCHL or the death of Junior A. It may may return Junior A's place to a place where the classic late bloomer goes, or it may lead to more players using Junior A as a springboard to major junior (as was the case in the 1980s and 1990s), giving them an option to go to college if major junior doesn't work out.

I don't see the WHL wanting to absorb BCHL clubs into their league. Penticton and Vernon are both pretty close to Kelowna and Vernon is roughly halfway between Kelowna and Kamloops. "Territory" is a loaded word, because people think it refers to fanbases, but it more refers to corporate sponsors, and having four teams in that tight market would be problematic. Maybe this would be the thing that would entice the WHL to accept Nanaimo despite their rink, which doesn't meet current size requirements for an expansion franchise.

The other factor in all this is that one of the reasons the BCHL detached itself from Hockey Canada is because they didn't like that the WHL had more leeway in bringing in players from outside of BC to play. There have been rumours for a decade that the top BCHL clubs (more specifically, the teams with the richest owners, like Nanaimo, Vernon, Salmon Arm and a few others) had wanted to split off and form their own super Junior A league, essentially competing with the WHL. Those owners remain, and that attitude remains, that the BCHL is on par with the WHL, and should be treated the same.

 

[Bubbles]

But is a 17-year-old with a scholarship in hand going to want to play three years in the WHL before going to college? - assuming this is only for 20-year-olds. It will be curious what the college coaches think - would they prefer their recruits playing against more higher-end talent in the WHL or easing into a Junior A environment where they're not playing 6 minutes a night?

Well exactly. Why would I play a few more years in the CHL when I can play college hockey at 18 (or 17 if you speed up schooling). Logically makes no sense.

I would assume that recruiting a 20-year old who is more than likely going to play 4 years with your program, than say a hot shot one-and-done like Hagens or Mack. Going to have to ask college coach what they would prefer.

So no, this doesn't mean the death of the BCHL or the death of Junior A. It may may return Junior A's place to a place where the classic late bloomer goes, or it may lead to more players using Junior A as a springboard to major junior (as was the case in the 1980s and 1990s), giving them an option to go to college if major junior doesn't work out.

The vitriol some people here have for the BCHL is...surprising. What did the league do to you personally? Not sure why they take pleasure in seeing it's downfall. Not saying you @MeHateHe.

 

[MeHateHe]

The vitriol some people here have for the BCHL is...surprising. What did the league do to you personally? Not sure why they take pleasure in seeing it's downfall. Not saying you @MeHateHe.

Yeah, I never saw that as coming my way, but I have thoughts. It isn't that I have vitriol for the BCHL, but I don't like how this shook out. It's bad for hockey in Canada when there's disunity. It's bad that not all players/coaches/officials are available for high performance programs. Is this all the league's fault? Not by a long shot. Hockey Canada carries some of the culpability too. I'm not sure where the happy medium between the two sides is - the national federation has to consider the needs of all of its branches and of the needs of individual players, but it's fair to say that the BCHL is a cut above most of the other Junior A leagues, so I can completely understand why they would bristle at being treated the same as (for example) a weak maritime league while the WHL gets a lot more leeway.

I've been peripherally around the league and its members for the better part of thirty years - at least until a couple of years ago. I've met/spoken with a few of the governors and I am aware that there are some strong egos there. Their PR statements about this being driven by the good of the game in BC and BC players is a bit hard to take. They're businessmen trying to protect their business, and that's as it should be. Hockey Canada's stance limits them and they don't like it.

My preference is that the two sides hug it out and figure something out. The game is better when everyone is on the same side. Strength in numbers and all that.

 

[Bubbles]

Yeah, I never saw that as coming my way, but I have thoughts. It isn't that I have vitriol for the BCHL, but I don't like how this shook out. It's bad for hockey in Canada when there's disunity. It's bad that not all players/coaches/officials are available for high performance programs. Is this all the league's fault? Not by a long shot. Hockey Canada carries some of the culpability too. I'm not sure where the happy medium between the two sides is - the national federation has to consider the needs of all of its branches and of the needs of individual players, but it's fair to say that the BCHL is a cut above most of the other Junior A leagues, so I can completely understand why they would bristle at being treated the same as (for example) a weak maritime league while the WHL gets a lot more leeway.

I've been peripherally around the league and its members for the better part of thirty years - at least until a couple of years ago. I've met/spoken with a few of the governors and I am aware that there are some strong egos there. Their PR statements about this being driven by the good of the game in BC and BC players is a bit hard to take. They're businessmen trying to protect their business, and that's as it should be. Hockey Canada's stance limits them and they don't like it.

My preference is that the two sides hug it out and figure something out. The game is better when everyone is on the same side. Strength in numbers and all that.

Agree with you 100%. I wish both would come together and work to better opportunities for Canadian players in Canada. And the AJHL teams leaving to join BC is more indicative that they agree more with BCHL's model than Hockey Canada's.

 

[MeHateHe]

Agree with you 100%. I wish both would come together and work to better opportunities for Canadian players in Canada. And the AJHL teams leaving to join BC is more indicative that they agree more with BCHL's model than Hockey Canada's.

That's one way of looking at it. The 11 (now 12) AJHL teams that stayed behind clearly didn't agree. The essence of what the BCHL wanted would have been detrimental to a lot of other branches under Hockey Canada because it would have allowed more of their elite players to leave home and go to BC. (It's also potentially bad from a childhood development point of view, but that's a broader problem.)

The impossible choice that Hockey Canada had was how do you account for the needs of the elite while still serving everyone else - and it's the everyone else part who by and large pay the freight, because numbers-wise, they're the largest bloc. I don't know how to square that circle - I think it's fair that the BCHL has developed itself into something better than most other Junior A leagues in the country, but we don't have a Junior A+ category.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843270414518096015

About 28 minutes in

 

[Takuto Maruki]

The vitriol some people here have for the BCHL is...surprising. What did the league do to you personally? Not sure why they take pleasure in seeing it's downfall. Not saying you @MeHateHe.

Personally? I have no vitriol for the BCHL either, considering I've tried to follow major junior hockey specifically when I lived my first half of life in BC, and especially more so now that I live in Manitoba.

I guess I just don't see much of a plan for the BCHL, and the rebelling teams from the AJHL, now that their one trump card is pretty much eroded away. And like MeHateHe said, it's a raw deal for the rest of the country when one pretty major player has enough clout to essentially make everyone else cannon fodder for their plans. It puts Hockey Canada in a terrible position of trying to appeal to said major player, and then everyone else.